Stay Catholic or change religions?

[Annabelle_Marie]

Hi jlengle,
Start reading the bible. Maybe buy a “non Catholic Bible” - there are less explanations in it (and so you are less side-tracked), because if you faithfully pray to the Lord, He will give you understanding of what you are reading. - He will lead you to the fulness of truth, as He commanded us (cf. Jn 8:37)
Take your time. You need to get to know Jesus first before you can entrust Him your life and so become a (born again) Christian.
Really take your (new bought) bible into your hands and start reading. Everyday a bit. - You can also have a look for a bible-schedule in the internet. Then it is maybe easier when you know what you are reading when.
And then if you have gotten to know Jesus better you can make your desicion.

By the way: I think in ALL Christian denominations /Churches having sex before the marriage (and in very conservative groups also contraception) is regarded as not so good.
However, most protestant Churches won’t tell you that you are going to hell because you have done so, when you become a member of their Church. They will just tell you that it is god’s word and that you from now on keep His commandments. And maybe you learn it in a Bible School, if you later want to attend one that this is also doctrine you should preach, when preaching (although normally, except if you become accidentally JWs, you don’t have to. It is a gift that can be brought in in the body of Christ, like worship-guidance, teaching children and so on. - The Body of Christ is the community of all believers - yes even Catholics, the faithful ones, belong to it. Although they don’t want us to be part of it…; At least this is what some wrote here (indirectely)). What has happened has happened and you can’t change it anymore.

The great thing with the protestant Churches is that you are not told to come to hell because of every *** you do. If you make bull***, you can go to god and you can be sure that He will forgive you when you tell him and really want to repent. And if the burden is too high you can go to a any of your brothers and sisters of Christ and you may feel better. They will also pray with you.
You will see, when you have gotten Jesus better you will love Him so much that it will be easier and easier to hold His Commandments and to life a Christian, Holy Life.
(² guanophore: and yes, this is what we “Reborns” also teach! )

I would not hurry and run from one church to another if I were you.
First, get to know Jesus better, then you can still decide to which (protestant or not) Church you wanna go.

Peace,
in Christ,
Esdra

jlengle,

I wouldn’t believe everything posted by this poster. I was told many times that I was going to hell, in a Protestant church. Of course now that I’m a Catholic a few of them (protestants) are sure of it. I stand by my original post…go REALLY learn your Catholic faith first…then make a decision. This way you will not always wonder. I did not really know my faith when I left it and I really tried in the other churchs I went to but I found my way back. And if you would have told me that 10 years ago…I would have told you that you were crazy! I found a great program at my local parish…“Catholics can come home”. There have been many people in similiar situations as yours and they have been hurt too. I thought I was hurt by the Church too. But in talking and sharing…I found out the Church was just an easy place to lay blame. We were free to talk about what we like, didn’t like about the Church. Also, what had changed and why in the Church as some of us had been away for a LONG time. Go to RCIA…you don’t have to join…but you can learn. And maybe if you really learn your faith…you can talk with your husband about them. I’m willing to bet he has some misconceptions about the Church. I know I sure did. It might make it easier for your two to talk. And no one says that you have to agree with EVERYTHING of the Church right now…learn about it, learn why some things are. Then make your decision. There is always time to learn from other faiths later if you decide you don’t want to be Catholic. Feel free to PM me anytime!

God Bless!

 

[crazzeto]

Tartini,

To aid you in my questioning, here is Sacrosanctum Concilium, or the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy. I think this would be the document which contains whatever liturgical changes you believe came out of Vatican II. Please read it, cite which “protestant change” you’re talking about, and where it is in this document.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

 

