M
mavdragon
Guest
How do I find a mediator?
- Status
E
E_7
Guest
Do not sign the papers.
E
E_7
Guest
Oh that’s how it is? I don’t know about divorce papers except of when I see it in the movies where you just sign and that’s all it takes to be divorced.
O
on_the_hill
Guest
I guess it had to come to an end somehow.
K
Kuzco
Guest
I’m terribly sorry to read this… My thoughts are with you and your family.
Endure.
A
Adamski
Guest
regarding the divorce papers I am very sorry but keep in mind you are really doing the beat you can keep up the good work
H
hydin
Guest
Sorry I have been away from this post. It has been a strange week.
Sorry to hear the divorce papers news. Been there. Seriously. Breathe. I will give advice for the divorce side of things and the Catholic side in this post I will also answer any I mean any questions you have but best done through private messages. Dates are extremely important. all state laws are different check yours… I had a time period to respond but the clock was also ticking on getting the first financial affidavit in to her lawyers. If they play hardball they will enforce the dates strictly. Miss the dates and they go with her information. Never had a separation hearing. Most will. It sets the tone for the separation and process. Remember, anything you agree to at this hearing as far as custody or visitation matters. Usually it is hard to get what visitation is set for during the separation changed for the final. Judge figures kids are in a routine, why change it. If you want 50/50 gotta go for it now. As someone else said, get a lawyer. One around my location advertises as it represents men. Lawyer makes a huge difference. Hate to say it but you want a tough lawyer. you can always ease up. A soft spoken lawyer can’t toughen up.
Lies will be told, expect them. If you don’t have that portable recorder check local laws and get one. If she leaves the house to stay somewhere else, change your locks… Do not let her leave with any bank or employment documents until you get a copy. Separate credit cards too… you want to trust her. but can’t at this point. protect yourself and your kids. Keep records of everything you buy and she buys. you can use that when the division of property comes if she takes too much… Sad part about not filling first is (not saying you should have… just fact) she controls the calendar and you have to supply all documentation she requests, even if it is joint like bank records, checking accounts, house info, and charge cards. If you are late they can hammer… if they are late with your info not much you can do since they control the court dates etc. They do not have to give you extra time to submit and yours is due first. If they are late you have already submitted your stuff and they normally are the ones getting the court dates set.
So, copy all documents asap… if she gets them and you do not have a copy it will be hell on you. If she lies and says she does not have them or can’t find them.your due date is the same… tax returns will be required with all back up for a number of years. all bank statements, credit card statements and anything that establishes financial worth and income is required. Lawyer can explain it. FYI in almost all states you do not have to sign to get divorced… no fault… not signing usually does not change your due dates. The service date - when you were handed the papers- usually starts the clock. Takes two to marry and one to divorce.
Know one thing, you will survive this. Now read the Al turtle article on what to do when she leaves… and do exactly what it says. Know she will not think of you as a nice guy if you give in to her or make it easy on her. I made a statement early on that the divorce is a pure business negotiation. The relationship is totally separate. She will not come back to you because you gave her extras… she will laugh and take advantage of you. Love her, pray for her. Be very cordial and nice to her when you see her. when dealing with agreements, they are only as good as the paper they are written on. talk is not an agreement. never forget that if you change one item in an offer she makes to you, then everything is open for change… just because you agree to give her something early because you really want something else- one change means all items are open to change.
Take photos of every room so you can go back and check for missing things.
Make sure you print a document called “the list” here is a link… or search the list divorce men and it will come up. this is cordell and cordell men’s lawyer site… I didn’t use them but would if it happened after I knew about them… Do what the list says… it is famous and accurate… Here is the link.
forum.mensdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?t=13374
Pray, trust God. Allow Him to help you get by… I will relate a story later about my “help” from Him… Nothing concerning the divorce, just keeping my spirits up… Nothing you do should not be aimed at reconciliation if that is your goal. NO REACTIONS. Remember your goal… If she is mean…OUCH is a great response. Any other response just confirms her leaving.
Let me know if you want me to send you the Church documents on divorce. She is required to get Bishop approval for Separation with bond remaining. reconciling is always the goal for a Catholic. Filling for Divorce can be a mortal sin. it is a Grave Offense… remarrying “adds to the Graveness”. There is an innocent party free from moral offense… (CCC). Not that it helps but it is the truth. For moral issues, not knowing the church teaching is not a factor in Mortal sin. We have many divorced and not remarried who are in mortal sin but don’t think they are. Even after abuse, when danger is no longer a factor, spouses are to reconcile.
see next post hit word limit…
Sorry to hear the divorce papers news. Been there. Seriously. Breathe. I will give advice for the divorce side of things and the Catholic side in this post I will also answer any I mean any questions you have but best done through private messages. Dates are extremely important. all state laws are different check yours… I had a time period to respond but the clock was also ticking on getting the first financial affidavit in to her lawyers. If they play hardball they will enforce the dates strictly. Miss the dates and they go with her information. Never had a separation hearing. Most will. It sets the tone for the separation and process. Remember, anything you agree to at this hearing as far as custody or visitation matters. Usually it is hard to get what visitation is set for during the separation changed for the final. Judge figures kids are in a routine, why change it. If you want 50/50 gotta go for it now. As someone else said, get a lawyer. One around my location advertises as it represents men. Lawyer makes a huge difference. Hate to say it but you want a tough lawyer. you can always ease up. A soft spoken lawyer can’t toughen up.
