Staying Married after Infidelity by Wife

[mavdragon]

Why did you decide to do otherwise, and be selfish and hurt your kids too?

This is a very vague question and it is hard to answer since we are talking about several things all at once. If you haven’t been betrayed by someone you love deeply and trust completely you couldn’t understand the pain and emotions associated with it. When you are hurt that deeply your defense mechanism kicks in and doesn’t care about anyone or anything else. It just wants to protect you from being hurt again. with a rational mind free from this pain and a tide of emotions we all can make the no brainer choice to protect our wife and our kids. I went about 2 and a half years keeping my wife’s secret from my kids, but at a moment when I was angry and being rejected by my wife and the kids had just seen another episode of angry Dad arguing with mom I couldn’t keep the secret any more. My kids were clueless as to why I might be acting this way. I had to explain it to them or I felt they would blame only me for what was happening.

What did you gain from telling the people that know your wife about her sin?

what I gained was deep friendships by revealing my situation to those closest to me. You can’t just tell people that my wife and I are having problems. The first thing they ask is “what happened?” Her sin is what happened. Anything else I tell them would be a lie. Now as to why did I go outside the priesthood and my wife? For one, my wife refuses to be honest with me. The priests I did talk to did not seem to understand. I did not have any deep trusted friendships to lean on for support. The people I did know had not gone thru the things I was going thru. I had to try and find some kind of help. I was not well versed in the resources available from our church. I went to a priest who said go talk to the deacon. The deacon said goto this retrouvaille program. I did follow there advice up to this point and nothing changed. my wife backed out of the final retrouvaille post session and was cheating on me the entire time we were supposedly working on our marriage. After expending the help that was available from my home parish, I reached out to a neighboring parish. This priest simple told us to pray together. We did that for about a week and I pushed to deep too fast and probably very controlling and I could see she was not trying or responding. I didn’t realize her crisis of faith until this point.

What did you gain by telling your kids?

I gained my kids trust by telling them the truth.

why don’t you ask your wife “If you no longer want to be with me, what’s keeping you from leaving? The door is open.”
E_7;13208051:

I have asked her to leave if she doesn’t want to be with me. She says she can’t leave the house or she will lose her kids when she divorces me. When asked when she is going to divorce me she says either nothing or something like these things take time. or very soon. but never gives me a day. one time she said in two weeks I will get the divorce papers and it’s now 12 weeks since then.
E_7;13208051:

And I strongly recommend you go to her and tell her to forgive you, and that you won’t watch porn ever again. First, humility in front of her to recognize that you did wrong and hurt the marriage once (or twice…or more). And get the software too.

I have asked her forgiveness so many times I lost count. I don’t know If i specifically told her that I would never watch porn ever again. I did mention I had a change of heart about what I had done and was trying to get free of it. I have since recruited a friend of mine to be my accountability partner whom I would call if I’m tempted or if I have failed. I stopped watching rated R movies. I have been chaste now for almost a month straight.
I have read several books on the subject and watched several chastity talks on youtube.
I believe she will start to see my masculinity return as I remain pure. The software doesn’t prevent being impure with yourself. I have never needed porn to fall. I have enough porn in my head from previous viewing to last a life time. really if you have not fallen to this addiction you don’t know what it’s like.

 

[mavdragon]

Wow, that is a lot of conflicting advice you’ve gotten from the priests! I’m really surprised that a Catholic priest suggested a one month vacation from God – that sounds very unlike any priest I’ve ever met.

I was a little taken back by it myself. But the meaning of it is not as plain as all that. I have been possibly spending too much time being spiritual in the estimation of this priest. hours of catholic videos, confession, daily mass, reading spiritual books, attending two bible study men’s groups a week at one point I was in three a week. I think he was just trying to let me know that I don’t need to pursue God with such a fury. God is already with me and he is pursuing me.

 

[mavdragon]

you’re right, it generally doesn’t. If the basic “shame” of commandments and social norms don’t do it…“outing” the situation to everyone in the community at large only convinces them that they are justified in their actions.
That’s probably why many people were consulted, included 9 or 10 priests. There was never the answer that the OP wanted, nor did anything change. It only got worse.

You don’t understand. I didn’t out her the moment it happened. I was discreet in the beginning. After 2 and a half years of unrepentant untrustworthy behavior I couldn’t keep her secret any more and I didn’t think keeping it a secret was the best thing for her since see seemed to be enjoying herself with all the anonymity. My keeping things a secret just empowered her fantasy.

I wore out the ear of the first priest and he said he had nothing more he could tell me. He practically referred me to other priests. sometimes it takes a while to find a priest who either has the experience or who you have a connection with. I still don’t thing I’ve talked to the right priest yet. maybe a priest who used to be married and had his wife cheat on him might be able to understand.

