St. Louis Archdiocese cutting ties with Girl Scouts

[ProVobis]

I am surprised that very few people realize that I am an Orc

Is that some organization against trans fats?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Sy Noe - look what I found! The Back to Nature brand makes a peanut butter cookie that is very similar to GS and they also make a thin mint cookie.

amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_10/188-9479671-2100537?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=thin+mint+cookies&sprefix=thin+Mint+%2Cgrocery%2C273&rh=n%3A16310101%2Ck%3Athin+mint+cookies

If you try any, you’ll have to let me know if there are any good thin mint cookies alternatives.

Thanks Lax. I would have to try to do math and see the difference in cost or somehow determine the number of cookies in 6 pks for over $35. The GS were $4 box for 2 sleeves. But already threw the box to know ounces, # of cookies and so forth. I’ve satisfied my taste for the time being but if I do try, will try to remember to let you know if it’s not too far into the future.

Btw I only thought the GS were being touted as anti Catholic because another poster said organizations that GSUSA promotes and partners with are in conflict with Catholic values and is especially troubling in regards to abortion and contraception.

 

[lax16]

Thanks Lax. I would have to try to do math and see the difference in cost or somehow determine the number of cookies in 6 pks for over $35. The GS were $4 box for 2 sleeves. But already threw the box to know ounces, # of cookies and so forth. I’ve satisfied my taste for the time being but if I do try, will try to remember to let you know if it’s not too far into the future.

Btw I only thought the GS were being touted as anti Catholic because another poster said organizations that GSUSA promotes and partners with are in conflict with Catholic values and is especially troubling in regards to abortion and contraception.

Amazon is more expensive than grocery stores for the same product so it may not be worth it, however next time you pass a Whole Foods it might be worth a look.

I appreciate that. I am a bit food obsessed!

I would have to read up on GS to see what they are all about. I thought I heard they gave money to Planned Parenthood but I have not verified that.

 

[7_Sorrows]

:doh2: Although I thought Sy too would be associated with a male. Short for Seymour or Simon or something.

Don’t laugh or be offended - but if you scramble the letters I get nosey!

there used to be a poster here - beau ouville
(bow weevil) so I play around with letters. I would never have associated Sy with Seymour or Simon.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Amazon is more expensive than grocery stores for the same product so it may not be worth it, however next time you pass a Whole Foods it might be worth a look.

I appreciate that. I am a bit food obsessed!

I would have to read up on GS to see what they are all about. I thought I heard they gave money to Planned Parenthood but I have not verified that.

I also thought I heard they gave to Planned Parenthood which is why I didn’t buy any the other day at Wal-Mart when approached.

 

[commenter]

The problem with the Girls Scouts is not just what they explicitly teach, but what they take for granted. The idea that accepting gay marriage sort of goes along with** accepting** persons of all races. The view that of course abstinence is the preferred way of avoiding disease and unwanted pregnancy (but because we accept persons, therefore these back up plans are also needed).

They don’t criticize spirituality, they encourage spirituality - but spirituality means each person defines their own religion, and it is prejudice to say one religion is truer than another.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Don’t laugh or be offended - but if you scramble the letters I get nosey!

there used to be a poster here - beau ouville
(bow weevil) so I play around with letters. I would never have associated Sy with Seymour or Simon.

No offense taken.

 

[7_Sorrows]

No offense taken.

thank you. :tiphat:

 

[losh14]

So this is our Archbishop, and this was his letter, and I’m very concerned he’s making the right decision on the wrong research. Our local Girl Scouts affiliate, Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri, has published a response to address his concerns (girlscoutsem.org/About-Us/Truth-of-the-Matter.aspx).

I have had relatives who say Girls Scouts overall has concerns, but “here in our parish” the women who run the troop are faithful Catholics. The problem is that the leaders in the troop inevitably pass along some of the secularistic slant, not intentionally but in various materials; the girls in the parish troop get information from the Girl Scouts that does not get filtered by the Troop; girls in the parish troop often participate in larger regional activities with other troops that are more open to the secularistic influences. As girls grow older, some will identify more with the Girl Scout priorities long after they stop seeing the innocent parish ladies who led the parish troop.

