St Francis de Sales on “detachment”

[mary15]

I thought we were supposed to be helping each other.

Thanks for posting this! I too am in need of people and I think this is why God saw fit to make Eve, right? We are not all made to be all alone, and even priests have the solace of each other while living in community, as well as the fellowship of parishioners.

The first-century Christians as written about in the book of Acts, fellowshipped all together every day.

In today’s world, we have mass, bible studies, fish fries, and other parish activities to build up the faithful and to encourage one another.

If we are to rely only on God, then why do we find comfort in the love of family and of friends and of a spouse?

Does St Alphonsus mean that we are better off as hermits, who serve God alone?

Serious question.

I mean, there is something in the NT about it being better to not marry, yet as I already stated, even priests are most often not alone but have each other in community.

Quite frankly as I write this, I am in need of a hug actually, and am not liking this pandemic isolation during rough patches where I need to have some fellowshipping!

And what about pets? I have none, but even my priest has a beloved pet dog, who is his constant companion and friend!!

I found this cute image on the net and wonder how much is this priest engaged in detachment if he’s attached to his beloved pet? And is that wrong?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[TominAdelaide]

Quite frankly as I write this, I am in need of a hug actually, and am not liking this pandemic isolation during rough patches where I need to have some fellowshipping!

I have always loved this quote from Aristotle:

“Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that precedes the individual. Anyone who either cannot lead the common life or is so self-sufficient as not to need to, and therefore does not partake of society, is either a beast or a god.”

― Aristotle, Politics

And sorry to hear you are suffering from isolation during the COVID lockdown. Will say a Rosary and a Divine Mercy Chaplet for your intentions tonight and will arrange a Mass to be said for your intentions too

 

[mary15]

@TominAdelaide Can you answer my or Tommy’s query about being alone and acting like we should not need each other because it’s all about rising above our flesh and needing God only?

People who are religious or consecrated often have each other as well as pets!!

Even my priest enjoys a nice car and a cute dog and lives with others.

It’s not fair then for him to demand it seems that I focus only on my love of God.

My only clue is that he’s trying to prepare me, for something…vows? just to have a deeper walk?

I don’t know.

I don’t even have plants or goldfish!!

 

[TominAdelaide]

@TominAdelaide Can you answer my or Tommy’s query about being alone and acting like we should not need each other because it’s all about rising above our flesh and needing God only?

Oh I should apologise about the quote I posted, I didn’t realise this quote would be interpreted to mean that we can’t rely on family, friends, spouses etc in a time of crisis (as I thought that was a given). I have always interpreted St Alphonsus’ sermon to mean that we should first turn to God in prayer when we are in a crisis and ask for His help and blessing and then use any and all the different types of human helps that are at our disposal, such as family, friends, spouses, doctors, specialists, spiritual directors, etc. I think St Alphonsus implies this in the last sentence of paragraph 18 when he says “all good all help must come from the Lord. Without him creatures can give us no assistance.” By this he means without God’s blessing on our life, even our friends, relatives, etc will be of no assistance because we won’t have God’s blessing on our life (cf. “apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)). I also interpreted St Alphonsus’ sermon to mean that God is offended if we turn to sin to solve our problems too. For example, let’s say I’m going through a hard time and start taking hard drugs (eg methamphetamines) or drinking a bottle of whiskey a day to solve my problems. God doesn’t want me to turn to sin to solve my problems. Obviously, God also wants us to return Him thanks when we have been delivered from a trial too which would be based on the parable of the 10 lepers who were healed, and only 1 returned to give thanks (cf. Luke 17:11-19). Once again, thanks for bringing this quote to my attention and I will make sure I’m more careful about the quotes I post in the future. God Bless!

 

[TominAdelaide]

Also, on a personal note, despite the fact that I live a single life in the world, I do have social contact too! I speak every day to a Catholic friend of mine who also leads a single life in the world. My mother lives near me so we usually go out to dinner once a week (although not since the coronavirus as all the restaurants and cafes are closed!) During the school holidays my mother and I take my nephew to the movies or go ten-pin bowling, and during the school term I usually have a kick of soccer with my nephew after school once or twice a week during the winter months and over the summer months we have a hit of table tennis at my mother’s house. So yes, I do have social contact too!

 

[TominAdelaide]

My only clue is that he’s trying to prepare me, for something…vows? just to have a deeper walk?

