Stay Catholic or change religions?

[jmcrae]

I only use that as an example.

Making it a Holy Day of Obligation means that the priest has to schedule the Masses for that day at times that are convenient for you to go. Why would you not be going to that Mass anyway, even if it were not obligatory?

The fact that it’s obligatory just makes it easier for you to get there.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I just thought most were like me and others I grew up around. I guess that is not true. Either way, sorry I don’t agree with everything. Just stop wasting your time on me; I am not worth the trouble.

There is no reason to be sorry. We are just trying to correct you on what the real Church teaches. You are a child of God, talking and exchanging is not a waste of time, especially when it’s about God!

And yes, sadly, there are many Catholics who do not follow the Teachings of the Church, yet still call themselves Catholics. It can be confusing.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

What I don’t understand is somebody (Catholic to boot!) like CMatt saying that he 'goes to the Father direct" as though this ‘differs’ from going to the Father through the Church, through the saints, etc. and is somehow ‘better.’

Going through Mary, the saints, and the Church one goes to the Father **far more directly than one could do by simply ‘thinking’, "OK God, I don’t need nobody but you, I am communicating with you DIRECTLY now God, listen to me because I’m speaking DIRECTLY to you, I don’t need no help, I don’t need no ‘authority’, I will FEEL you speak to me because I’m going DIRECTLY to you so I know whatever I feel or ‘hear’ has gotta be YOU. And above all, when I ‘feel’ or ‘hear’ something that I think is YOU and it CONTRADICTS Catholic teaching, well then, I’m going to accept my own ‘private interpretation’ of what I think is ‘you’ as being correct and I’m going to jettison and reject any Catholic teaching because it didn’t come to me ‘directly’ and ‘heard’ through my supposedly going ‘directly’ to God. **

**Now a non-Catholic may be able to say “Speak God and I’m listening”. . .because he doesn’t have an authority that he will listen to other than his own ‘heart’. And it is possible that this person can ‘hear’ God, because he doesn’t really have any other opportunity. It’s also possible, though, that he will be deceived into thinking he hears God, but he hears the Evil One instead. Since he doesn’t have an authority, it is easier for him to be deceived. **

**Catholics have though more responsibility as they do have an authority through which they can know the truth and through which they go ‘directly’ to God (can’t imagine being more direct than receiving Him in the Eucharist!) so if they are ‘listening for Him’ and hearing teachings that contradict Catholic teaching, they can and should submit to the authority as being correct and that they are either misunderstanding the teachings that contradict Catholic teaching (such that they really are the same teachings but the person listening doesn’t understand correctly), or else what they ‘hear’ is not really from God if it contradicts Catholic Teaching. **

 

[CMatt25]

Do you really think Christ will look at someone and say “Let’s see you accepted My birth, death and resurrection, and asked for forgiveness, but you’re protestant? Hmm, tisk tisk, sorry”. That just how people on here make it seem to be.

I really don’t belong here. It’s a very foreign environment. In my years of upbringing around the catholic church and being around Catholic people I never came in contact with anyone like how some here on the forums.

Considering Christ actually told us otherwise and if you believe, then you have life everlasting, I sincerely do not think that is what Christ would say to a believer. In doing so it would make Christ a hypocrite and liar which He certainly is not in my book.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I totally agree! I believe I received some very sincere answers on here and some that I should probably just ignore. I’m going back to the Catholic Church on Sunday. I will let everything in God’s hands now.

I’ve been thread stalking this thread for a few days.

That is so awesome. Leave yourself in God’s hands. He wants what’s best for you. We don’t always understand. Remember when Jesus opened they eyes of his Apostles and they understood what he was about? (Luke 24). God wants us to trust in him.

 

[jmcrae]

Considering Christ actually told us otherwise and if you believe, then you have life everlasting, I sincerely do not think that is what Christ would say to a believer. In doing so it would make Christ a hypocrite and liar which He certainly is not in my book.

Where in the New Testament do you find Jesus or anyone saying “just believe”? It’s not in there - in fact, the only place in the whole Bible that we find the words “faith” and “alone” in the same verse is in the Letter of James, when he says, “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17)

Jesus was very clear that obedience and good works must accompany faith. Those who cried out “Lord, Lord” but did not obey, and did no good works, were sent away into Hell.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Considering Christ actually told us otherwise and if you believe, then you have life everlasting, I sincerely do not think that is what Christ would say to a believer. In doing so it would make Christ a hypocrite and liar which He certainly is not in my book.

Is that all Christ really said, “All you have to do is believe?” If that’s what you believe, why be Catholic?

Catholics don’t believe in a works-based salvation. You cannot believe in God on your own.

 

[CMatt25]

Which came first: the Church or the Bible?

Christ came first. He was the Word and the Word was from the beginning. If He needs to correct the Apostolic successors if they have strayed then who are we to say He does not have that power if that is what someone believes. He did afterall teach by their fruits we shall know them. Peace and blessings to you and to all of us on our journeys to know. He shall come again.