 

[mavdragon]

but for other people in the same situation, I would say listen to your priest and listen to your therapist and do exactly what they say with regard to disclosure and wording.

priests and counselors can only show you the door, they cannot make you walk thru it, and they aren’t infallible. ultimately we have to take what advice and council they give us and we need to make our own decisions. Even a priest or councilor or therapist will tell you this. They aren’t living our lives. They can’t ever have as much information about our lives as we do.

Even if you agree with them which I did and believe what they are telling you is the truth, which I did. still in a moment of extreme hurt the taker takes over and all that matters is to stop hurting even if it means hurting others. I’m not saying that extreme pain is an excuse to do anything, i’m saying it really muddies the water.

 

[mavdragon]

Did you actually read the article by the researcher/professor? Might have helped your understanding.

Your answers assume the children know nothing… specifically here “Mom” is sleeping on the couch… for months… Kids are not stupid. Not telling the kids the truth gently leaves them to imagine what is happening.

Oversharing, who said over sharing… certainly telling too much is always not wise but it has not been mentioned in this thread. Who said to use Children as confidant and therapist? Leaning on minor children for emotional support… where did you see that written? To give advice based on, imagining details and expounding on those situations that were created only in your post and not mentioned as advice or by the poster is unproductive. It also deceives and taints the (name removed by moderator)ut of those joining now who may see your commentary and think the poster or someone giving advice actually said those things you addressed.

Ironically, it also impacts the reputation of the original poster seeking advice by insinuating those things were happening when you do not know they were.

Hydin,

Thank you so much for pointing out the error in that post. Thank you for reading carefully and with understanding.

 

[PolarGuy]

With due respect, Mav, a priest is about the worst person you can go to with this, for reasons you sort of identify: they’re by nature unmarried.

The likelihood that you will “find a priest who was previously married and whose wife cheated on him” is about as close to zero as you can get.

It also highlights the limitations of seeking out a priest with problems like: they have little to say, and little to offer.

If I had a marital problem, I’d seek counsel from a couple married many years - including at least one non-Christian couple I can think of - years before I went to a priest for advice.

 

[mavdragon]

Again, a wronged spouse should work with their priest and therapist with regard to saying anything to children (minor or adult) and work out exact wording. This is not something to do without expert (name removed by moderator)ut when one is feeling distraught.

I did get expert (name removed by moderator)ut. I possibly used very poor timing, but I choose my words well.

The OP has been very indiscreet–he told virtually everybody that is close to either him or his wife.

please don’t use terms like virtually everybody. This is a very broad term and does not accurately describe what happened. It only reveals hate for what is perceived to be some wrong on my part. There are people I would not and could not tell about this, because they would not understand or they would add a whole lot more to it like people are doing on this forum.

Correction, FRATERNAL, is here taken to mean the admonishing of one’s neighbor by a private individual with the purpose of reforming him or, if possible, preventing his sinful indulgence.

It’s not fraternal correction to share a wife’s sins with a dozen people.

The bible says to correct your brother and if you win him over then you have won your brother. If he still won’t listen, bring one or two witnesses to determine all the facts. If he still won’t listen tell it to the church.

I had already done both steps one and two and still my wife is unrepentant. Talking to priests and deacons and other Catholics is telling it to the church. I’m reaching out to the body of Christ by talking to priests and other good Catholic parishioners.

the final step is to treat him like a tax collector or sinner. I have come to this point. and some people misread this to mean you act badly to the tax collect because they were very bad people. No, what Jesus means by that statement is to treat them like he did. With kindness and compassion to win them over with love and to listen to them.

 

[Still_Hoping]

There are so many conflicting opinions here. It seems Mavdragon you know the answer already. Now you just need the courage to do what is right. You have a conscience like the rest of us, you know God and His Church, you are repentant and forgiving so what is left. Look at your children see what changes this situation is placing upon them then you should be able to see better.

 

[Still_Hoping]

As for those who posted here who are against exposing someone else’s misdeeds, what you are saying is that one should either keep it to themselves or be discreet. Let me remind you what is said in the bible about an unrepentant Christian.

Matthew 18:15-22

If your brother sins go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as Gentile and a tax collector.

James 5:16

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

After having confronted your sister, following through the counsel given in Matthew 18, she does not repent then it is counseled as such in the following passages:

Titus 3:10-11

Reject a fractious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet **do not **regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Matthew 19:9English Standard Version (ESV)

9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Matthew 5:32English Standard Version (ESV)

32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery

 

[pianistclare]

You don’t understand. I didn’t out her the moment it happened. I was discreet in the beginning. After 2 and a half years of unrepentant untrustworthy behavior I couldn’t keep her secret any more and I didn’t think keeping it a secret was the best thing for her since see seemed to be enjoying herself with all the anonymity. My keeping things a secret just empowered her fantasy.