If you are interested in making a vow of chastity, I would highly recommend reading “The Mystery of Love for the Single: A guide for those who follow the single vocation in the world” by Fr Dominic Unger. It’s basically a book of spiritual direction for Catholics living the single vocation in the world. It has the nihil obstat and imprimatur. Fr Unger also drafted a sample vow on page 63 that can be used to make the vow of chastity (which was the vow I used when I made my vow of perpetual chastity) which reads:

Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, I now dedicate (by a vow) my whole person, body and soul, to You as my Divine Spouse, to live in perfect chastity for …. years (my whole life), that I may please You more perfectly by a holy life, that I may enjoy more intimate and intense happiness with You in the glorious life of heaven, and that I may be able to help a greater number of fellow men to procure for themselves a peaceful life on earth and everlasting happiness in heaven. Amen.

The book can be purchased either as a paperback or ebook:

https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Love-Single-Follow-Vocation/dp/0895558246

https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Love.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

 

[tommy37]

Tom,

Thank you once again for clearing things up for me! The spiritual writers are not saying it’s wrong to turn to others for help, just that it won’t always be there for us, whereas God always will. It is Ok and normal to seek some help and consolation from our loved ones but they will only be able to help us to a point. And that God needs to be our main source of comfort. Yes, I can see now that it is exactly as Fr. Gabriel says. It is true.

There are many times when my wife just doesn’t know what to do or say to help me through my struggles. She just doesn’t always understand. She tries but sometimes she’s just too tired. Inevitably, I’m left alone with God as I pour out my fears and my thoughts to Him. Sometimes, she’s already in bed for the night when I’m having a hard time and all I have is God and I just start praying to Him and usually within a short time, I start to calm down and see things a little more clearly. “Pure suffering” is something I’ve not heard of. That is very interesting! Once again, thank you for the insights!

 

[tommy37]

Mary15,

From what I’m gathering from my own readings and from Tom’s insights, it would seem that like everything in life, it’s a matter of balance. There’s a time for gathering together and sharing with friends and family and a time for being alone with and leaning upon God alone. As I recall, at least if my memory serves correctly, even in St. Therese’s convent there were times for sharing together with the other sisters. And St. Faustina (and other saints) had their spiritual directors for guidance. I think we are supposed to enjoy our relationships with those God has put into our lives. It’s just that they shouldn’t become our main focus. Admittedly, it seems to me to be somewhat difficult to know if we are putting too much attachment on creatures or created things and not enough on God. I don’t really know the answer to your question about your priest and his beloved dog friend. Maybe our intrepid guide Tom can help us answer that one!

Also I’m sorry to hear of your loneliness amid the virus lockdowns. It is so difficult, my heart goes out to you and everyone who is suffering from this great cross. I’m sad for all those in nursing homes. My mom is in a nursing home and we have not been able to visit her for weeks now. She has Alzheimer’s and thankfully she’s at the point where she is more calm and sort of out of it so she’s doing pretty well, but I’m very sad for the millions of other souls who are in isolation whether in nursing homes or just stuck in their own homes. I’m particularly sad for those who are already suffering from depression and anxiety and are now alone.

Anyway, God bless you and you are in my prayers!

 

[tommy37]

Tom,

What do the spiritual writers say about attachments to created things? And what exactly is an attachment? I’ve heard it explained that it is anything that we just can’t do without (something that we are almost addicted to.) But by that definition, can’t even good things be attachments? For instance, we are supposed to do things like enjoy our leisure time. So if I get used to doing something fun on Sundays, like playing softball with friends and I begin look forward to that and think about it during the week, is that an attachment? Should I stop playing softball?

We are supposed to seek beauty, and if I enjoy listening to beautiful music that is good because it lifts my soul to God. But if I do it everyday and look forward to it, am I attached to that music and the feelings that it gives me? Should I then aim to go without it here and there so as to detach? Sometimes I get the feeling that everything is an attachment (or can be) and unless we are just sitting alone in our room with the Bible and a couple of other spiritual books we are just attached.