Lies will be told, expect them. If you don’t have that portable recorder check local laws and get one. If she leaves the house to stay somewhere else, change your locks… Do not let her leave with any bank or employment documents until you get a copy. Separate credit cards too… you want to trust her. but can’t at this point. protect yourself and your kids. Keep records of everything you buy and she buys. you can use that when the division of property comes if she takes too much… Sad part about not filling first is (not saying you should have… just fact) she controls the calendar and you have to supply all documentation she requests, even if it is joint like bank records, checking accounts, house info, and charge cards. If you are late they can hammer… if they are late with your info not much you can do since they control the court dates etc. They do not have to give you extra time to submit and yours is due first. If they are late you have already submitted your stuff and they normally are the ones getting the court dates set.
So, copy all documents asap… if she gets them and you do not have a copy it will be hell on you. If she lies and says she does not have them or can’t find them.your due date is the same… tax returns will be required with all back up for a number of years. all bank statements, credit card statements and anything that establishes financial worth and income is required. Lawyer can explain it. FYI in almost all states you do not have to sign to get divorced… no fault… not signing usually does not change your due dates. The service date - when you were handed the papers- usually starts the clock. Takes two to marry and one to divorce.
Know one thing, you will survive this. Now read the Al turtle article on what to do when she leaves… and do exactly what it says. Know she will not think of you as a nice guy if you give in to her or make it easy on her. I made a statement early on that the divorce is a pure business negotiation. The relationship is totally separate. She will not come back to you because you gave her extras… she will laugh and take advantage of you. Love her, pray for her. Be very cordial and nice to her when you see her. when dealing with agreements, they are only as good as the paper they are written on. talk is not an agreement. never forget that if you change one item in an offer she makes to you, then everything is open for change… just because you agree to give her something early because you really want something else- one change means all items are open to change.
Take photos of every room so you can go back and check for missing things.
Make sure you print a document called “the list” here is a link… or search the list divorce men and it will come up. this is cordell and cordell men’s lawyer site… I didn’t use them but would if it happened after I knew about them… Do what the list says… it is famous and accurate… Here is the link.
forum.mensdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?t=13374
Pray, trust God. Allow Him to help you get by… I will relate a story later about my “help” from Him… Nothing concerning the divorce, just keeping my spirits up… Nothing you do should not be aimed at reconciliation if that is your goal. NO REACTIONS. Remember your goal… If she is mean…OUCH is a great response. Any other response just confirms her leaving.
Let me know if you want me to send you the Church documents on divorce. She is required to get Bishop approval for Separation with bond remaining. reconciling is always the goal for a Catholic. Filling for Divorce can be a mortal sin. it is a Grave Offense… remarrying “adds to the Graveness”. There is an innocent party free from moral offense… (CCC). Not that it helps but it is the truth. For moral issues, not knowing the church teaching is not a factor in Mortal sin. We have many divorced and not remarried who are in mortal sin but don’t think they are. Even after abuse, when danger is no longer a factor, spouses are to reconcile.
see next post hit word limit…
H
hydin
Guest
Breathe. keep breathing. This very well could be a good thing for you and her… or just you, in the end. Work on yourself. Remember God Promised He would be with us… He is. May not seem like it but He is. In crisis most run from God… run to him… Something brought her to action. Now it gets real… no have your cake and eat it too. Stop doing anything for her that you are not required to do.treat her like she is a roommate. let her feel single as much as you can. Be nice but when asked to do something for her say something like, "that isn’t going to work for me… sorry. Wish I could… etc. give her a taste of post divorce life before it is final. No aggressive actions just not doing the things you might do for a wife. She doesn’t want to be your wife… she thinks… so give her what she wants with a smile. Honor her wishes… read al turtle what to do when she leaves… and get the list… you have much to do… plan and get it done… stinks but you have to play by their rules now… God Bless… Pray, keep hope… always keep hope.
