Staying, Leaving?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hope1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
There is also a harsh penalty for the priests and God probably does it so the faithful are still able to receive the Sacraments.
 
Our priest does say condemnation when speaking of mortal sins to the kids. What word would you use in its place?
 
He is their priest.
And they have parents.
I ve already written what I think is more in line with building a relationship with Jesus for small children.
edited: we may have an interesting conversation about different approaches any other time. It is about approaches.
Sorry,I had trouble typing. It was very slow and interrupted.
 
Last edited:
I converted a year ago on the 100th anniversary of the Fatima apparitions. I don’t see that as a coincidence. I was practicing the Faith for two years before swimming the Tiber. So you could say I’ve been Catholic for three years.

All that to say I want to stay. But I’m sick to death of the hypocrisy and corruption and absolute garbage in the hierarchy, not to mention the hateful attitudes people can have.

God knows best.
 
13pollitos said:
40.png
gracepoole:
an accounting of how at least one of these problems was dealt with and settled over centuries
Click to expand...
This does not explain anything. It just means that this is how it’s always been done. Explain to me, or show me a link to somewhere that can, how a priest can act in Jesus’s place and provide valid sacraments when the rest of humanity is cut off from God when we are in a state of mortal sin. Not just can’t receive the sacraments, but cut off from God’s presence. How can it be reconciled that mortal sin cuts people off from the presence of God yet God allows some to act in persona Christi?
Click to expand...
At this point, you’re repeating the same concerns but not considering anything put forward to allay those concerns. It isn’t that “this is how it’s always been done,” as clearly demonstrated in the piece I shared. It’s that this question was wrestled with for centuries and was finally put to bed when the Church had thoroughly explored all arguments related to it. You’re asking a question that was asked by many over centuries — and it’s been answered. Ignoring the answer to repeatedly ask the question is disingenuous.
 
13pollitos said:
Yes they can, especially older children and teens. And every priest I’ve coordinated altar servers for over the years has had me remind our servers not to serve if they have committed a mortal sin without first confessing. Anyone over the age of reason has the ability to commit a mortal sin.

But I agree that it is very hard to see a child truly committing one. I can’t see God being so harsh to the child while still giving the abusive priest the ability to validly say Mass or the bishop to ordain either.
Click to expand...
This too is disingenuous. God wants all of us to be without mortal sin because He loves us, desires us to remain with Him, and mortal sin distances us from Him. Of course he wants children to be without mortal sin. He wants us all to be without it. You keep ignoring the fact that when a priest is in mortal sin, it’s Christ who is acting through him and confecting the sacraments.

You really need to speak with a trusted priest. Clinging to doubts rather than seeking answers will destroy faith.
 
As I said before, any doubts or reasons given for doubts are seen as either inaccurate or personal weaknesses. That doesn’t do much to help build faith. Especially in the wake of this scandal where there is not much trust left in priests or the hierarchy, which priests are the trusted priests? I trusted the priest that baptized my daughter only to learn two months later that he had credible allegations of sexual abuse against him in two different countries and a total of three dioceses in the US. He finally was recalled to his home diocese to face charges.

I have spoken about much more than I mentioned here to several priests. My cousin, my daughter’s godfather, a childhood friend, a former pastor — are all priests that I have spoken to. All have done better than just trying to show that this is right because the Church says so. You know what they did? They acknowledged that right now we just don’t know who can be trusted and that we may not actually be receiving valid sacraments at times. They have all told me that our hope is in God and that we can pray that He will not hold that against us because we are only doing the best that we know. They suggested praying for God to lead and the strength to follow wherever that may be. When asked why we should stay, they admit there are times they wonder that themselves.
 
13, you may be misunderstanding me. And I’m sure that’s my fault. I’m not attempting to dismiss your doubts out of hand. Much earlier in this thread, I said that things have changed in my views of the Church’s hierarchy. I’m staying but I know MANY who are not. Betrayal can be a powerful motivator. So I don’t view your doubts as “either inaccurate or personal weaknesses.” I do sense, though, that you may not be ready to resolve your doubts. Of course that’s a personal decision. If you’re not in a place where you can entertain the arguments of the Church and its answers to specific questions, I get it.