And what about our pets as Mary15 said regarding her priest’s dog? I mean obviously, the people who spend a gazillion dollars on pampering their pets are more attached than the average pet owner but do they say anything about potential attachments to pets?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Katie777]

Yes I do
I love Jesus and by Hiscross I would offer this
.Fast or intermittant fast. Self mortifacton by gym or excercise.
This is what Opus Dei recommends. You work for God.
If you have a solid sd ask what else you can do for Our lord Jesus Christ daily. It’s different for all

Love your sister in Christ
Katie

 

[TominAdelaide]

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

I think Fr Gabriel of St Mary Magdalen in “Divine Intimacy” summaries detachment well in the following:

“The doctrine of total detachment does not require that everyone abandon all things materially, but that each one, in whatever surroundings he finds himself, know how to keep his heart free from all [disordered] attachment.”

“This is why St John of the Cross insists: “In order to enjoy everything [that is, to enjoy God, who is everything], do not seek to enjoy anything [do not desire any inordinate pleasure].””

Father Gabriel then quotes St Paul:

This is the teaching of St Paul: “Let those who have wives be as if they had none … those who buy, as though they possessed not, and those who use the world, as if they used it not” (1 Cor 7:29-31)

Note for the scrupulous: Fr Gabriel in the quotes above is talking about “disordered” and “inordinate” attachments, not healthy and reasonable attachments we have such as with our family and friends, jobs, homes etc.

In terms of how we spend our time, what we buy and how we spend our money, etc all these things fall into the area of the “prudential judgments” each Christian has to make on a daily basis. We should constantly ask God for His gifts of wisdom, counsel, knowledge etc so that we always have healthy attachments and as Fr Anthony Paone notes in “My Daily Bread”: “If we have honestly done our best and followed the commandments of Christ, we shall be rewarded with the perfect life of Heaven.”

With regard to pets, Fr Spirago talks about this in the “Catechism Explained”:

OUR CONDUCT IN REGARD TO THE LOWER ANIMALS.

The lower animals are created by God for the service of man.

The benefits we derive from the animals are these: They supply us with what is essential to life, e.g., food, clothing, etc; they help us in our work, they cheer us by their amusing ways, their song, their beauty, etc. Some instruct us by their example; bees, for instance, incite us to industry, storks to filial affection, sheep to the practice of patience, etc. Moreover they all proclaim the omnipotence, the wisdom, the bounty of their Creator.

In our relations to animals it is our duty to care for their well-being, to refrain from tormenting them, not to kill any useful animal without a special reason, and finally not to treat them with exaggerated tenderness.

continued….

 

[TominAdelaide]

We ought to take care for the well-being of animals. “The just regardeth the lives of his beasts, but the bowels of the wicked are cruel” (Prov. xii. 10). Those who keep animals are bound to provide them with necessary food, to keep them clean, and in good condition. Our Lord says: “Not a sparrow shall fall on to the ground without your Father” (Matt. x. 29). This should teach us to care for the welfare of animals. Some treat brute beasts as if they had no feeling, overtaxing their powers, beating them unmercifully, not giving them enough to eat, or depriving them of the one day of rest out of the week which the law of God ordains for them (Exod. xx. 8-11). Those who have to kill animals for the table, and medical men who make experiments with them, ought to be careful to cause them no needless suffering. It is not right, either in the interests of science or for the sake of amusement, to give pain that can be avoided. Wanton cruelty is to be condemned; so is the destruction of harmless or useful animals. Noxious insects and dangerous animals must of course be killed, but others that are not hurtful, but rather useful, should be spared. Finally, animals are not to be pampered and petted over much. There are people who make an idol of some pet animal, preferring it to their fellow-man, and devoting every thought to it. Such persons resemble the ancient Egyptians, who worshipped cats, calves, bulls, etc.

Men who are either cruel to animals or ridiculously fond of them, often are very hard-hearted towards their fellow-men.

[Some] children who take pleasure in teasing animals torment men when they are grown up. [Some] who were tyrants in after years, were cruel to animals in their youth. Criminals have sometimes confessed upon the scaffold that their course of crime began with torturing animals as children. On the other hand we often find people who pamper and show great affection for animals, utterly hard-hearted in regard to their neighbors.

Both extremes, cruelty to animals and foolish fondness for them, are at variance with the order that God has established in the universe.

To torture animals wantonly is an abuse of the sovereignty given to man by the Creator over the brute creation. Man thus becomes a tyrant, and sometimes it pleases God to make him suffer in the same way wherein he made beasts suffer. For instance, a peasant who used to strike his horses on a tender part of the foot, causing them intense pain, was later on crippled by gout in the feet, being confined to his bed for years. He then acknowledged and deplored his fault. Exaggerated fondness and solicitude for animals is also a violation of the appointed order of nature.

continued….

