Stay Catholic or change religions?

[Lapey]

Wow, I left town for a couple of days and return to see this thread alive and well as is His Church!

Looks like the Church, His Church, is in good hands here.

CMatt, what does the Eucharist mean to you, yes personally. What does it mean to you to step up and receive?

Everything else is of no importance, in my opinion. When I came to the realization that the Eucharist was truly and wholly Jesus Christ Himself, all of the other issues which you bring up became unimportant. That is why I ask you this question.

If I understand the Eucharist to truly be Him, then I will do whatever I have to do to not be at odds with the Church that is responsible for making this available to me.

Remember what St. Justin Martyr wrote, “Without the Eucharist there are no Christians, and without Christians there is no Eucharist.” Remember this was from a time when it wasn’t necessary to call Christians Catholic; there was only one denomination, Catholic. However, with that said, as early as 107 AD, we were being called Catholic, St. Ignatius of Antioch.

 

[CMatt25]

No, laneo, you are a priest, prophet, and king in Christ, so don’t go around calling yoruself names like this. It does not glorify God! He gave His life for you so that you can proclaim Him, not put yourself down.

We share unity in our baptism, but for many, that is where it ends. Unity comes from adherance to the Truth. If one says that the Truth cannot be known until Jesus comes again, then one is denying the faith into which they were baptized. Jesus sealed the Apostles in His Truth, and they passed this Truth to their successors. He has preserved His Truth infallibly in the Church, just as He said He would. It IS possible to know and follow the Truth. We all start out ignorant, but don’t have to stay that way.

No Guan, baptism is not where it ends. Since you’re on the non Catholic forum maybe you ought to try to branch out. You might be surprised there is more than baptism which unites. In unity in Him. Peace!

 

[Lapey]

No Guan, baptism is not where it ends. Since you’re on the non Catholic forum maybe you ought to try to branch out. You might be surprised there is more than baptism which unites. In unity in Him. Peace!

Problem is Matt, you do not work towards unity. You work towards seperation.

 

[CMatt25]

So which church’s version do you believe in?

Do you believe Christ is physically present in the Eucharist?

I already said I believe He is present. When I, after praying “Lord I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed”, and if I then feel healed and called, which btw I usually do, and I then with the humblist of hearts, approach and receive Him in the Catholic Church, yes I believe He is there.

If God or if even some of the most devout hardest core purist Catholic CAFers were ever to lead me away to attend a Protestant church, like I already said, I’d believe He was there too.

God is with me now siting at the computer. God is with you there as well. God is everywhere and with all of us.

Physically? Good question. I understand all beliefs on this and perhaps it’s a nice topic to discuss over coffee I guess. That depends on if we take literally “Do this in remembrance of Me” or “This is my body” literally. Or if “eat” means “believe” in Jn 6 or if it means to literally eat. Or if we believe Christ is sitting @ the rt hand of God at the moment and will come again. Or if He can be physically on earth and heaven all at the same time. Which I assume He could be if chooses since afterall He is God.

There are many good faith questions which have been debated down thru the centuries and which I presume will continue to be so until we die or He comes again. And we then meet our Maker face to face. When if we are truly honest with ourselves, is at which time when we will only truly know for certain all absolute truths. Until then we walk as the Apostle Paul taught us. Not by sight but by faith. God bless you Christine on your lifelong journey of faith with Him and peace be with you always.

Your brother in Christ,
CMatt25

 

[CMatt25]

“Depending on the church?” You mean that it’s not GOD who chooses reality but the ‘preception’ of an individual or his church?

You mean that God, because He is ‘everywhere’ is present to the ‘symbolic’ crowd in the way they ‘perceive’, and that this is ‘just as good’ as the “Catholic perception?” Just as “true”? Symbolic is not ‘real’, but hey, if symbolic is what somebody wants then it is just as ‘good’ and ‘true’ as Real?

How. . . indifferent that seems.

Well I guess pretty much if you call that indifferent. I call it believing in Christ’s presence. I once had a Disciples of Christ pastor tell me his church doesn’t believe in a physical RP during their weekly Communion service, but they certainly hope His presence is very real and with them spiritually! And of course He is in the midsts. I’ve also had a priest in TEC tell me TEC believes in a physical RP. They just don’t attempt to define a detailed doctrine about how, as the RCC does. That kinda gets back to Guan and the mysteries of faith. But that having said that, this TEC priest said if anyone feels called to receive, then so be it! I know perhaps all of this is a bit difficult for you to fathom but where 2 or 3 are gathered, there He is! God bless you Tantum and peace!