[Esdra]

jlengle,

I wouldn’t believe everything posted by this poster. I was told many times that I was going to hell, in a Protestant church. Of course now that I’m a Catholic a few of them (protestants) are sure of it. I stand by my original post…go REALLY learn your Catholic faith first…then make a decision. This way you will not always wonder. I did not really know my faith when I left it and I really tried in the other churchs I went to but I found my way back. And if you would have told me that 10 years ago…I would have told you that you were crazy! I found a great program at my local parish…“Catholics can come home”. There have been many people in similiar situations as yours and they have been hurt too. I thought I was hurt by the Church too. But in talking and sharing…I found out the Church was just an easy place to lay blame. We were free to talk about what we like, didn’t like about the Church. Also, what had changed and why in the Church as some of us had been away for a LONG time. Go to RCIA…you don’t have to join…but you can learn. And maybe if you really learn your faith…you can talk with your husband about them. I’m willing to bet he has some misconceptions about the Church. I know I sure did. It might make it easier for your two to talk. And no one says that you have to agree with EVERYTHING of the Church right now…learn about it, learn why some things are. Then make your decision. There is always time to learn from other faiths later if you decide you don’t want to be Catholic. Feel free to PM me anytime!

God Bless!

I only write what I found out for myself because I really was in a very similar situation like jl.
I think the problem with the hell-issue is that American Protestant/Evangelical Churches are VERY different than the Euopean ones.
This is maybe one of the disadvantages posting as a European in an US forum…
In my (Baptist - I think they are Baptists. As I told you the Evangelicals are very different here…) Church we don’t talk about hell and who will go there and why.
Actually this is what I heard quite often in various Catholic parishes here (in Austria there are about 80% Catholics!).
We talk about Jesus that He has saved us and for us the Community of the believers is very important. We often meet and talk and pray together and read in the bible together. I think the Church I am attending is more similar to an Anabaptist Community like the Hutterites (although without “Christian Communism”).
We are also a very small community and thus a small family. It’s just great being here!

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[Tartini]

Tartini,

To aid you in my questioning, here is Sacrosanctum Concilium, or the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy. I think this would be the document which contains whatever liturgical changes you believe came out of Vatican II. Please read it, cite which “protestant change” you’re talking about, and where it is in this document.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

Thank you for you help in aiding me in an impossible task. Countless numbers of books have been written on the very subject, and you are wanting an instant answer. The obvious is not so obvious in the document itself, but in the interpretation of the document. There were protestants that helped form it, and that is really what I was referring to. There were too many questions which still need answers today. I will have to say that I would not be able to actually cite anything from the document due to the very ambiguous nature that it was worded. It states a reform outline, but often not what really needs to be reformed or how or why it is really necessary. A few points could be noted here, just to make some general assessment of protestant influences.The use of the vernacular was enough to get the ball rolling, along with the priest facing the congregation and the promotion of the person, rather than the worship of God. The music is often banal and course and the parishioners talk too much. The whole Mass is very much like being in a protestant church, but what can you do about it. It is a modernists dream that was fabricated with the aid of protestants. If you are familiar with the document, and truly understand it but cannot see the results in the New Mass, it may be that we are seeing it differently. I am a very conservative Catholic who disagrees with some of the V2 changes, not all. I will have to keep in in mind not to be so ambiguous myself in the future where I may have to resort to referring to an even more ambiguous source to prove my point. With all this, I still remain faithful to the Church, and am thankful that I have the ability to attend a traditional Latin Mass. I never want to give the impression that I believe the Magisterium to be selling out to the highest bidder here, just expressing a personal opinion, which I can say, I am not alone in. Perhaps I am just imagining things. I do believe that V2 did more good things than bad, it is simply that I feel that some parishes took it too far. It made the Sacrifice of the Mass less mysterious and more “user friendly” so people could just come as they are and forget being so formal in front of God. Relax and enjoy the drums and dancing. You have to remember the time-frame between when the document you stated was introduced and that which occurred up until today. Thankfully, this is changing with more Latin introduced, better music presented, and hopefully a more deeper reverence will come about for the Holy Eucharist. It is time to take it out of the hands of the faithful and back onto their tongues. It is the little things that make the big differences. Abuses occur due to the lack of attention paid to what is happening around oneself.

 

[jmcrae]

I give God a great more credit than that. I have faith He can forgive without having to do it with a priest.

