Staying, Leaving?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hope1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’ve also heard that the Eucharist is valid regardless of the state of the soul of the priest, Bishops, etc, but I worry about the truth of that. If we are unable to receive due to mortal sin, how is the priest able to validly consecrate the Host in a state of mortal sin? Why am I told to remind our altar servers that they should not serve at Mass if in a state of mortal sin, but the priest may very well still SAY Mass and it would be alright? It seems hypocritical that our children have been being held to a higher standard than our clergy in that regard.
 
13pollitos said:
Alright. I first started feeling the Church moving away from Christ when Pope Francis called the couple in Argentina and told them they could receive the Eucharist although their marriage was invalid. I dismissed it because the Vatican never confirmed those reports. Then the off the cuff remarks about contraception might be alright in the Zika crisis, and the mother of 8 that sparked his “breeding like rabbits” comments. Then the whole remarrige and Communion fiasco. Then the death penalty changes. Many other comments and just odd feelings, refusals to answer questions that would clear up confusion. It got me looking back over Church history and learning that if the Apostles were among us today, they would be very confused with the way things are.
Click to expand...
Ok. Thanks for answering.
 
13pollitos said:
I’ve also heard that the Eucharist is valid regardless of the state of the soul of the priest, Bishops, etc, but I worry about the truth of that. If we are unable to receive due to mortal sin, how is the priest able to validly consecrate the Host in a state of mortal sin? Why am I told to remind our altar servers that they should not serve at Mass if in a state of mortal sin, but the priest may very well still SAY Mass and it would be alright? It seems hypocritical that our children have been being held to a higher standard than our clergy in that regard.
Click to expand...
Good point. And since the recent scandal, I’m not really confident that priests have any right to judge whether I’m in a state of venial or mortal sin anymore.
 
I agree. It is very difficult to rebuild trust in people, especially those in authority over us, when they refuse to communicate, make needed amends, or even make any visible effort to accept responsibility. There are some very holy priests out there and they are suffering even more than is. It is so unfortunate that they are generally being regarded as complicit; however, how are we supposed to know who is real and who is two faced? The priest that baptized my daughter is a known child abuser. How was he still around well after the 2002 scandal? I really liked him and thought he was a great man and great priest. It has caused me to question my own judgement and ability to keep my children safe.
 
13pollitos said:
I agree. It is very difficult to rebuild trust in people, especially those in authority over us, when they refuse to communicate, make needed amends, or even make any visible effort to accept responsibility. There are some very holy priests out there and they are suffering even more than is. It is so unfortunate that they are generally being regarded as complicit; however, how are we supposed to know who is real and who is two faced? The priest that baptized my daughter is a known child abuser. How was he still around well after the 2002 scandal? I really liked him and thought he was a great man and great priest. It has caused me to question my own judgement and ability to keep my children safe.
Click to expand...
I used to put priests up on a pedestal, which might’ve been wrong of me, but anyway, I don’t know which ones to trust anymore.
 
Hope1960 said:
40.png
13pollitos:
and I often wonder if the Eucharist is tainted or valid at all due to the state of the hierarchy at the moment.
Click to expand...
I keep wondering about the validity of the Eucharist, too, but I’ve been told, here on CAF, that the Eucharist is still valid. I hope someone can link us to something that backs that belief up.
Click to expand...
You mean like this?

 
13pollitos said:
Alright. I first started feeling the Church moving away from Christ when Pope Francis called the couple in Argentina and told them they could receive the Eucharist although their marriage was invalid. I dismissed it because the Vatican never confirmed those reports. Then the off the cuff remarks about contraception might be alright in the Zika crisis, and the mother of 8 that sparked his “breeding like rabbits” comments. Then the whole remarrige and Communion fiasco. Then the death penalty changes. Many other comments and just odd feelings, refusals to answer questions that would clear up confusion. It got me looking back over Church history and learning that if the Apostles were among us today, they would be very confused with the way things are.
Click to expand...
Putting aside the accuracy of the points you’ve raised, none of this changes the True Presence of Christ in the Mass. None of it changes that Christ told us the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church. We’ve had popes who’ve had mistresses and children, who attempted to split the Church by becoming anti-popes, who essentially purchased the papacy by bribing cardinals, who championed the brutal murders of cardinals who opposed them… Again: these are men, not the Church.
 
I guess I’m the odd one out. Although I believed in God and went to Catholic schools for 20 years, due to personal reasons, I didn’t feel invested in it. Watching the Shroud of Turin 2 years ago had a very strong impact on me because I have come to believe in its authenticity and a miracle that we are all privileged to see.

But despite that, although I knew of the concept of the Devil, I never really internalized and accepted it. The recent abuse scandals otoh had such a profound effect on me in making me accept and believe in the Devil and Satan. Previously, I never really truly believed they existed. They were abstract notions far from me, superstition even. I have this very strong feeling that the problems with the Church, the abuses inside, and the attacks and bigotry in Western countries comes from the Devil. And it’s strange but I believe this so strongly and it was like a sudden realization and fear. Believing this has brought me back and even much closer to the Church, to God, as if He was calling me home to my family and to defend it in prayer, example, and to have a relationship with my Church.