 

[qui_est_ce]

I already said I believe He is present. When I, after praying “Lord I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed”, and if I then feel healed and called, which btw I usually do, and I then with the humblist of hearts, approach and receive Him in the Catholic Church, yes I believe He is there.

If God or if even some of the most devout hardest core purist Catholic CAFers were ever to lead me away to attend a Protestant church, like I already said, I’d believe He was there too.

God is with me now siting at the computer. God is with you there as well. God is everywhere and with all of us.

Physically? Good question. I understand all beliefs on this and perhaps it’s a nice topic to discuss over coffee I guess. That depends on if we take literally “Do this in remembrance of Me” or “This is my body” literally. Or if “eat” means “believe” in Jn 6 or if it means to literally eat. Or if we believe Christ is sitting @ the rt hand of God at the moment and will come again. Or if He can be physically on earth and heaven all at the same time. Which I assume He could be if chooses since afterall He is God.

There are many good faith questions which have been debated down thru the centuries and which I presume will continue to be so until we die or He comes again. And we then meet our Maker face to face. When if we are truly honest with ourselves, is at which time when we will only truly know for certain all absolute truths. Until then we walk as the Apostle Paul taught us. Not by sight but by faith. God bless you Christine on your lifelong journey of faith with Him and peace be with you always.

Your brother in Christ,
CMatt25

You did not answer the question. Is the host his literal body and the cup his literal blood. Is he literally present in the Eucharist or is he spiritually present as in he is with me know at the computer.

I want to know what YOU believe, not what some church or theologian believes.

Thanks.

 

[CMatt25]

Of course. I’m not that so ill-informed not to know what is said.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well I guess pretty much if you call that indifferent. I call it believing in Christ’s presence. I once had a Disciples of Christ pastor tell me his church doesn’t believe in a physical RP but they certainly hope His presence is very real and with them spiritually! And of course He is in the midsts. I know perhaps it’s difficult or you to fathom but where 2 or 3 are gathered, there He is! God bless you Tantum and peace!

Oh it’s not at all difficult, Matt, but there is a very big difference between God’s presence 'in the midst of 2 or 3", His presence in a 'symbolic eucharist, and God’s presence in the Eucharist in the Church.

Do you think the presence is the same?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Of course. I’m not that so ill-informed not to know what is said.

What ‘is said?’

Is it Truth, Matt?

 

[TedDC]

And Matt, before you respond yet again about how ‘buttoned down’ and intolerant I am with my insistence on 'the Church being right all the time". . .sugah, been there and done that.

I had a LOT of friends back in my ‘indifferent’ period, myself. I was the Catholic who was all about “unity”. I was so fond of saying that there were ‘many’ paths to God and that we were all at different ‘points’ on our faith journey. I was so supportive of all people and whatever they ‘choose’ to be their morality because, hey, God just wanted us to be ‘happy’ and to emphasize ‘unity’. I ‘picked and choose’ from the cafeteria and ‘adapted’ from other traditions as I saw fit.

Sound familiar?

What happened, I’m sure you’re thinking. What happened to turn this lovely, embracing, INTELLIGENT person into the straight-laced traditionalist who cheerfully submits in obedience to some "Monolith’ church?

God happened, that’s what. Praise the Lord, He can ‘open the eyes’ and melt the heart of even the blindest, proudest, most secular and smug among us. He did it for me even though I surely didn’t deserve it. That’s why I’ll keep hoping and praying for you, Matt. People I never knew as well as some I came to know later were praying for me in just that way. And they’re praying for you too, Matt! God bless.

Why would God give us brains, and then not want us to use them? To give up critical thinking in favor of “docile submission” (what a creepy phrase) to whatever some organization tells us to believe and do?

 

[CMatt25]

You did not answer the question. Is the host his literal body and the cup his literal blood. Is he literally present in the Eucharist or is he spiritually present as in he is with me know at the computer.

I want to know what YOU believe, not what some church or theologian believes.

Thanks.

I answered. I guess though you just didn’t like my answer. I am sorry but I just don’t understand what you did not get about a and how we are all still on our faith journeys and will be for a lifetime. I’m sorry though. Forgive me and peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why would God give us brains, and then not want us to use them? To give up critical thinking in favor of “docile submission” (what a creepy phrase) to whatever some organization tells us to believe and do?

I think you misinterpreted what Tantum said. The greatest minds in the world were Catholic-
St. Thomas Aquinas, Augustin. Pope Benedict XVI is probably has more brains in his little finger than 99% of anyone alive today. Would you call them docile and submissive?

Submission also carries the meaning of opening oneself to the Lord. The Church does not tell us to be doormats.