Of course if He wants to do it that way, He can. Problem, though - we have no indication anywhere in Scripture or Holy Tradition that He has ever expressed any desire to do it that way. He gave us priests and Confessionals, and one must assume that since He gave them to us, He most likely expects us to make use of them.

Who here feels qualified to tell God that His set-up is all wrong, and that He should just forgive everyone “on demand” whenever they think in their mind that they might be sorry for something?

 

[jmcrae]

anode;6791507:

Almost every Christian denomination disagrees with you.

Yes, but before 1930 all Christian denominations held that contraception was immoral. As society changed, so did they…but the Catholic Church held to the teaching claiming that it would lead to a culture which doesn’t respect life…example…abortion, euthanasia, sexual promiscuity…all of which has happened…and gets worse everyday.

Right, which is a clear indication that the Protestants and some Orthodox are led by the fashions of this world, and not by the Word of God. The Catholic Church alone has remained steadfast in the Word of God with regard to the sanctity of human life.

 

[CMatt25]

If I am not mistaken (which I am not) I was addressing another poster. But if you do need explanation as to how we (you are Catholic I see) are “cleaning house”, it is by eradicating protestant influences brought on by Vatican 2. Now I am not going to open a can of worms here, that is just my feelings on that. There is no room for liberalism and modernism in the Church, and 40 odd years of slow erosion is not an impossible task to reverse. The social experiment of V2 was a failure overall, but some points were good. Not enough to make me leave certain Masses with the feeling I was just in a Catholic Church, so obviously there is more work to do.

Hmm. Well sorry you didn’t get my attempt to lighten the mood. God bless.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

(Edited out quote of deleted post)
That would make a big difference to the OP–would it not? All I’ve heard preached from the pulpit here in our Catholic church is Jesus–not about other churches and who is going to hell. But I have heard that preached in some (not all) Protestant churches. And I am a little biased because I have found the fullness of Christ in His Church…and wonder why it took me so long to come back for His healing and mercy.

The purpose was to help the OP make a very big decision and her experiences will be very different over here across the pond.

God Bless!

 

[CARV]

If that is the case…then I probably have a spot in Hell with my name written all over it! But I don’t believe that and it’s hard to understand why the die hard Catholics think that every wrong doing is going to send you to Hell. Seriously…how long ago was the Bible written? Yeah…maybe things about contraception and whatnot are in the bible, but times have changed…situations have changed. I’m sure God understands that. YES…I was on birth control…but I can’t afford to have a ton of kids. It isn’t like back in the day when women stayed home to raise kids while the men worked. Both parents need to work to pretty much survive these days and all the necessities for children these days gets very expensive. Both my children were blessings from God. My husband had cancer and he was told he would never be able to have children. Plus I was on birth control when we had our first child. So what does that tell you? Obviously God is not punishing us for having sex before we got married…he provided us with a miracle. There are a lot of things that happened in my life that made me think I would never be accepted back into the Catholic Church and it wasn’t anything that I should be ashamed of. (Like sex before marriage, having a child out of wedlock, living with my husband before we got married)…things like that. Those things are frowned upon by the Catholic Church. But I don’t see that being wrong…we have been together for 10 years…we’re happily married…have 2 beautiful children. So if the church would have the nerve to tell my children we’re going to hell because I used contraception and my husband chooses not to go to church…then I guess it’ll be time to find a new chuch. Church should be enjoyable for everyone not frightening! I want my children to enjoy the teachings of God…not be frightened by them saying that if you do this…this is going to happen to you. So I guess for now…I could consider myself a partial cafeteria Catholic because I don’t fully agree with everything.

A majority of Catholics are of the cafeteria variety so you won’t be out of place. I read somewhere that 90% of them disagree with the Pope concerning contraception. The only problem will be that eventually someone (priest, catechist) is going to teach your kids that non-catholics can go to hell for being heretics, contraception is sinful, and priestly confession is required for every single serious sin a person commits. What do you plan to tell your kids? That your Church teaches falsehoods? What will you say when they ask why you still go?