 

[CMatt25]

You understand the Apostles? How was this accomplished?

For some they believe by the Holy Spirit. Christ told us He is the truth and the Truth shall come again. In the meantime it’s all faith and belief. God bless you in yours. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

It was Jesus who gave us the Church, and all of those “rules and regulations.” Somebody didn’t just come along and do that later, by surprise - all of it is from Jesus.

How can a person be said to be “following Jesus” if they aren’t following the Church that He set up?

Unless man added to the rules. Easy. The Church He set up is made up of the body of His believers. Christ was big on us believing in Him. Not so much on rules. Just ask the Pharisees.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Jlengle, you know I use to feel the same way…I hated going to confession…I always felt very nervous, and uncomfortable. Then one day I was in a Catholic book store and I picked up a little booklet…a guide to confession…I read through this book and found that though I had been going to confession… I never really understood why it was important. I felt the same way you did…Why do I need to confess…I never knew really how to examine my conscience, so I never really got anything out of confession, I feel that before I found this booklet I never really said a good confession. I can remember my first good confession like one would remember his or her wedding day…I felt something change inside me…I realized what a wonderful gift God has given us…confession…I realized that confession was for me, to help me heal my heart, my spirit, and break any strongholds in my life. Believe me we all have many strongholds that we don’t even realize… unless like me, you are at confession at least every other week. I can remember telling my sister how often I go to confession, and she said “Wow you must be really bad”. And I said “No Evonne…I just want to be better, I want to be whole…I’m so tired to being broken and being apart from God, he gave us this gift of reconciliation for US not for HIM…he is giving us an easy burden lifting, soul purifying, way home” What better way to get Gods flowing graces in your life, but through confession…I have been going to confession every other week and sometimes every week for the past 8 years, and I never miss mass, I go to mass 4or5 times a week, and it keeps me strong and vigilant, but most of all it has healed ALL my wounds…and that was not an easy task. You cant pick and choose what you want to believe as a Catholic, because you are not simply rejecting Catholic teaching you are rejecting Jesus and all he did and all he laid out for us to ensure we are reunited with him in the end…We as Catholic have the fullness of truth, and I say that with confidence be I left the Church for many years, went to many other churches but I never felt like I was home, I never could understand how and why pastors of these protestant churches would take scripture and twist it and use it out of context and think nothing of it…then I realized, it is because most…no all of them were so ignorant of scripture, they misunderstood Jesus, and thought that it was their job to interpret scripture to fit their own agenda. I’m so glad I came back…because we as Catholics have 2000 years of history…we go back all the way to Jesus 2000 years of unbroken Apostolic lineage…And who do you think compiled the Bible that the world uses?..Yes, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!..What came first…The Church or the Bible? The Church with all her sacred traditions and sacraments…sacraments that Jesus put in place…I don’t care where you go, you will never get what you have in the Catholic church anywhere else…We are the only ones who have Jesus truly present in the Eucharist, no one else was given that authority…I really hope you get down on your knees and pray to the Holy spirit to help you make the right decision, I will pray for you and your husband. God bless you and be well.

That’s EXACTLY how I feel! Great Post:thumbsup:

 

[jmcrae]

Christ came first. He was the Word and the Word was from the beginning. If He needs to correct the Apostolic successors if they have strayed then who are we to say He does not have that power if that is what someone believes. He did afterall teach by their fruits we shall know them. Peace and blessings to you and to all of us on our journeys to know. He shall come again.

The fruits of the Catholic Church include the Calendar of Saints, the Bible, the Mass, the Sacraments, the Catechism, and a great deal of beautiful art, architecture, music, books, movies, and more.

Protestants have produced some things, but not nearly as much as the Catholic Church, and mostly, they just sit on the sidelines and criticize what the Catholic Church has produced as not being “good enough.” Did any Protestant ever think of producing “The Passion of the Christ”? No - but when Mel Gibson thought of it, they sure criticized it a lot, as if they had a better idea, or even knew what they were talking about.

 

[jmcrae]

Unless man added to the rules. Easy. The Church He set up is made up of the body of His believers. Christ was big on us believing in Him. Not so much on rules. Just ask the Pharisees.

Jesus’ problem with the Pharisees was not that they had a lot of rules, but rather, that they were inventing loopholes for themselves to be able to get out of following the rules, while at the same time punishing ordinary people when they weren’t able to follow them.

The Catholic Church binds the entire membership to its rules, and in fact the leadership has even stricter rules to follow than the ordinary people have to follow, except for those who are not able to follow them - we are not bound to do things that are impossible for us to do, and there is no sin for those who were genuinely not aware that they were supposed to be doing those things.

And keep in mind that it was Jesus who said, “Do as they (the Pharisees) tell you to do, but don’t follow their example.”

