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susie_g
Guest
I am really on the fence about the death penalty. Is anyone else out there thinking that Williams should be put to death and not given clemency by Gov. Schwartzenegger?
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
susie g.:
The man killed the people he killed because they were white.
I wonder if all those people protesting on his behalf would still be out there if he had been a WHITE MAN who had killed BLACK PEOPLE because they were BLACK…
He still tells the people in the “hood” not to inform on “Gangbangers” or to otherwise assist Law Enforcement in any way when they are trying to catch these people after one of their patented “Drive-by’s” has killed still more innocent children.
Before I came back to the Lord, I went to a “Repast” for a couple of girls some of his boys had shot. I have to wonder if that girl would be alive today if this man hadn’t founded his gang and taught young men to do crimes and murder instead of work for a living.
This man had 25 years of appeals and hearings, AFTER he was convicted in a fair trial where NONE of the facts leading to his conviction are in dispute.
While he was on Death Row, he was still able to order at least one hit on an informant or a “snitch”, and yes, this has been alledged in his case.
If we are going to have the Death Penalty, this is the type of man who needs to receive it. If he doesn’t, then we need to strike the Penalty from the books… But is Life in Solitary Confinement really less onerous?
That’s my best thinking on this case, looking at the Torah and trying to follow what it says.
In Christ, Michael
Susie:
The man killed the people he killed because they were white.
I wonder if all those people protesting on his behalf would still be out there if he had been a WHITE MAN who had killed BLACK PEOPLE because they were BLACK…
He still tells the people in the “hood” not to inform on “Gangbangers” or to otherwise assist Law Enforcement in any way when they are trying to catch these people after one of their patented “Drive-by’s” has killed still more innocent children.
Before I came back to the Lord, I went to a “Repast” for a couple of girls some of his boys had shot. I have to wonder if that girl would be alive today if this man hadn’t founded his gang and taught young men to do crimes and murder instead of work for a living.
This man had 25 years of appeals and hearings, AFTER he was convicted in a fair trial where NONE of the facts leading to his conviction are in dispute.
While he was on Death Row, he was still able to order at least one hit on an informant or a “snitch”, and yes, this has been alledged in his case.
If we are going to have the Death Penalty, this is the type of man who needs to receive it. If he doesn’t, then we need to strike the Penalty from the books… But is Life in Solitary Confinement really less onerous?
That’s my best thinking on this case, looking at the Torah and trying to follow what it says.
In Christ, Michael
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Bella3502
Guest
He deserves the death penalty. And even if he didn’t, our Governor would never grant clemency. He is already in trouble with the Republican party. The Republican “ProLife” party does not include convicted felons on Death row who never even showed any remorse for those horrific murders.Times up.
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gilliam
Guest
I think it is pretty clear in the Catechism that the only reason to kill another human being is because that it the only way to protect someone else. I don’t see that in this case, so, no he should not be put to death.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
gilliam, what about the hit he ordered while in prison? Evidently he can continue his bloodthirsty career while behind bars.
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wabrams
Guest
Ani Ibi:
Definately sounds like he is an un-reformed criminal that should be put to death rather recieve clemency and spend life in prison.
Yes, such a blood thirsty individual that he hasn’t had an infraction since 1993, wrote a children’s book speaking against violence, has recieved a letter from Pres. Bush commending him for social activism, and written several anti-violence books that have been used to train police officers, social workers, etc.
Definately sounds like he is an un-reformed criminal that should be put to death rather recieve clemency and spend life in prison.
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rayne89
Guest
No I don’t believe he should be put to death. Life in prison without the possibility of parole.
And the part about Schwartzenegger not granted clemency because he is in touble with the Republicans. How does a person sleep at night if they decided whether a man lives or dies based on what their political party thinks. (By the way I am republican so this in not a political party slam.)
And the part about Schwartzenegger not granted clemency because he is in touble with the Republicans. How does a person sleep at night if they decided whether a man lives or dies based on what their political party thinks. (By the way I am republican so this in not a political party slam.)