I wore out the ear of the first priest and he said he had nothing more he could tell me. He practically referred me to other priests. sometimes it takes a while to find a priest who either has the experience or who you have a connection with. I still don’t thing I’ve talked to the right priest yet. maybe a priest who used to be married and had his wife cheat on him might be able to understand.

Sorry, I don’t buy that. he got tired of hearing you talk about it without an concrete action on your part. He passed you off. Sorry but that’s how it looks.
A priest who had a cheating wife?
Are you kidding?
That’s just too bizarre a statement, even for THIS thread.

 

[on_the_hill]

So, mavdragon, in the final analysis, why stay married? If I were in your position I’d throw in the towel. Move out. File divorce papers. It’s over.

You’re not doing anyone any favors by continuing to martyr yourself this way, and you’re more than likely hurting the people you ostensibly care about most.

 

[Still_Hoping]

I don’t understand the hostility here. Unless one has been cheated on, you cannot possibly understand the emotional and spiritual turmoil it causes. As for Mavdragon, only he knows what is best to do. If there is any reticence then he has doubt and one should pray for the doubt to be dispelled so that he may see more clearly. Also, I can say with most assurance that the only good advice a priest can give in this situation are to point out the rules and laws concerning marriage in the CC. That is about it.

Stop telling him to go here or there. I think he is educated enough on the CCC and bible teaching. Now he has to make a serious decision and own up to it. As for the wife, she needs HELP! Do not feel sorry for her, do not excuse her behavior, do not control her or intimidate her or make her feel guilty; shame yes but it is up to her to own up to it or else let it be.

 

[mavdragon]

Matthew 19:9English Standard Version (ESV)

9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Matthew 5:32English Standard Version (ESV)

32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery

I don’t believe the ESV is recommended by the catholic church. but that is neither here nor there. what this version seems to say is that a wife can be divorced because of sexual immorality.

Please read this version from the ignatious study bible.
mt 5:32 same verse

But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes here an adulteress, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

in the study notes it clarifies what the ground of unchastity is.

unchastity. The Greek word used here appears to refer to marriages that were not legally marriages because they were either withing the forbidden degrees of consanguinity (lev18:6-16) or contracted with a Gentile. The phrase except on the ground of unchastity does not occue in the parrallel passage in Lk 16:18. see also mk 10:11-12, and especially 1 cor 7:10-11 which shows that the prohibition is unconditional

Consanguinity (“blood relation”, from the Latin consanguinitas) is the property of being from the same kinship as another person. In that aspect, consanguinity is the quality of being descended from the same ancestor as another person.

so you can only divorce a wife if she’s like your cousin. Not for Sexual un-repented adultery.

 

[Still_Hoping]

Catholic Answers has this to say about this scripture:

What may appear as a loophole is a consequence of misinterpretation or mistranslation. The King James Version and others translate the passage into English words that appear to say fornication, unchastity, or adultery are exceptions that allow a divorce.

The constant teaching of the Church has been that a valid sacramental marriage can not be broken, even if one party sins. As Matthew 19:6 says, “Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” Biblical scholars, such as J. Bonsirven, have pointed out that the Greek word that is pivotal here is “porneia,” which means unlawful sexual intercourse. The Gospel does not use the Greek word “moicheia,” which is the ordinary Greek word for adultery.

The intent appears to be to distinguish a true marriage from concubinage. What is being said is that if a man and a woman are in fact married, the bond is inseparable. But if they are not married, just “living together,” then there is no lawful marriage and there can be a separation or annulment. The wording of the New American Bible for Matthew 19:9 is a translation that gives us this sense.
catholic.com/quickquestions/does-jesus-leave-a-loophole-for-divorce-in-matthew-199

It seems there is some confusion? How could the early church annul an unlawful marriage; I take it to mean that the unlawful marriage is not recognized by the Church. Furthermore, it is different than the explanation you cited. We both cited from Catholic sites.

Here is the New Advent version:
9 And I tell you that he who puts away his wife, not for any unfaithfulness of hers, and so marries another, commits adultery; and he too commits adultery, who marries her after she has been put away.[2]

[2] vv. 1-9: Mk. 10.1; cf. Mt. 5.32; Lk. 16.18; I Cor. 7.10. v. 9: The apparent exception made here in connexion with unfaithfulness, not recognized in Mark or Luke, or by St Paul, has been variously explained. It is to be observed in any case that our Lord is speaking of the man who puts away his innocent wife in order to marry another (this is often the force of the Hebrew ‘and’). He considers the case of the guilty husband with the innocent wife, and that of the innocent husband with the guilty wife; not that of the man who has a guilty wife and himself wants a change of partners. Thus it would be unsafe to infer that the husband has a right to re-marry.
newadvent.org/bible/mat019.htm

 

[pianistclare]

**Divorce is not forbidden in the Catholic Church. **
You can’t remarry without an annulment.
I can’t believe not one of those many priests told you that.