Our parish is similar - our parish troops are run by parishoners and meetings take place on parish grounds. This is not a case of a non-Catholic coming on-site and handing out “Our Bodies, Ourselves”. If concern is that secular materials get in front of our girls, then we need to assert censor rights. I’m a fan of engaging rather than throwing out the entire organization, and being up-front with the affiliate if there are some materials we won’t accept and they simply need to work with us.

Our Archbishop’s decision (that’s his letter!) to disband the committee that was a liaison with the Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri kinda hamstrings any effort to engage diocese-wide with the GESM. That’s a shame, I think, and while I don’t think he would have taken the step unless there were some specific reason, I’ve heard no complaints - at least publicly - from anyone about the Girl Scouts except for the Archbishop.

Girl Scout troops are different. Essentially the parish grants space to the group. It has no influence on the group.

I think this approach invites trouble - the parish and its grounds and time belong to the parish, the parish should be able to say what to do with it.

"Organizations that GSUSA promotes and partners with are conflict with Catholic values, such as Amnesty International, Coalition for Adolescent Girls, OxFam and more. This is especially troubling in regards to sex education and advocacy for “reproductive rights” (i.e. abortion and contraceptive access, even for minors).

Again, I don’t agree with this disengagement. Amnesty does a lot of good things that the Church agrees with - calling attention to human rights abuse, working to end sex trafficking, calling for protection of journalists - and a handful it doesn’t - push for access to contraception and abortion. We can, and should, praise the good that organizations do and call them to our Way. Severing ties with them, and with anyone who works with them, is pure isolationism.

I also thought I heard they gave to Planned Parenthood which is why I didn’t buy any the other day at Wal-Mart when approached.

Some councils and Associations do. Our local association, GESM, doesn’t. They state so on their website. I don’t understand why our Archbishop is concerned about a partnership that doesn’t exist.

The problem with the Girls Scouts is not just what they explicitly teach, but what they take for granted. The idea that accepting gay marriage sort of goes along with** accepting** persons of all races. The view that of course abstinence is the preferred way of avoiding disease and unwanted pregnancy (but because we accept persons, therefore these back up plans are also needed).

Are your daughters taught sex ed in your Girl Scout Troop?

They don’t criticize spirituality, they encourage spirituality - but spirituality means each person defines their own religion, and it is prejudice to say one religion is truer than another.

If they = international organization, then I think our parish organization trumps that and we should teach Catholic spirituality to the Girl Scouts that meet at our parish.

 

[commenter]

So this is our Archbishop, and this was his letter, and I’m very concerned he’s making the right decision on the wrong research. Our local Girl Scouts affiliate, Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri, has published a response to address his concerns (girlscoutsem.org/About-Us/Truth-of-the-Matter.aspx).
(end quote)
Commenter:
In their response, the Girl Scouts claim to be a secular organization. Yet they urge Catholics to oppose their own archbishop, offer sample letters to lobby against the Catholic Church. They don’t lobby against any other religious body. Why not? It is hard to perceive them as “neutral” on religion.
losh14;13699597:

If concern is that secular materials get in front of our girls, then we need to assert censor rights. I’m a fan of engaging rather than throwing out the entire organization, and being up-front with the affiliate if there are some materials we won’t accept and they simply need to work with us.

Catholic and evangelical churches have struggled for over 40 years with GSA’s secularism. There have been constant attempts to compromise, reassurance that no objectionable materials will be used. But why should the Church keep trying to connect with anyone where you need to exercise “censor rights”? There are other comparable alternatives for girls where the Church does not need to exercise “censor rights”, and in fact are far more supportive of Catholic values. Even if you could prove that a public school were “harmless”, why not switch over to a Catholic school (or scouting entity) if that is available? I know there are Catholics leading in scout troops, just as there are Catholics working in the public school. That does not mean the secular school, or scout troop, is comparable to a Christian one.