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Tonks40
Guest
I also heard he was once nominated for the Nobel Peace PrizeYes, such a blood thirsty individual that he hasn’t had an infraction since 1993, wrote a children’s book speaking against violence, has recieved a letter from Pres. Bush commending him for social activism, and written several anti-violence books that have been used to train police officers, social workers, etc.
Definately sounds like he is an un-reformed criminal that should be put to death rather recieve clemency and spend life in prison.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Jimmy Carter won one, proof that the Nobel Peace Prize is a joke now.
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CatholicCid
Guest
Ani Ibi:
The US has full means to contain and help reform prisoners… Putting men to death because they aren’t doing it correctly is not solving the problem
Maybe a look into our Prison systems then?
The US has full means to contain and help reform prisoners… Putting men to death because they aren’t doing it correctly is not solving the problem
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wabrams
Guest
Semper Fi:
A liitle harsh, don’t you think? I’ve got a lot of respect for Carter, though he was an awful president and is getting a little ornary in the last few years. I still think the man means well and has a big heart.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I’ve gotta believe a gang member with the nickname “Tookie” will take plenty of punishment in prison, maybe it would be harsher to keep him in jail instead of killing him.
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Benedictus
Guest
Semper Fi:
Hey, Carter is a nice guy, even if he was ineffective as President and continues to be ineffective today. If you want to prove the Peace Prize is a joke, you just have to point to Yassar Arafat or the crazy lady they gave it to last year.
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Benedictus
Guest
Traditional Ang:
Three of the four were from Taiwan. Only one was “white”.
Citation please? I haven’t heard this before, and I’ve been following the case closely.
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pira114
Guest
Life is not harsh for a guy named “Tookie” in prison. He is the founder of the largest black gang in America. He has a pretty easy life in prison (at least as easy as it gets). No one disrespects him and gets away with it.
As for asking for proof that “his people” commited drive bys. I think the poster was referring to any Crip gang member as his people. Sure, if he didn’t start the gang, someone else may have, but does that excuse him from responsibility? No. The fact remains that he is responsible for numerous crimes. Not the least of which is killing four people, that we know about.
A little fact about the California Department of Corrections. It’s goal is not, and has never been, to reform or rehabilitate prisoners. It’s mission is detention. To house inmates for a prescribed period of time and protect the public from them. Several rehabilitative programs have been started in prison, but this is not the reason for it’s existence. Can the CDC protect others from Williams? Not in this case. He has the power to order hits and do business from his cell. Most prisoners in all state prisons engage in criminal activity while incarcerated. Not all have the power to affect others lives outside the prison, but Williams does. Many inmates are killed or maimed every year because of “hits” placed on them for anything from “disrespecting” someone, to a drug deal gone bad. Yes, drugs are just as easy to get in prison as they are on the street. Sometimes easier. So, can we say that Williams can be stopped from hurting innocent lives without putting him to death. I think not.
Another small detail. Williams has never renounced his role as leader of the gang. He has never expressed remorse for his crimes. He has never fully admitted the extent of his crimes. If he was truely reformed, he would have done this. Point of fact, Williams has criticized two well known gang leaders (one a Crip and one a Blood) for working together to educate school children on the dangers of being a gang member. While it may be true that he has not had in infraction for a number of years, it is well known in the prison system that high ranking members of gangs are usually required by their own by-laws to follow the rules. At least outwardly. They send secret communications to their “soldiers” to do their dirty work.
My last point. Williams was sentenced to death for what he did. Not for what he might do in the future. Remeber this, he would not have done any of the “good” things he did had he not been caught and sent to prison. Given the choice, I’m sure he would rather not have been caught. In which case, he would have continued his evil ways. It’s easy to commit a crime and “reform” after you’ve been caught. I don’t care if he found the cure for cancer, it doesn’t change what he did. It doesn’t change the fact that his actions so many years ago, still have a violent affect on the streets and in the prisons today. If you are against the death penalty period, fine. But if you want to excuse this one man just because of his good deeds after his incarceration, you’re missing the point.