 

[Still_Hoping]

**Divorce is not forbidden in the Catholic Church. **
You can’t remarry without an annulment.
I can’t believe not one of those many priests told you that.

Priests are not in the habit of giving that option and will not necessarily instruct you how to go about an annulment unless you demand it. Then, if you ask for one, there are certain conditions you must meet.

 

[pianistclare]

Priests are not in the habit of giving that option and will not necessarily instruct you how to go about an annulment unless you demand it. Then, if you ask for one, there are certain conditions you must meet.

Of course.
But in the case of incredibly difficult marriages, priests do tell people the truth. Burying your head in the sand rarely is fruitful. Would you want a priest to counsel an abused woman (or man) to stay in a terrible marriage? Of course not. Safety and mandatory reporting preclude this.

Most people do not “demand” an annulment. (What an odd way to say it). We see people seeking annulments mostly in the conversion process.
Many Catholics just don’t remarry. Or if they do, they feel the process is too difficult and wrongly proceed to remarry without even inquiring if one may be obtained.
Much of the Deacon and priests workload is counseling people through the annulment process.
Divorce does not prevent one from partaking of the sacraments.

 

[Xantippe]

As for those who posted here who are against exposing someone else’s misdeeds, what you are saying is that one should either keep it to themselves or be discreet. Let me remind you what is said in the bible about an unrepentant Christian.

That’s all very well, but it’s not consistent with marital reconciliation.

A marital reconciliation would mean establishing love and trust and intimacy. One can’t simultaneously

1. share private information about a spouse’s sins with a large circle of friends and family

and

1. have an intimate, trusting, loving relationship with the erring spouse.

It may be that #2 is impossible for any given individual, but as long as one is actively pursuing #2, #1 is out of the question. #1 renders #2 impossible, at least for the foreseeable future. As long as there is no privacy in the relationship, there can be no emotional intimacy.

One cannot pursue those two paths (publicity and intimacy) at the same time. I would myself only go to #1 if I had lost all hope of marital reconciliation.

 

[mavdragon]

**Divorce is not forbidden in the Catholic Church. **
You can’t remarry without an annulment.
I can’t believe not one of those many priests told you that.

As I noted in a previous post, one priest gave me permission to Divorce. I don’t believe this is in line with the teachings of the Catholic church. But I’m sure he had his reasons for what he was advising.

All other priests discouraged divorce, but none explicitly forbid it. The catholic church teachings are in line with what the bible says about Divorce, that it is indissoluble. However they have a tribunal to determine if a valid marriage ever existed in the first place. They do not make this determination before couples get divorced. Also the Church doesn’t condemn people for divorcing, it tries to love them and help them reconcile if possible.

Our religion, the Catholic Faith is the only christian faith that doesn’t allow people to change spouses like underwear.

 

[pianistclare]

As I noted in a previous post, one priest gave me permission to Divorce. I don’t believe this is in line with the teachings of the Catholic church. But I’m sure he had his reasons for what he was advising.

**Except for he was your confessor, and his advice should not dismissed so easily. **

All other priests discouraged divorce, but none explicitly forbid it. **Of course not. They probably thought you two had a chance for reconciliation. **The catholic church teachings are in line with what the bible says about Divorce, that it is indissoluble. **You mean marriage, right? **However they have a tribunal to determine if a valid marriage ever existed in the first place. They do not make this determination before couples get divorced. Also the Church doesn’t condemn people for divorcing, it tries to love them and help them reconcile if possible. **Sure. 10 or so have tried to help. When is it beyond repair? **

Our religion, the Catholic Faith is the only christian faith that doesn’t allow people to change spouses like underwear.

Right. But if staying together means you publicly place a scarlett letter on her for everyone to know about…you are committing a sin yourself.
Which is more acceptable to you? Living a life of misery, or divorcing with no hope of reconciliation and building a life as best you can?
It is worthy to continue to fuel this awful arrangement you have with her wherein you get to talk about her and she digs in her heels to make you suffer?

I do think there is something about dusting your sandals off when there is no hope of conversion.

Either the situation is fixable or it isn’t.
It’s really not that hard. It’s been 2 years. If 10 priests and some marriage counselors have not been able to help you fix it, is it irreparable? Or is only your wife unwilling to get it fixed?
There’s not really any option except to accept it and move on, or stay there and keep your mouth shut about it.

Trashing her to your friends and strangers on the internet, again, is not going to make her view you favorably, and will not be conducive to a reconciliation.

It appears SHE has made her decision.