Standing for the National Anthem

[StudentMI]

I won’t stand for the American anthem personally. I find no reason to. A bunch of pious nonsense. And for those who say men died for my right to stand, they also died for my right not to stand.

“Push the button, legalize freedom.” – Dax Riggs.

 

[SuperLuigi]

So what do your parents think about your wanting to not stand? They should matter more than internet strangers.

I’m encouraged by the deference. A lot of people cannot get the help they need on the internet or on this site.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I won’t stand for the American anthem personally. I find no reason to. A bunch of pious nonsense. And for those who say men died for my right to stand, they also died for my right not to stand.

“Push the button, legalize freedom.” – Dax Riggs.

It’s pathetic that we even have to have this conversation.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Meagan34;14751874]If those reasons are your moral qualms to peacefully protest and you’ve studied them, go for it! Most people here will stand up (or sit down) for being “counter-cultural” in their beliefs and proud of it no matter who they might offend. Some sensitive stepped on toes might lead to angry or disapproving stares but, who really cares about them?

But only if its for a left-wing cause, right?

Btw, I commend you on your use of the word Native American instead of Indian.

Oh boy! The PC police are in town! :extrahappy::newidea::newidea:

Just because a guy without much sense of direction was geographically incorrect doesn’t mean we all have to be. I have many Indian (you know, like, from India) friends who are annoyed at it as well.

I think white liberals are more worried about it than we are.

Yeah, Columbus just had to GPS his way to India. :clapping:

What he accomplished was extraordinary.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=angell1;14751893]you can do whatever you want. sit if you are convinced that’s what you think you should do.

however, I have to be completely honest, the most likely impression that you will give off is that is that you’re just a disrespectful teenager who’s parents didn’t teach any manners.

your concerns with our government are valid. but that’s not what the national anthem is about. there are many things we can appreciate about our country regardless of current policies on certain issues.

:clapping:

as for the whole first nations issue. it’s a lot more complex than what you probably learned in school. I used to struggle with the same issue, so I suggest you do some extra reading on the subject

Really that complicated. First Nations to some extent lost a cultural battle, but also decided to varying degrees to integrate into what many thought was a better way for themselves and their kids.

For those who fought, well, as Canadian cultural commentator Gavin McInness noted “they fought for over 400 years against a superior force”.

That’s pretty good.

 

[exnihilo]

I won’t stand for the American anthem personally. I find no reason to. A bunch of pious nonsense. And for those who say men died for my right to stand, they also died for my right not to stand.

The men didn’t die for your rights. That is the lie told to justify their lives being wasted in service to the state. Were the Vietnamese going to take away your rights? Were they going to use their non existent navy to cross the Pacific and take away your rights? Of course not. Yet tens of thousands of American lives were lost. Millions of Vietnamese lives were lost, but we don’t even talk about that. Their lives don’t count as much because of where they were born. The same is true for every war. Even the Revolutionary War didn’t make a huge difference in your rights.

 

[John_Martin_1]

I agree about standing for our vets.

However all the disappointments you mention, which I also agree with, are not the fault of the government. They are the fault of the people. It is the people that tossed out Judeo-Christian values and adopted secularism and it’s mentality of instant gratification. The government, elected by the people, are merely reflecting those values. Canada is not alone, it is a Western phenomenon.

If we want governments to reflect Christian values, then the people must themselves hold those values. Only then will governments reflect them. Which means we must evangelize.

Canada is mission territory. As are most Western nations.

Yes, you are right. The shortcomings of the government are reflections of the shortcomings of the people.

What I should have said is that I do not stand for any of the evil ideologies of our nation, but I stand for the heroes who do still fight for good.

God bless.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Yes, you are right. The shortcomings of the government are reflections of the shortcomings of the people.

What I should have said is that I do not stand for any of the evil ideologies of our nation, but I stand for the heroes who do still fight for good.

God bless.

:yyeess:

 

[TechieGuy]

Based on my 5 minute internet review, here are my suggestions:

a) have your parents fill out whatever form that parents of Jehovah’s Witnesses fill out to indicate to the school that they have religious objections to standing for the anthem.