 

[TominAdelaide]

Fr Spirago notes that some animals instruct us by their example. In my own study of the Bible I have also found some examples: the ant (industriousness), the lion (courage, fortitude) the donkey (endurance), the conie (finding strength in God during a time of trial) (the conie is a small mammal which lives on rock outcrops):

Proverbs 6:6: Go to the ant, you lazybones; consider its ways, and be wise.

Proverbs 30:25: the ants are a people without strength, yet they provide their food in the summer.

Proverbs 30:30: The lion, which is mightiest among wild animals, and does not turn back before any.

Genesis 49:14: Issachar is a strong donkey, lying down between the sheepfolds.

Proverbs 30:26. The conies are but a feeble folk, yet make they their houses in the rocks. [“That rock was Christ.” (1 Cor. 10:4); (“Enter into the rock.” (Isaiah 2:10)]

 

[TominAdelaide]

“Pure suffering” is something I’ve not heard of

One example of this is when Jesus cried out on the Cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mk 15:34). Although, as Pope St John Paul II notes, this was not the cry of a man without hope! This is from John Paul II’s apostolic letter “Novo Millenio Ineunte” (At the beginning of the new millennium) at no. 25-27:

http://www.vatican.va/content/john-...p-ii_apl_20010106_novo-millennio-ineunte.html

A face of sorrow

1. In contemplating Christ’s face, we confront the most paradoxical aspect of his mystery, as it emerges in his last hour, on the Cross. The mystery within the mystery, before which we cannot but prostrate ourselves in adoration.

The intensity of the episode of the agony in the Garden of Olives passes before our eyes. Oppressed by foreknowledge of the trials that await him, and alone before the Father, Jesus cries out to him in his habitual and affectionate expression of trust: “Abba, Father”. He asks him to take away, if possible, the cup of suffering (cf. Mk 14:36). But the Father seems not to want to heed the Son’s cry. In order to bring man back to the Father’s face, Jesus not only had to take on the face of man, but he had to burden himself with the “face” of sin. “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Cor 5:21).

We shall never exhaust the depths of this mystery. All the harshness of the paradox can be heard in Jesus’ seemingly desperate cry of pain on the Cross: " ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’ which means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’ " (Mk 15:34). Is it possible to imagine a greater agony, a more impenetrable darkness? In reality, the anguished “why” addressed to the Father in the opening words of the Twenty-second Psalm expresses all the realism of unspeakable pain; but it is also illumined by the meaning of that entire prayer, in which the Psalmist brings together suffering and trust, in a moving blend of emotions. In fact the Psalm continues: “In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you set them free … Do not leave me alone in my distress, come close, there is none else to help” (Ps 22:5,12).

continued….

 

[TominAdelaide]

1. Jesus’ cry on the Cross, dear Brothers and Sisters, is not the cry of anguish of a man without hope, but the prayer of the Son who offers his life to the Father in love, for the salvation of all. At the very moment when he identifies with our sin, “abandoned” by the Father, he “abandons” himself into the hands of the Father. His eyes remain fixed on the Father. Precisely because of the knowledge and experience of the Father which he alone has, even at this moment of darkness he sees clearly the gravity of sin and suffers because of it. He alone, who sees the Father and rejoices fully in him, can understand completely what it means to resist the Father’s love by sin. More than an experience of physical pain, his Passion is an agonizing suffering of the soul. Theological tradition has not failed to ask how Jesus could possibly experience at one and the same time his profound unity with the Father, by its very nature a source of joy and happiness, and an agony that goes all the way to his final cry of abandonment. The simultaneous presence of these two seemingly irreconcilable aspects is rooted in the fathomless depths of the hypostatic union.
2. Faced with this mystery, we are greatly helped not only by theological investigation but also by that great heritage which is the “lived theology” of the saints. The saints offer us precious insights which enable us to understand more easily the intuition of faith, thanks to the special enlightenment which some of them have received from the Holy Spirit, or even through their personal experience of those terrible states of trial which the mystical tradition describes as the “dark night”. Not infrequently the saints have undergone something akin to Jesus’ experience on the Cross in the paradoxical blending of bliss and pain. In the Dialogue of Divine Providence , God the Father shows Catherine of Siena how joy and suffering can be present together in holy souls: “Thus the soul is blissful and afflicted: afflicted on account of the sins of its neighbour, blissful on account of the union and the affection of charity which it has inwardly received. These souls imitate the spotless Lamb, my Only-begotten Son, who on the Cross was both blissful and afflicted”.13 In the same way, Thérèse of Lisieux lived her agony in communion with the agony of Jesus, “experiencing” in herself the very paradox of Jesus’s own bliss and anguish: “In the Garden of Olives our Lord was blessed with all the joys of the Trinity, yet his dying was no less harsh. It is a mystery, but I assure you that, on the basis of what I myself am feeling, I can understand something of it”.14 What an illuminating testimony! Moreover, the accounts given by the Evangelists themselves provide a basis for this intuition on the part of the Church of Christ’s consciousness when they record that, even in the depths of his pain, he died imploring forgiveness for his executioners (cf. Lk 23:34) and expressing to the Father his ultimate filial abandonment: “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit” (Lk 23:46).