I am not trying to convince you to stay away from the Catholic Church but I am 29 and my wife and I have a 9 month old and we are 14 weeks pregnant. We used to be Catholic but we started to have doubts about some of the CC’s teachings. We felt that raising ours kids Catholic, when we really didn’t believe in Catholic doctrine, we be poisionous to them and eventually they would not have any faith in Christ at all.

 

[CMatt25]

Of course if He wants to do it that way, He can. Problem, though - we have no indication anywhere in Scripture or Holy Tradition that He has ever expressed any desire to do it that way. He gave us priests and Confessionals, and one must assume that since He gave them to us, He most likely expects us to make use of them.

Who here feels qualified to tell God that His set-up is all wrong, and that He should just forgive everyone “on demand” whenever they think in their mind that they might be sorry for something?

Well James taught in Scripture to confess our sins to one another and to pray for one another, that we may be saved. Now yes I know the preceding verses in that chapter are used to justify our Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick.

But I’ve already been told asking God directly to forgive our trespasses in the prayer the Lord gave us in Scripture does not constitute asking for His forgiveness.

So I’m certain if asking God to forgive our trespasses does not count, then confessing to one another does not apply to you either since it doesn’t fit the sole manner of confession as outlined by the CC.

But believe in whatever manner of confession or asking for forgiveness that works for you. God bless!

 

[CMatt25]

All I’ve heard preached from the pulpit here in our Catholic church is Jesus–not about other churches and who is going to hell.

Here are some the Church says are going to hell.

CCC 846, "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

So if everyone who once believed in the CC and who had a change in beliefs and does not remain in it, can not be saved, then they are are going to hell according to the Church.

 

[Contarini]

Here are some the Church says are going to hell.

CCC 846, "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

So if everyone who once believed in the CC and who had a change in beliefs and does not remain in it, can not be saved, then they are are going to hell according to the Church.

Only if their “change of beliefs” took place in the face of a genuine conviction that the Catholic Church was true. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it would be explicitly insincere–we are good at persuading ourselves of things.

The same would, according to the text you cite, apply to folks like me who know quite a bit about Catholicism but hesitate to take the jump. If we are genuinely following the truth as we understand it, then we’re fine (though still, your Church would say, missing out on the fullness of the Faith). But if we are blinding ourselves to the truth, then even if we are consciously sincere our souls are in grave danger.

Edwin

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

But believe in whatever manner of confession or asking for forgiveness that works for you. God bless!

I can say for one…it was scary to go to reconciliation–the first couple of times. But honestly its’ the only place I’ve been TRULY honest with myself of God. I just think you are missing out on a true blessing and grace.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

A majority of Catholics are of the cafeteria variety so you won’t be out of place. I read somewhere that 90% of them disagree with the Pope concerning contraception. The only problem will be that eventually someone (priest, catechist) is going to teach your kids that non-catholics can go to hell for being heretics, contraception is sinful, and priestly confession is required for every single serious sin a person commits. What do you plan to tell your kids? That your Church teaches falsehoods? What will you say when they ask why you still go?

I am not trying to convince you to stay away from the Catholic Church but I am 29 and my wife and I have a 9 month old and we are 14 weeks pregnant. We used to be Catholic but we started to have doubts about some of the CC’s teachings. We felt that raising ours kids Catholic, when we really didn’t believe in Catholic doctrine, we be poisionous to them and eventually they would not have any faith in Christ at all.

Don’t kid yourself…that’s exactly what you seem to be trying to do. By saying that if you raised your kids Catholic that eventually they wouldn’t have any faith in Christ at all.

Seriously…if I saw a post that was “stay episcipalian or change religions” I sure won’t go on there and BLAST your faith…

 

[CMatt25]

A majority of Catholics are of the cafeteria variety so you won’t be out of place. I read somewhere that 90% of them disagree with the Pope concerning contraception. The only problem will be that eventually someone (priest, catechist) is going to teach your kids that non-catholics can go to hell for being heretics, contraception is sinful, and priestly confession is required for every single serious sin a person commits. What do you plan to tell your kids? That your Church teaches falsehoods? What will you say when they ask why you still go?