For what it’s worth, the number of priests who have been found guilty in my own life only keeps growing. I attended Catholic schools and can’t believe how many at my parish were involved in abusing others. My high school teacher of a religion class on sacraments is also one of them – the irony… I do understand the pain of trusting a priest only to realize you’ve been betrayed.
 
13pollitos said:
They acknowledged that right now we just don’t know who can be trusted and that we may not actually be receiving valid sacraments at times.
Click to expand...
I do have to take issue with this. Whether a lay person, a priest, or the pope made this claim, it’s just patently false unless the person issuing the sacrament hasn’t been rightly ordained.
 
In 2002 when this was supposed to have been fixed, there were several, including the bishop of my home diocese. It wasn’t so shocking about some of the priests because we all (kids we went to Catholic school with) found them creepy. The bishop was kind of shocking, though. But I accepted that the Church was working to fix their ways of dealing with this problem and that a process was put into place to avoid the cover ups and the moving abusers around making it easy for them to reoffend. It was different with the priest that baptized my daughter. She was baptized LAST YEAR. He was a member of a religious order, not diocesan, so is that what made it possible? I really don’t know. He was a missionary priest when the first allegation was made in South America, so he was moved to another South American country. After the second allegation, they moved him to the US. Next allegation, new diocese, next, new diocese again, and one more allegation before being moved to the one I baptized my daughter in. So far no allegations from there, but he was called back to his home diocese (or whatever the religious house is called) to finally face charges. This was last year. Not 2002. What has the Church actually done to fix the problem?
 
And we know that how? What is the proof that these priests are able to consecrate the Host and give absolution, or the bishops who are unrepentant are able to ordain even?

There are sins that call out for vengeance, and the Church has been protecting those committing those sins. How do we know God hasn’t finally said enough? Read about apparitions of Mary and visionary saints that have spoken of the tabernacle light being extinguished due to the unworthiness of the clergy. Are we in those days? I don’t know. That is why I continue to hold on and pray that God leads me where I need to be.
 
13pollitos said:
In 2002 when this was supposed to have been fixed, there were several, including the bishop of my home diocese. It wasn’t so shocking about some of the priests because we all (kids we went to Catholic school with) found them creepy. The bishop was kind of shocking, though. But I accepted that the Church was working to fix their ways of dealing with this problem and that a process was put into place to avoid the cover ups and the moving abusers around making it easy for them to reoffend. It was different with the priest that baptized my daughter. She was baptized LAST YEAR. He was a member of a religious order, not diocesan, so is that what made it possible? I really don’t know. He was a missionary priest when the first allegation was made in South America, so he was moved to another South American country. After the second allegation, they moved him to the US. Next allegation, new diocese, next, new diocese again, and one more allegation before being moved to the one I baptized my daughter in. So far no allegations from there, but he was called back to his home diocese (or whatever the religious house is called) to finally face charges. This was last year. Not 2002. What has the Church actually done to fix the problem?
Click to expand...
That is undeniably disgusting. I’m sure it doesn’t help but there have been massive changes in the Church in the last two decades. The training that anyone involved with children in the Church has to complete has been a start. A good one. It doesn’t solve the problems that exist with the hierarchy sheltering abusers. But perhaps now a true cleansing can occur at the demands of the laity.
 
Faultless and unrepentant abusers are two different things. I do not expect priests to be perfect.
 
The “proof”? What kind of proof would you like? I think it comes down to what it always comes down to: we trust the centuries of theologians wrestling with these problems and finding answers to them or we don’t. What “proof” do we have for the Ascension or the Assumption? What “proof” do we have for the power of the rosary? What “proof” do we have of transubstantiation?
 
Biblically there is proof of the Ascension, Assumption, power of prayer, the True Presence. Biblically, where can we see that God would allow the unrepentant, sexaually perverse priest to act in His place and hold His Body and Blood in their hands? Biblically we have proof that God is not a liar and that certain sins call out for His vengeance, and that those who commit them CAN NOT be in His presence. Where is there proof that exceptions are made for priests?
 
We, the people, are the Church.
Some of our priests and some of the church higher ups have failed in their calling. Let them be punished and let them ask for forgiveness from God.
At one time or another, all of us, have failed in some way.
I have gone to confession and received absolution.
I shall not leave the Church.
Instead, I shall pray for the Church!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top