Our Archbishop’s decision (that’s his letter!) to disband the committee that was a liaison with the Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri kinda hamstrings any effort to engage diocese-wide with the GESM. That’s a shame, I think, and while I don’t think he would have taken the step unless there were some specific reason, I’ve heard no complaints - at least publicly - from anyone about the Girl Scouts except for the Archbishop.

Catholics and Protestants across the country have found major problems with GSA, with no progress after 40 years. It takes an enormous amount of time trying to monitor and censor an agency that itself, claims to be secular. Why not engage a Christian alternative instead, that doesn’t need censoring?

Amnesty does a lot of good things that the Church agrees with - calling attention to human rights abuse, working to end sex trafficking, calling for protection of journalists - and a handful it doesn’t - push for access to contraception and abortion.

No comment needed. There are Christian scouting alternatives that support prolife efforts, Why doesn’t GSA do that? Which one would you want in your parish?

If they = international organization, then I think our parish organization trumps that and we should teach Catholic spirituality to the Girl Scouts that meet at our parish.

Is it more feasible to teach Catholic Spirituality with an agency that is hostile to Catholicism at worse, and harmless at best - or instead, to utilize a Christian scouting group instead?

 

[commenter]

This movement is being promoted by a Catholic parish near me.

americanheritagegirls.org/

It offers many advantages that the GSA does not have.

 

[pnewton]

To be fair, while he is cutting ties with Girl Scouts, they haven’t cut ties with Girl Scouts. The action is a little more nuanced than kicking the Girl Scouts out of every parish. The diocese is immediately changing the committee that deals with the Girl Scouts to a search for alternatives, but that is about the only immediate change. I suspect it will take a year or two until the last diocese no longer has them on the premises.

On the other hand, I note that the one mother they quoted misses the point entirely. This is not some macho move that is threatened by feminism. It is a straightforward conflict between Catholic teaching and two organizations that are affiliate with the Girl Scouts.

Personally, I have never been a fan of turning tail and running, but I understand that we have to do things differently when dealing with children. I believe our government has lost its moral center. I understand the desire to throw in towel on politics. But when we only leave the worst of people to be remain involved in any organization, it only gets worse.

 

[edwest2]

The radical feminists want girls to believe what they believe, and men, they say, are a threat to women. So sad that this “class warfare” was promoted so heavily by people like Gloria Steinem (co-founder of Ms. magazine, the source of that divisive word).

And now girls are being taught that birth control and abortion are no big deal or good. As Catholics, we need to keep telling girls the truth about families.

Ed

 

[commenter]

To be fair, while he is cutting ties with Girl Scouts, they haven’t cut ties with Girl Scouts. The action is a little more nuanced than kicking the Girl Scouts out of every parish. The diocese is immediately changing the committee that deals with the Girl Scouts to a search for alternatives, but that is about the only immediate change. I suspect it will take a year or two until the last diocese no longer has them on the premises.

There are good people serving GSA in parishes. Most of the people in the movement do not necessarily endorse everything the national or regional affiliates of GSA promote. That said, this is better:

americanheritagegirls.org/

It was started by Christian women who had a background in Girl Scouts, but disagreed with the secular direction in recent decades. It is not a criticism of the good leaders currently serving GSA in parishes; just providing them something better to work with. Catholic churches such as St. Louis are not so much throwing out the Girl Scouts and their heritage, they are seeking alternatives that maintain the original Girl Scout heritage, and also build on Catholic youth ministry.

 

[pnewton]

It was started by Christian women who had a background in Girl Scouts, but disagreed with the secular direction in recent decades. It is not a criticism of the good leaders currently serving GSA in parishes; just providing them something better to work with. Catholic churches such as St. Louis are not so much throwing out the Girl Scouts and their heritage, they are seeking alternatives that maintain the original Girl Scout heritage, and also build on Catholic youth ministry.

I hope it works for them. I am unfamiliar with the girl side of scouting, so I do not know the down sides. The upside seems rather obvious.

With boys, there is still the benefit that one gains on scholarships and resumes for have that Eagle Scout, or Life Scout added.

 

[CradleJourney]

I am surprised that very few people realize that I am an Orc

We know - we’re just being polite and letting you come out of the cave when you’re ready.