If you want proof of anything I’ve said above, you won’t get it from me. I can’t give you any studies. I can’t give you any newspaper articles. I know it to be true because I live it. It’s my job.
As for asking for proof that “his people” commited drive bys. I think the poster was referring to any Crip gang member as his people. Sure, if he didn’t start the gang, someone else may have, but does that excuse him from responsibility? No. The fact remains that he is responsible for numerous crimes. Not the least of which is killing four people, that we know about.
A little fact about the California Department of Corrections. It’s goal is not, and has never been, to reform or rehabilitate prisoners. It’s mission is detention. To house inmates for a prescribed period of time and protect the public from them. Several rehabilitative programs have been started in prison, but this is not the reason for it’s existence. Can the CDC protect others from Williams? Not in this case. He has the power to order hits and do business from his cell. Most prisoners in all state prisons engage in criminal activity while incarcerated. Not all have the power to affect others lives outside the prison, but Williams does. Many inmates are killed or maimed every year because of “hits” placed on them for anything from “disrespecting” someone, to a drug deal gone bad. Yes, drugs are just as easy to get in prison as they are on the street. Sometimes easier. So, can we say that Williams can be stopped from hurting innocent lives without putting him to death. I think not.
Another small detail. Williams has never renounced his role as leader of the gang. He has never expressed remorse for his crimes. He has never fully admitted the extent of his crimes. If he was truely reformed, he would have done this. Point of fact, Williams has criticized two well known gang leaders (one a Crip and one a Blood) for working together to educate school children on the dangers of being a gang member. While it may be true that he has not had in infraction for a number of years, it is well known in the prison system that high ranking members of gangs are usually required by their own by-laws to follow the rules. At least outwardly. They send secret communications to their “soldiers” to do their dirty work.
My last point. Williams was sentenced to death for what he did. Not for what he might do in the future. Remeber this, he would not have done any of the “good” things he did had he not been caught and sent to prison. Given the choice, I’m sure he would rather not have been caught. In which case, he would have continued his evil ways. It’s easy to commit a crime and “reform” after you’ve been caught. I don’t care if he found the cure for cancer, it doesn’t change what he did. It doesn’t change the fact that his actions so many years ago, still have a violent affect on the streets and in the prisons today. If you are against the death penalty period, fine. But if you want to excuse this one man just because of his good deeds after his incarceration, you’re missing the point.
If you want proof of anything I’ve said above, you won’t get it from me. I can’t give you any studies. I can’t give you any newspaper articles. I know it to be true because I live it. It’s my job.
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Troy7
Guest
I hope Arnie gives him clemency and the death penalty is eradicated.
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Utah_Ken
Guest
I think that Williams should continue to be condemned to prison for the rest of his life. I hope that the execution is stayed.
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Utah_Ken
Guest
California Gov. Schwarzenegger rejects Stanley Tookie Williams’ request. The request to the governor was Williams’ last hope for being spared of execution, which is set to happen Tuesday morning at 12:01 a.m.
Clearly this person deserves punishment, but how to we explain to our children the difference between “American” executions and those of Iraq?
Clearly this person deserves punishment, but how to we explain to our children the difference between “American” executions and those of Iraq?
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Utah_Ken
Guest
Our nation should forgo the use of the death penalty because The sanction of death, when it is not necessary to protect society, violates respect for human life and dignity. State-sanctioned killing in our names diminishes all of us. Its application is deeply flawed and can be irreversibly wrong, is prone to errors, and is biased by factors such as race, the quality of legal representation, and where the crime was committed. We have other ways to punish criminals and protect society.
*“I have set before you life and death, the
blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you
and your descendants may live.” (Dt 30:19)
USCCB
*
*“I have set before you life and death, the
blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you
and your descendants may live.” (Dt 30:19)
USCCB
*
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cargopilot
Guest
No clemency will be granted. Yahoo News.
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