I am not trying to convince you to stay away from the Catholic Church but I am 29 and my wife and I have a 9 month old and we are 14 weeks pregnant. We used to be Catholic but we started to have doubts about some of the CC’s teachings. We felt that raising ours kids Catholic, when we really didn’t believe in Catholic doctrine, we be poisionous to them and eventually they would not have any faith in Christ at all.

CARV, I fully understand where you are coming from. I struggle. But the way I’ve handled it to date is like this. I have no idea where God may lead me tomorrow. But in the meantime one does not need to be without doubt in regard to some beliefs in order to worship in the Catholic Church. And I haven’t lost my faith in Christ by doing so. I know His struggle in bearing the cross which He did for each of us and the sacrifice He made for us on that cross He bore, was far greater than any struggle I may have. But I understand where you’re coming from as well. And btw best wishes on the little one on its way! God bless!

 

[guanophore]

Ditto. And Esdra, count your blessings. I’ve been told I’m facing hell if I don’t repent for not obeying my bishop by missing Mass on Nov 1, a so called Holy Day of Obligation in my particular diocese. Though not necessarily in another. So they’ve given you a break in judgment. Peace to you on your walk with him. God bless.

It is nothing personal, CMatt.We are all facing hell when we sin, and all disobedience is sin. Warning a brother about the fires of hell, though, in order to snatch him away from them, is not "judgment’. We are here to help one another along the steep and narrow path, not to pass judgment upon one another.

 

[guanophore]

Me, too.

I’m also looking for a city that has no traffic laws - for me, only, of course. Everyone else needs to stay off the sidewalks and stop at red lights, but I should be allowed to do whatever I want, because, hey, I’m in a hurry. And, I’m special.

I would like to be in great shape without paying attention to my food intake, and without working out. In fact, I would like to be at the peak of fitness while being a couch potato.

 

[guanophore]

:clapping: And while you might disagree with someone on receiving the Eucharist, you certainly don’t disagree with Christ. Christ clearly taught in Jn 6:37 He would turn away no one from the Eucharist who are called to receive Him.

No, CMatt, I dont 'think you can show this. This scripture must be taken together with all the Scriptures that relate to the eucharist (as well as the Teaching of the Church). Clearly those persons to whom Paul is writing are “called to receive HIm”, but were doing so in an unworthy manner. Paul was clear that doing so would cause them great damage spiritually, and perhaps physically as well. It is wrong to receive in an unworthy manner, and we are to discern this ourselves, and turn ourselves before we commit sacrilege. The Eucharist is the sign of unity in the Church, and it is wrong to accept something with one’s body that one denies in one’s heart and mind.

 

[guanophore]

The Catholic faith is a faith. Other faiths are faiths. We can pretend otherwise but none are 100% absolute certain knowledge with every dotted “i” and crossed “t” for certain exactly correct. That’s not to say Truth is relative. It isn’t. There is one truth. Christ is the Truth He said. And in that case we shall know when we meet Him or He comes again. In the meantime it’s all faith and beliefs. God bless and peace.

This is a non-Catholic perspective, CMatt. The Church founded by Christ has only ONE FAITH. All others are a departure from the Church He founded. We can be 100% sure of all that He has revealed, and be confident that it is correct, because it comes from Him.

While there is truth in all faiths and beliefs, the fullness of Truth is found in the once for all deposit of faith made to the Church. To reject this is to reject Catholicity for oneself.

 

[CMatt25]

It is nothing personal, CMatt.We are all facing hell when we sin, and all disobedience is sin. Warning a brother about the fires of hell, though, in order to snatch him away from them, is not "judgment’. We are here to help one another along the steep and narrow path, not to pass judgment upon one another.

We might not agree on what defines sin but thanks Guan