 

[CMatt25]

This is a discussion forum. Are you upset that someone disagrees with your understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches?

Did you think you would come here and find Catholics who don’t know their Bible, people who don’t know the Church is based on God?

No I think perhaps he’s just shocked about how some treat people who disagree with them here. But speaking for myself, I did think I’d come here and find all the so called self professed hardcore knowing the Church definition of who is Catholic though. So that surprises me a bit.

 

[CMatt25]

This is called relativism.

Guan, it’s not relative when there is one truth and He shall come again and in the meantime the Sacrament is one manner in which you can ask Him for forgiveness. God bless.

 

[CMatt25]

Besides, most people who "once believed in the CC: are like yourself, and never really understood or accepted the Catholic faith. Many are poorly catechized, or have unwittingly embraced heresies. There are people who think it is not possible to know the truth.

Properly discerning also means that it is inappropriate to receive when you are not in unity with the Church Teachings, or are in a state of mortal sin. You don’t seem to have a problem with people receiving in these states.

Persons who have excommunicated themselves by rejecting the teachings of the Church,and who further sin by encouraging others to do so are still Catholic.

What eternal advantage do you think there is to being an apostasized Catholic, or an excommunicated Catholic, or a Catholic in a state of mortal sin? I hope you are not laboring under some myth that calling yourself "Catholic necessarily implies you are saved from the fires of hell.

That is just it, CMATT. We cannot read the heart,a nd we only know about those in heaven which God has revealed to us. However, these are not “hypotheticals”. These are the teachings of Jesus,and He was quite clear that those who did not follow them have no part in Him. It is not “generic” but quite specific. The Church has the duty to warn those headed for the cliff, and to shepherd the faithful in the straight and narrow way. I know that is difficult for you to accept, since you believe it is not possible to know the Truth.

Good then I have nothing to worry about.

Of course I have no problem with sinners receiving Christ. That would be foolish of me to expect only the most pure to be able to approach and receive Christ.

Bingo on who is a Catholic. :extrahappy:

I’m laboring under no myth, Guan. The Church calls us Catholic. Whatever eternal benefits there might be we will have to wait together and see. The Truth shall come again and it is my deep faith that we shall know Him, Guan. And how glorious that will be! Amen.

 

[CMatt25]

The problem here is the attitude of disobedience. The mindset that you can pick and choose. All disobedience is sin.

It is great the you have experienced this.

The prroblem I see is you perception that the sacrament is “indirect”. It indicates a lack of awareness about what “in the person of Christ” really means.

This is a good example of what I mean when I say that most Catholics who leave the faith don’t know what they are leaving. They leave BECAUSE they don’t understand the teachings of the Church. People are not condemned to hell for ignorance.

Guan, I’m sorry you misunderstood. Christ is in the confessional along with you and the priest on the other side of the screen if that’s how you choose to do it. And when you confess there, you are directly confessing to God. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. And if that means works well for you, go for it! I just feel the presence of His healing hands even more so when I go into my room. Close the door. Quietly alone with God. Just me and Him. Me getting down on my knees in prayer and confessing in that manner. I can’t help it. And I can’t lie and say otherwise. It’s just the manner in which I feel His mercy and grace the most. God bless.

 

[CMatt25]

What I don’t understand is somebody (Catholic to boot!) like CMatt saying that he 'goes to the Father direct" as though this ‘differs’ from going to the Father through the Church, through the saints, etc. and is somehow ‘better.’

Please do not put words into my mouth. No one said anything about better. In fact I have been encouraging Guan to receive the Sacrament if that’s how he feels God’s healing the most. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Where in the New Testament do you find Jesus or anyone saying “just believe”? It’s not in there - in fact, the only place in the whole Bible that we find the words “faith” and “alone” in the same verse is in the Letter of James, when he says, “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17)

Jesus was very clear that obedience and good works must accompany faith. Those who cried out “Lord, Lord” but did not obey, and did no good works, were sent away into Hell.

Laneo and I presented some verses awhile ago about believing for everlastng life. I agree of course though that Christ spelled out precisely what works it is by which a Christian would express their faith to others and would be among the righteous. See Matt 25:36-46 for a list. And on the Mount He taught blessed are the peacemakers as well. God bless you and peace.

 

[jmcrae]

Laneo and I presented some verses awhile ago about believing for everlastng life. I agree of course though that Christ spelled out precisely what works it is by which a Christian would express their faith to others and would be among the righteous. See Matt 25:36-46 for a list. And on the Mount He taught blessed are the peacemakers as well. God bless you and peace.

Right. And there is no one alive who can complete that list all by themselves. No single individual can become a doctor, a social worker, a restauranteur, a seamstress, and so many other things, and do all of those jobs at the same time. That’s part of why we need a Church - so that together, we can provide for the needs of the world, instead of each person trying to do it all, all by himself.