Staying, Leaving?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hope1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I am having a rough time. I might leave and just be a practicing Christian/Catholic on my own.

I am losing my faith in the Church. Not God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, but the Church itself. I find myself questioning this too and thinking along these lines that is a remnant of truth in the Church, but it’s diluted and obscure.

I look at the history of Christianity (not just Catholicism) and see how it was divided from the very start, then united, then divided again, and then divided some more off into the Protestant branches, and them those some more. I am not even sure that the Catholic Church today really is still the same Church that existed before the gospels were even written (since they were written years after Jesus’ death).

I am still going to Church and I pray for insight and help, but I am in serious doubt anymore.

I am considering talking to my priest, but at the same time, I don’t feel like I really matter that much to waste his time. What’s he going to tell me anyway? Probably everything I’ve been reading on my own anyway. I am curious about that book Gracepoole posted. But I am also curious about learning more about the history of Christianity as a whole from scholarly resources.
 
Do you believe the gates of hell has prevailed over the Church? And when did that happen? In Jesus’ time, the Middle ages, or just recently in the 20th-21st century?

Also, what’s your opinion of Jesus, do you still think He is God and the Messiah or just a crazy man ?

Because if his Church has fallen (today, yesterday, tomorrow), then we can only conclude that He lied right? At the very start with his 12 apostles, Jesus was apparently aware of Judas’ future betrayal and mortal sin, yet he was granted power and authority to perform miracles on Jesus’ behalf. So how do you make light of that fact to the abuses of priests we have had in the Church? Do you think the Church fell right from the start with Judas’ betrayal or only now or maybe during the middle ages? How do you reconcile it?

I’m just wondering because I came across the video of Lizzie Answers who is considering leaving the Church for Judaism and I imagine that consideration is due to the questions I posited above. That she may believe Jesus was just a crazy man which opens up Judaism for her by denying His Messianic role.
 
Staying.

The Truth and the validity of the Church and her sacraments are not dependent upon the moral rectitude of it’s members.

The crimes committed by the guilty clergy are HORRIFIC. I’m 100% in favor of a lay investigation to rip the band-aid off.

But the Church is still the Church and it’s the only place I can get the Eucharist.
 
That’s interesting.
My reading of books like The Apostacy that wasn’t, and the Case for Jesus (Brant Pitre, not the Case for Christ), re-affirmed and strengthened my faith in the Church.

It became apparent that after Jesus was assumed into heaven, that the Church he left looked in its key elements like the Catholic Church of today; with Mass, and the believe in the Eucharist as body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.

That’s a pretty strong spine of truth from Christ all the way to me.
 
These are all fair questions that I believe deserve full answers. At the moment I do not have time to address them fully. Quickly I will say that yes, I believe full heartedly that Jesus is God. He is the second person in the Blessed Trinity. I do believe He is the Messiah. I have no intention to become Jewish. At this moment, I do not feel like I will leave Catholicism, but I will continue to pray for guidance. If at some point God leads me to somewhere else, I will follow Him. No, Jesus is not a liar. The Gates of Hell will not prevail over His true church. I will attempt to be more thorough later this evening or tomorrow when I have time.
 
I never read that book. Thanks for the suggestion (even if it wasn’t a suggestion).

My problem is two fold. The first is my faith was never strong to begin with. In spite of going to a Catholic school for a while and then CCD later, I was never really taught our faith. I didn’t even know what a Catechism was. My family is a combination of religions with most being Agnostic. My dad was Agnostic and my mom Catholic. And her father was Lutheran and her mom Catholic. As an example, the Catholics in my family (mom, brother, aunts and uncles) none of them believe in the real presence. And to be perfectly honest, I have yet to accept it either. I was brought up being taught the Eucharist was a symbol. I’ve tried to make myself believe, but I can’t.

My point is, my faith has always been weak and I’ve always been seeking and questioning, hoping to be touched by the Holy Spirit. I make myself read, try to instill these teaching in myself. But for whatever reason, I haven’t had that spark that makes me accept all the teachings. For all intents and purpose, I guess I am a heretic.

When I say I look at the history of Christianity I look at the early Christians and they aren’t much like us. They didn’t have the Church as we know it today. There is still that heart but it seems so much has been added over time. The main thing I am struggling with now is the whole hierarchy of the Church that allowed this abuse in the first place. The distinction between clergy and laity really didn’t come about until 200 years after Jesus was crucified.

So take that weak faith to this changing history of the Church, I find myself asking, is this really what Jesus intended?

I am not leaving Jesus because of Judas as people say. I am not leaving Jesus at all. I want to still be a Christian and follow Christ’s teachings. I am considering (haven’t left yet) leaving the the institution of the Church. And it’s more than just the few priests who did these horrible things. It’s the systematic and institutionalized protection of these men to the point where they were allowed to move around and find more victims. And this did not just happen not happen in one diocese, one state or even one county. It’s all over and reaches back for years.

The corruption goes so deep. How can I not question the system of governance that hid all this? Especially when by church standards, as I said before, I am a horrible sinful heretic because not because of what I’ve done (like these priests and bishops did), but my inability to fully accept the Church’s teachings. I almost feel like, how can they say I am the bad one? They hurt people and hide it. I am just trying to accept something I’ve not been able to fully accept.

I still go to Church at this point. I still bring my daughter to Church like I have every week. I am trying. But every new scandal makes it harder and harder.
 