 

[tommy37]

I think Fr Gabriel of St Mary Magdalen in “Divine Intimacy” summaries detachment well in the following:

“The doctrine of total detachment does not require that everyone abandon all things materially, but that each one, in whatever surroundings he finds himself, know how to keep his heart free from all [disordered] attachment.”

This helps, thanks! Although I still wonder about something like playing a game that is good for leisure but that you find yourself looking forward to and thinking about. Is that becoming a “disordered” attachment, or is the “disordered” referring to something sinful? Or does this fall into the “prudential judgment” category? Something that there is not necessarily a right or wrong answer to but something that we must discern over time?

This whole summary about animals is very interesting! Thanks for that!

 

[tommy37]

Tom, Thanks for this too!

 

[TominAdelaide]

I still wonder about something like playing a game that is good for leisure but that you find yourself looking forward to and thinking about. Is that becoming a “disordered” attachment, or is the “disordered” referring to something sinful? Or does this fall into the “prudential judgment” category? Something that there is not necessarily a right or wrong answer to but something that we must discern over time?

We can have a “disordered” attachment to things that are morally licit. In terms of thinking about looking forward to something, it would depend on how much you are thinking about it and how much you are looking forward to it, but as I’m not a theologian, I don’t want to say any more than that and give you bad advice! If you are interested Fr Gabriel of St Mary Magdalen goes into these questions in great detail in “Divine Intimacy” in Chapters 79-82 and 100-102 you could check out or you could start a thread with this question on Catholic Answers Forums and see what answers you can get!

Divine Intimacy:

Chapter 79: Voluntary attachments

Chapter 80: The essence of detachment

Chapter 81: The way of the “nothing”

Chapter 82: Rules for Detachment

Chapter 100: Sin

Chapter 101: Venial Sin

Chapter 102: Imperfections

 

[TominAdelaide]

And what about our pets as Mary15 said regarding her priest’s dog? I mean obviously, the people who spend a gazillion dollars on pampering their pets are more attached than the average pet owner but do they say anything about potential attachments to pets?

Also, another point with regard to pets, my mother was minding my sister’s cat when my sister went to work in England. When I was at my mother’s house, I would see my sister’s cat sitting in the sun looking relaxed, happy and contented, etc. From a theological perspective, it wouldn’t be right if our cats and dogs, etc were happier and more contented than their owners were (given that animals aren’t made in the image and likeness of God with a rational soul and will not be living with God for all eternity in Heaven!) Christians who have “the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding” (Philippians 4:7) should be happier than their pets! (both in prosperity and adversity!) Although I suppose the point could be made that animals still glorify God by their natural life and have a truly natural happiness to the extent that their nature permits….

 

[tommy37]

In terms of thinking about looking forward to something, it would depend on how much you are thinking about it and how much you are looking forward to it, but as I’m not a theologian, I don’t want to say any more than that and give you bad advice! If you are interested Fr Gabriel of St Mary Magdalen goes into these questions in great detail in “Divine Intimacy” in Chapters 79-82 and 100-102 you could check out or you could start a thread with this question on Catholic Answers Forums and see what answers you can get!

I understand. Sorry to press you. I’ve just always wondered about that. I am interested in the book Divine Intimacy. I’ve known about it for years, I just never purchased it. Maybe the time has come. Thanks for posting those chapter headings. It sounds good! Maybe I will start a thread on that.