So I wonder if others have had this calling, this calling to defend the Church because of these abuses and have an inherent feeling that the Devil is behind this? I have been praying so much, the rosary daily, and the one inherent pivotal focus of my prayer is THE CHURCH.

Strangely, I also have a feeling that what is happening can also benefit the Church in purifying itself so that it may lead in its campaign to fight the evil in so many institutions. Because this issue is prevalent and even a lot worse in other institutions and I think the Church, the first among all others needs this purification to lead us in purging our culture of the evil that has seeped into everything, us as individuals and as a community included. So we may need to ‘clean our room’ first before we clean others.
 
Last edited:
nenabunena said:
I guess I’m the odd one out. Although I believed in God and went to Catholic schools for 20 years, due to personal reasons, I didn’t feel invested in it. Watching the Shroud of Turin 2 years ago had a very strong impact on me because I have come to believe in its authenticity and a miracle that we are all privileged to see.

But despite that, although I knew of the concept of the Devil, I never really internalized and accepted it. The recent abuse scandals otoh had such a profound effect on me in making me accept and believe in the Devil and Satan. Previously, I never really truly believed the existed. They were abstract notions far from me, superstition even. I have this very strong feeling that the problems with the Church, the abuses inside, and the attacks and bigotry in Western countries comes from the Devil. And it’s strange but I believe this so strongly and it was like a sudden realization and fear. Believing this has brought me back and even much closer to the Church, to God, as if He was calling me home to my family and to defend it in prayer, example, and to have a relationship with my Church.

So I wonder if others have had this calling, this calling to defend the Church because of these abuses and have an inherent feeling that the Devil is behind this? I have been praying so much, the rosary daily, and the one inherent pivotal focus of my prayer is THE CHURCH.

Strangely, I also have a feeling that what is happening can also benefit the Church in purifying itself so that it may lead in its campaign to fight the evil in so many institutions. Because this issue is prevalent and even a lot worse in other institutions and I think the Church, the first among all others needs this purification to lead us in purging our culture of the evil that has seeped into everything, us as individuals and as a community included. So we may need to ‘clean our room’ first before we clean others.
Click to expand...
Yes! I have had that calling! And I also believe that the Church can be and must be purified. I, too, believed that Satan wasn’t much more than a superstition. I remained Catholic for a long time because I wanted to believe but I didn’t truly. Experiences like the current situation (and every single Lent now) have caused me to believe very differently. You aren’t alone! 🙂
 
Yes! I have had that calling! And I also believe that the Church can be and must be purified. I, too, believed that Satan wasn’t much more than a superstition. I remained Catholic for a long time because I wanted to believe but I didn’t truly. Experiences like the current situation (and every single Lent now) have caused me to believe very differently. You aren’t alone! 🙂
Click to expand...
I have never felt closer to the Church as I do now. Strange how something like this has strengthened my faith. Even the many beliefs I have/had that may go against Church teachings, I’m reconsidering them now. And I’m ceasing to be what I was but instead I’m becoming even more Catholic.

It’s nice to know I’m not alone and there are others who feel as strongly as I do, I can only imagine God behind such feelings of devotion despite this turbulence.😃
 
I seriously could have written that post myself. :hugs:

May God continue to bless you.
 
I’m not leaving, either. It took me a long time before I became a convert. Finally made it to here. I love my Catholic church and my Catholic faith. The bad-mouthers couldn’t get me to leave if they set fire to the place while I’m sitting in it.
 
Hope1960 said:
40.png
gracepoole:
You mean like this?

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/invalid-masses
Click to expand...
Interesting, but it doesn’t address the scandal, specifically.
Click to expand...
First, it doesn’t have to. There’s no need to account for every contingency when the overwhelming number of Masses said are valid and the number that are legitimately invalid is so small. That’s the result of what makes a Mass valid.

Second, given what Akin explains about what makes a Mass and the consecration of Eucharist valid, what, specifically, has changed given the current scandal?
 
gracepoole said:
Second, given what Akin explains about what makes a Mass and the consecration of Eucharist valid, what, specifically, has changed given the current scandal?
Click to expand...
I just am unsure that God would allow those priests to consecrate the Eucharist.
 
Hope1960 said:
40.png
gracepoole:
Second, given what Akin explains about what makes a Mass and the consecration of Eucharist valid, what, specifically, has changed given the current scandal?
Click to expand...
I just am unsure that God would allow those priests to consecrate the Eucharist.
Click to expand...
Check this out:

canonlawmadeeasy.com

Pedophile Priests and Sacramental Validity

Q: At a family reunion this summer, we learned that the priest who had married my cousin and her husband has been removed from the parish. He was accused of pedophilia or some other sexual impropr…
canonlawmadeeasy.com
 
Why? The source’s final sentences say it all: “[T]he sacraments don’t hinge on our personal holiness. They work through God’s grace, and that’s quite enough to do it right.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top