Last edited:
DonnaNoble said:
I am not leaving Jesus because of Judas as people say. I am not leaving Jesus at all. I want to still be a Christian and follow Christ’s teachings. I am considering (haven’t left yet) leaving the the institution of the Church. And it’s more than just the few priests who did these horrible things. It’s the systematic and institutionalized protection of these men to the point where they were allowed to move around and find more victims. And this did not just happen not happen in one diocese, one state or even one county. It’s all over and reaches back for years.

The corruption goes so deep. How can I not question the system of governance that hid all this? Especially when by church standards, as I said before, I am a horrible sinful heretic because not because of what I’ve done (like these priests and bishops did), but my inability to fully accept the Church’s teachings. I almost feel like, how can they say I am the bad one? They hurt people and hide it. I am just trying to accept something I’ve not been able to fully accept.
Click to expand...
I completely understand and sometimes feel the same way.
 
It’s not a matter of “hope”, it’s a matter of the constant, traditional Catholic teaching on the way the sacraments work. Here’s the relevant passage in the Catechism:
CCC 1128 This is the meaning of the Church’s affirmation [49] that the sacraments act ex opere operato (literally: “by the very fact of the action’s being performed”), i.e., by virtue of the saving work of Christ, accomplished once for all. It follows that “the sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God.” [50] From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.

[49] Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1608.
[50] St. Thomas Aquinas, STh III, 68,8.
Click to expand...
 
Staying, but really fed up with the current leadership in the vatican and their ‘priorities’
 
You have no idea how the many points you so honestly bring up resonate with me.
 
Last edited:
Our late beloved priest used to tell those ready for Confirmation to go to Protestant churches and see the way they preach and teach Jesus. He didn’t want them wondering"What if…?" He didn’t want them doubting being Catholic.

If it’s the scandals in the Church that bother you so much, remember that there are scandals in Protestant churches and non-denominational churches as well. You just don’t hear about them as much.

No one is perfect. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. Jesus is our Savior.

The Church is a hospital for sinners where we meet with our Doctor, Jesus the Great Physician, each week, every day if possible, in His House and receive Him in the Eucharist.

When you doubt and feel weak in faith, call on His Name. He is there even when you don’t feel Him.

When you have doubts about the Eucharist being the Real Presence (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) of Christ, ask Him to help you believe. It’ll happen when you least expect it. Boy, will it! You will never see the Eucharist as a symbol again.

His Church will survive these scandals and everything Satan is throwing at her. We have His Promise that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

Place your faith in the King of Kings, the Lord of lords. He won’t let you down. He won’t let any of His own down.
 
Can you even imagine what would happen if we all started to read our Bibles and had our minds renewed? Awesome things!
 
As I look back over my tumultuous life, I see clearly that Catholicism has always been my ultimate truth. Now I must cling to it, harder than ever before, to make sense out of the turbulence which continues.
 
I’m sorry. But I could never abounded Jesus present in the Tabernacles of Our Churches. No other Church contains within itself the fullness of Christ. I could never leave and I will cling to our Church even if that meant I had to be executed for my faith.
 
Last edited:
" The Church has continued to reassert this teaching, especially in those times of crisis. In the Middle Ages, when clerical laxity was a problem in some areas, St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1224) taught, “The sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God” ( Summa Theologiae , III, 68, 8)."

“Therefore, the Church has taught that the sacraments act ex opere operato , that is “by the very fact of the action’s being performed.” The efficacy of the sacrament does not depend upon the human minister– whether a bishop, priest, deacon, or layperson– being free of mortal sin and thereby in a state of grace. Here then is the distinction between Christ who instituted the sacraments and acts through them to communicate His grace, and the human person who acts as Christ’s minister in performing the sacrament.”

" Christ who instituted the sacraments must be the one who actually works the sacrament, thereby giving us the assurance that the sacrament has indeed worked and conveyed the grace it signifies. If the efficacy depended upon the human minister, how could anyone of us be assured that the sacrament worked and we received the promised grace? Such assurance is not humanly obtainable."

If a priest is in the state of mortal sin, can he still offer the Mass and perform the other sacraments? - Catholic Straight Answers

When a sacrament is celebrated according to the norms of the Church and in faith, we believe that it confers the grace it signifies. While a human being is the minister of the sacrament, Christ Himself is the one who … Continued
catholicstraightanswers.com
 
Last edited:
Read Titus 1:5-9 and 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and let me know what you think?

I also have other questions for those of you dear ones who believe in what the Catholic Church says rather than what Jesus says: Where do you get your truth from? Do you read your Bible? Are you a Berean (see Acts 17:10-11)? If not, how do you know what you are believing is the truth?
 
Excuse me, but Catholics believe all of Jesus’ words.

As a devout Catholic, here are the answers to your questions as they pertain to me personally.

“Where do you get your truth from?”

Jesus and those who teach His Word correctly (His validly ordained priests in the Catholic Church).

“Do you read your Bible?”

Yes. The Holy Bible is my favorite book. I not only read and study Catholic Bibles but also have various Protestant Bibles which I use to compare Scripture. They are a good resource to have especially for those who only want to see verses from their preferred versions.

“Are you a Berean?”

While I do not consider myself an expert in Scripture, with the help of the Holy Spirit, I can hold my own when conversing with others about Scripture.

As I said before, the Holy Bible is my fav book. I enjoy studying it each day so that each verse and it’s meaning is written in my heart.

“If not, how do you know what you are believing is the truth?”

I believe and believe in Jesus. He never lies. The Catholic Church preaches, teaches, believes and lives Jesus.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top