If they won’t or if the school doesn’t accept it, then:

b) don’t stand anyway and be prepared to become a test case

or

c) go ahead and stand

Also, have you considered actually, you know, *talking *with the teacher in whatever class you are in at this time, or if this is in general assembly, the principal, to see if they care about whether or not you stand?

Maybe it is the case that whoever is in charge will say, “Whatever, eh?”

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Yes, you are right. The shortcomings of the government are reflections of the shortcomings of the people.

What I should have said is that I do not stand for any of the evil ideologies of our nation, but I stand for the heroes who do still fight for good.

God bless.

How does this logic work? If the government is bad because the people are also bad, then why would we honor the vets who fought for that government/those people?

To put it more simply, if Country A is evil, why are we honoring County A’s soldiers who fought on behalf of an evil country? No one would say, “Well, the Third Reich was awful, but I still support those brave SS troops!”

 

[TechieGuy]

No one would say, “Well, the Third Reich was awful, but I still support those brave SS troops!”

You’d be surprised…the conversation usually then shifts to Rommel

 

[StudentMI]

The men didn’t die for your rights. That is the lie told to justify their lives being wasted in service to the state. Were the Vietnamese going to take away your rights? Were they going to use their non existent navy to cross the Pacific and take away your rights? Of course not. Yet tens of thousands of American lives were lost. Millions of Vietnamese lives were lost, but we don’t even talk about that. Their lives don’t count as much because of where they were born. The same is true for every war. Even the Revolutionary War didn’t make a huge difference in your rights.

Oh I know all that, trust me. I’m just saying if anyone used that cliche about then dying for my rights, it works both ways

And I’m glad you mentioned the Vietnamese who died in that stupid war. You’re right, no one talks about them. Or the Cambodians and the Laotians who died. Or how we supported the Khmer Rouge against Vietnam. Ugh. What a waste of life.

 

[Padres1969]

p.s. Whenever I happen to watch a Canadian-US game, the US crowd will generally stand respectfully for the Canadian anthem.

Always. Canada is the US’s greatest friend and ally along with the UK. To not stand with those who’ve been by our side (or our hat) for more than 2 centuries after our differences were put aside… would just seen wrong.

 

[Peebo]

What about the Canadian flag…would you salute your flag…or would you say it is representative of your National Anthem

 

[Phemie]

What about the Canadian flag…would you salute your flag…or would you say it is representative of your National Anthem

It’s not something civilians do in Canada. We don’t have a pledge of allegiance either.

We sing the O Canada, and that not 1/10 as much as Americans do “The Star Spangled Banner”. I don’t recall ever having had it played or sung in school when I was a kid, except maybe in preparation for Dominion Day (I was long out of school before the name for July 1st was changed to Canada Day) and on Remembrance Day.

As far as civilian events other than hockey and baseball, I have rarely heard it in the past 20 years. The only time in recent memory was as part of the Vice-regal salute when the Lieutenant-Governor comes to the final performance of our provincial adult drama festival each year and in that it’s combined with “God Save the Queen”. Of course having been 23 years a military spouse and having spent over 38 years around military bases I’ve attended my share of military events where it’s played.

 

[Viki63]

My main concern is that I could get in trouble with the school. My family can’t afford a lawyer to run a case as huge as violating Charter Rights. It could be driven all the way to the Supreme Court.
Or like that boy who did the same in Manitoba, I could get beaten up or sent to the office or lectured in the class. In this age of cell phones, I could be the school embarrassment. I could be bullied to the extreme.

Is this really the hill you want to die on?
You might want to wait until you find something more worthy of your efforts.

.

 

[Crusaderbear]

Stand, but say a silent prayer for enlightenment of the government!