 

[jmcrae]

Why would God give us brains, and then not want us to use them? To give up critical thinking in favor of “docile submission” (what a creepy phrase) to whatever some organization tells us to believe and do?

“Critical thinking” is not the same thing as knee-jerk opposition to the established norm.

If you just oppose everything Catholic simply because it’s Catholic, then you aren’t thinking any more clearly than someone who just does as they’re told merely because the person telling them is Catholic.

It actually takes a lot of critical thinking to come to the point where you understand, believe, and obey the teachings of the Church, and can differentiate between what the Church actually teaches, and what the reasoning is behind it, and what some random person who claims to be Catholic is saying or doing.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I answered. I guess though you just didn’t like my answer. I am sorry but I just don’t understand what you did not get about a and how we are all still on our faith journeys and will be for a lifetime. I’m sorry. Forgive me and peace.

You gave me a lengthy hedging answer of what people say.

Do you believe God the Eucharist is the literal body and blood of our Lord? Yes or no?

 

[qui_est_ce]

“Critical thinking” is not the same thing as knee-jerk opposition to the established norm.

If you just oppose everything Catholic simply because it’s Catholic, then you aren’t thinking any more clearly than someone who just does as they’re told merely because the person telling them is Catholic.

It actually takes a lot of critical thinking to come to the point where you understand, believe, and obey the teachings of the Church, and can differentiate between what the Church actually teaches, and what the reasoning is behind it, and what some random person who claims to be Catholic is saying or doing.

 

[jmcrae]

I answered. I guess though you just didn’t like my answer. I am sorry but I just don’t understand what you did not get about a and how we are all still on our faith journeys and will be for a lifetime. I’m sorry though. Forgive me and peace.

Yes. we are still on the journey and will be for a lifetime. But if we don’t know where we are going, then we will never arrive there, no matter how long we journey.

If you don’t know what God does in Holy Communion, then you should find out, because Holy Communion is our food for the journey.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Why would God give us brains, and then not want us to use them? To give up critical thinking in favor of “docile submission” (what a creepy phrase) to whatever some organization tells us to believe and do?

I never used the phrase --that came from you.

Where did I say I gave up ‘critical thinking?’ Where did I say I didn’t use my brains?

Can y’all tell me something? Why it is that it appears that you only think that those who ‘rebel’ against a truth are ‘thinking for themselves’, and that those who accept a truth aren’t ‘using their brains?’ Don’t you think that we used our brains to determine that the claim the Catholic Church makes on Truth was, in fact, True???

Suppose that the Encyclopedia Brittanica tells me that a triangle has three sides.

I think (using my brains). By golly, that is correct. A triangle does have three sides.

So, I agree.

By the ‘logic’ of some, I’m not using my brains. I’m ‘docilely submitting’ to "the encyclopedia Brittanica’ and letting it ‘think for me’.

If I said, “heck no, it has 4 sides”, would I be hailed as ‘thinking for myself?’

It is ridiculous to not accept truth. it is as silly for me to insist that just because some ‘encyclopedia’ told me a triangle had 3 sides I would not accept this because I wanted it to have 4. . .because that would mean I rejected truth.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

The Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church are very different. The Catholic Church teaches that if you don’t accept certain teaching, pretty much the whole CCC, then you are a heretic and you must refrain from communion and repent or burn. Protestants churches often times don’t have such a comprehensive list of required beliefs.

No one is picking a church based on feelings. Protestants have sincere, deeply held beliefs as well as catholics.

Believe me…I’m well aware of some Protestant teachings…I spent 20+ years in them. And I have had several people act like if I didn’t agree with something - that I was going to hell. But I haven’t been to the Episcopal Church. But just so you know…that is NOT what the Catholic Church teaches. You are free to be where you want to be…just don’t go telling people something about the Catholic Church that is NOT true…

 

[CMatt25]

Problem is Matt, you do not work towards unity. You work towards seperation.

Thanks Lapey for the critique. I am human and might fail at times and I sincerely am sorry to anyone if I have come across as not seeking unity in Christian brother and sisterhood. But I strive to seek unity. Just not the kind that requires everyone to come your way though I guess. Because I don’t believe that is truly seeking unity. That’s demanding my way or the highway and unity doesn’t work that way and will never on earth be achieved that way until He comes again. Peace Lapey.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I answered. I guess though you just didn’t like my answer. I am sorry but I just don’t understand what you did not get about a and how we are all still on our faith journeys and will be for a lifetime. I’m sorry though. Forgive me and peace.

What you believe is not a matter of my “liking” it or not.

This is not a trick question!