Re: Girl Scouts.

Have tried it twice with two of my daughters and found the whole program to be well…unimpressive, uninteresting, unchallenging, and with way too much drama from the other moms.

Now Boy Scouts, I am a big fan of their program. In fact, I fully sympathize with my dd for her inability to join. I like how from even the youngest cubs they work on basic life skills and knowledge that no longer seems to be taught in school. Wish there was a way for her to do the boy scout program but with other girls.

 

[Joe_5859]

To be fair, while he is cutting ties with Girl Scouts, they haven’t cut ties with Girl Scouts. The action is a little more nuanced than kicking the Girl Scouts out of every parish. The diocese is immediately changing the committee that deals with the Girl Scouts to a search for alternatives, but that is about the only immediate change. I suspect it will take a year or two until the last diocese no longer has them on the premises.

On the other hand, I note that the one mother they quoted misses the point entirely. This is not some macho move that is threatened by feminism. It is a straightforward conflict between Catholic teaching and two organizations that are affiliate with the Girl Scouts.

Personally, I have never been a fan of turning tail and running, but I understand that we have to do things differently when dealing with children. I believe our government has lost its moral center. I understand the desire to throw in towel on politics. But when we only leave the worst of people to be remain involved in any organization, it only gets worse.

Yeah, the headline is a bit misleading. It seems he is essentially replacing the Girl Scout specific diocesan committee with a more general diocesan scouting for girls committee. He’s not ousting all Girl Scouts from the diocese.

 

[commenter]

Yeah, the headline is a bit misleading. It seems he is essentially replacing the Girl Scout specific diocesan committee with a more general diocesan scouting for girls committee. He’s not ousting all Girl Scouts from the diocese.

It’s like saying “we’re not going to deal exclusively with this one program in perpetuity. We are going to keep all our options open”. Makes sense to me.

 

[Micosil]

news.yahoo.com/catholic-churchs-disapproval-boosts-girl-scout-donations-st-215500028.html

A Catholic leader’s comments against the Girl Scouts made some supporters hungry.

After St. Louis Archbishop Robert Carlson encouraged Catholics to dissociate from the organization, The Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri broke records at their annual fundraising event, where donors munched on various sweet treats inspired by Girl Scout cookies.

The event brought in over $350,000, which tops every previous fundraiser the regional group has held, including the one that celebrated the organization’s 100th anniversary.

 

[losh14]

The view from the ground in St. Louis isn’t that we’re announcing we’ll keep options open:

It’s like saying “we’re not going to deal exclusively with this one program in perpetuity. We are going to keep all our options open”. Makes sense to me.

We already have a few Little Flowers and American Heritage Scout troops on parishes in the diocese. They don’t have nearly the exposure that the Girl Scouts do, although the two women in charge of the Committee currently work with American Heritage troops.

Our pastor has called all scout troop leaders into meetings this week, and the impression I get from them and from other parents who have Girl Scouts at their parishes is more as pnewton says:

To be fair, while he is cutting ties with Girl Scouts, they haven’t cut ties with Girl Scouts. … I suspect it will take a year or two until the last diocese no longer has them on the premises.

Our daughter’s troop leader has said she’d be open to relocating the troop off-parish grounds so that the girls would be able to stay in the same troop together.

Personally, I have never been a fan of turning tail and running, but I understand that we have to do things differently when dealing with children. I believe our government has lost its moral center. I understand the desire to throw in towel on politics. But when we only leave the worst of people to be remain involved in any organization, it only gets worse.

As Joe says, it’s a more sensational headline than the actual story:

Yeah, the headline is a bit misleading. It seems he is essentially replacing the Girl Scout specific diocesan committee with a more general diocesan scouting for girls committee. He’s not ousting all Girl Scouts from the diocese.

I’ve seen a lot of comparisons to girl scout cookies no longer being allowed for Catholics, to the point that some asked after Mass if we (Catholics) were forbidden from buying them. Bad reporting, as usual.

The news has given me occasion to unfriend a bunch of folks on Facebook who couldn’t resist poking fun at the Archbishop.