 

[Athanasiy]

What do you think about Fr. Raymond’s article?
Happy birthday to you, Canada!
“Canada offers a better model on religious freedom”
cruxnow.com/commentary/2017/06/30/canada-offers-better-model-religious-freedom/

 

[philipl]

This is your warning. This is definitely a controversial topic, and if you don’t want to have any chance of being offended, please feel free to stop reading and not comment. If however you choose to keep reading, please understand a few things:

1. You don’t need to read or comment on this thread’s contents.
2. My question(s) apply to Canada only, and any other country’s laws don’t apply
3. I’m not looking to start trouble. I also want to be able to have a fair and calm discussion. Please don’t say anything you wouldn’t say in front of Jesus (He’s inside and all around you, but still)
   Now that I’m clear: the topic I’m hoping to discuss.

Canada’s National Anthem.
I am a 15 year old Canadian, and I recently became aware of the irony and hypocricy of our National Anthem. I’ll be very thorough as I’m sure many of you arent Canadian or knowledgeable about Canadian Law.

My issue is whether I need to stand for the National Anthem.

Everyone at my Catholic School stands for the National Anthem and has no issue in it. However, I have recently spent some time thinking it over, and realized a few things about it.

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

I now see 2 big issues with it. 1) majority of the population isn’t native, the only true natives are Aboriginal People’s, not us European Immigrants. No matter how many generations have passed, we are still Immigrants.

1. It’s sexist.

A 3rd reason why I don’t want to stand for it anymore is that we have treated our Aboriginal Peoples horribly, we as a country do nothing to fight ISIS directly (Trudeau called the air strikes off) and I could go on.

For these reasons, I don’t want to stand for the National Anthem. Feel free to argue w me, but it’s my opinion.

I feel that I am respecting our vets and the country by not standing for an anthem that is so flawed, and doesn’t represent Canadians.

Now to the legality:
School Board Policy claims that the Ontario Education act insists that students must stand. I have scanned the act, and haven’t found any provision that does so directly, but I could be wrong.

But, as Ontario is a Province, not the Federal Gov, it has power over School Boards, Education and policies related to that under the Confederation Act of 1867.

Ontario doesn’t have power over Religion, so neither do School Boards or Schools.

The Federal Gov could change that, but it would 1) take forever and 2) not happen under the current Liberal Gov.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is clear:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Canada

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
I’ll note that this charter is Federal Law, not Provincial.

Based on this, I believe that I cannot be forced to stand for O Canada if I object on the basis of Freedoms Of Consious, Religion, Thought, Belief, Opinion and Expression.

In this case, I hope the Charter overrules the Education Act

There is one section of the Education Act that states that students under 18 need parents to ask the Principal to excuse students from standing, but i believe that forcing students to stand is in violation of the Charter.

Forgive me for linking a possibly unreliable site, but it puts it pretty clear. kersplebedeb.com/posts/student-sits-through-national-anthem-gets-kicked-out-of-class-and-roughed-up/

I want to make a statement to the Principal.
I’d prefer not to make it an issue, but if I am thrown out of Class or Forced, that violates the Charter.

Please share your thoughts on all this below, try to be kinda nice ish? (Don’t kill me or get the thread shut down pls) but all opinions are welcome.

Am I right to not stand, and is the law on my side?

Is your catholic school a private school?

Lets have a great discussion!

 

[Meagan34]

But only if its for a left-wing cause, right?

** No, this applies to fascism as well, so stand away, sit down, or bow down all you like.** :bowdown2:

Oh boy! The PC police are in town! :extrahappy::newidea::newidea:

Feel free to be geographically incorrect. India = Indians. It’s a country NOT in North America or Western Europe, or tugs our oil interests so perhaps that is why you may be confused or oblivious to it.

I think white liberals are more worried about it than we are.

**Are you sure? My comment seems to have stepped on the pretty sensitive of a sensitive conservative. Starbucks red cup much?..
**
Yeah, Columbus just had to GPS his way to India. :clapping:

Thankfully we DO have them. Think of how much more smarter this man might have been. Now you no longer have to refer to people NOT from India as Indians.

What he accomplished was extraordinary.

He got lost with his crew, captured some slav- I mean and brought back some “immigrants” and their “gifts”. Very extraordinary indeed.