I will be checking this post regularly. If you send a private message then I will get an email telling me. sorry you are going through this. movement is good. No telling how it will end up at this point. If she wants a divorce you can’t do a thing about it in most states. God knows you efforts… God does not lie… He hates Divorce. Church tolerates it if specific conditions are met to protect the children… irreconcilable differences is not a reason… adultery is not a reason… let the Holy Spirit work now. He can make things happen. Pray often… Tell Jesus what you want, what is hurting you, share your thoughts with Him often… Listen too. This is going to be an adventure with few highs and many disappointments. Many will be from her lawyers, not her. If you can keep that thought in the front of your mind. Let your lawyer also handle any discussions now… they get good money to be the bad guy… Best not to discuss the relationship now or any divorce talk… no settlement, where to live… visitation etc. If she asks get a canned response down pat… my attorney advised me to let them handle that… or I’ll have to get back to you on that… after I discuss it with my attorney… all bad news or tough talk is from the attorney. she made it legal… remind her if she gets upset… with a smile…More damage is done by discussions between spouses to ones case than anywhere else. Scrub facebook and your computer for anything they might like to see… everything will be used to make you look worse that her cheating… it is her lawyer’s job. make it tough on them… no drinking, or anything in front of the kids… no contact with wife as far as physical… anything can be claimed as something it isn’t. be careful… remember your goal… always… goal may change… but it does not matter what your goal is… let nothing get in the way to that goal… Christ’'s peach be with you…
I will be checking this post regularly. If you send a private message then I will get an email telling me. sorry you are going through this. movement is good. No telling how it will end up at this point. If she wants a divorce you can’t do a thing about it in most states. God knows you efforts… God does not lie… He hates Divorce. Church tolerates it if specific conditions are met to protect the children… irreconcilable differences is not a reason… adultery is not a reason… let the Holy Spirit work now. He can make things happen. Pray often… Tell Jesus what you want, what is hurting you, share your thoughts with Him often… Listen too. This is going to be an adventure with few highs and many disappointments. Many will be from her lawyers, not her. If you can keep that thought in the front of your mind. Let your lawyer also handle any discussions now… they get good money to be the bad guy… Best not to discuss the relationship now or any divorce talk… no settlement, where to live… visitation etc. If she asks get a canned response down pat… my attorney advised me to let them handle that… or I’ll have to get back to you on that… after I discuss it with my attorney… all bad news or tough talk is from the attorney. she made it legal… remind her if she gets upset… with a smile…More damage is done by discussions between spouses to ones case than anywhere else. Scrub facebook and your computer for anything they might like to see… everything will be used to make you look worse that her cheating… it is her lawyer’s job. make it tough on them… no drinking, or anything in front of the kids… no contact with wife as far as physical… anything can be claimed as something it isn’t. be careful… remember your goal… always… goal may change… but it does not matter what your goal is… let nothing get in the way to that goal… Christ’'s peach be with you…
1
1990Domer
Guest
I am offering up my prayers for troubled marriages.
H
hydin
Guest
Sorry, just read all the past posts…
Concerning the outing… learning experience … what do you think your wife thought when she said she wanted to return home and you brought up your son’s practice? Put her in a bad spot … and your son too. I am sure you didn’t mean it that way… doesn’t matter… what did she think… that is the only thing that matters… then you stopped for wendys… Little thing but honor her wishes… this was slightly controlling. You don’t want to do this again after the papers have been served… she could make it look very bad… Sad to say.
Suggestion… talk to you son and girls if you feel they are old enough… at the same time and let them know you do not want the divorce but have no control over that now. You do control how they interact with you and their mom. I told my kids that I would not ever put them in the middle… never ask them to carry messages or ask questions of their mom for me… and I didn’t expect them to… if I ever slipped up or they felt uncomfortable to tell me… I wanted to know… Hard to do… many times I wanted to respond or she had them ask me things… I never let them have the answer to carry back… would respond quickly but by text or phone. She can do as she pleases… you have no control over her… just you. They are innocent victims of this situation. Make every effort to keep them out of it. No talking about wife, or her lawyer… Good stuff… Mom loves you… she misses you… let them talk too. ask them leading questions about your behavior… "you know I am trying to avoid involving you in this stuff… how am I doing… anything I do that you wish I didn’t do? anything that makes you uncomfortable? I I I… mom’s actions are of no concern. If you catch yourself say I am sorry asap. If they mention something… thank them… do not explain why you did it… appologize and restate what it was they pointed out and let them know you are working on it… Hug often… even your son… means more than words.
Glad you found the religious stuff. Father Larry is great… be a man… calls it like it is. Father John Riccardo is also excellent… Christ is the answer… parish pastor… mostly talks in his church… focus is on his flock, not public speaking trips. Having a male friend to talk to is a wonderful gift… we men suck at talking… take the time to let him know how much it means to you that he is doing what he is… then go one layer deeper… thanks for inviting us… my kids enjoy it… praying… then tell him how all that makes YOU feel… inside. Hardest thing for a religious / service oriented person to do is to let others get the same feelings they get from helping by letting other help them… It is a real gift to have found him at just the right time… God is pretty good, huh? You are starting to see Him at work… at just the right time… God will not change a person’s free will but He can influence situations in other ways. He has his eye on you and your kids… Trust Him… notice Him… THANK Him. As horrible as this experience is…life is short her compared to eternity… if the changes you are making are guiding you back to Him it may just be a loving gift in the end. I pray every night that if it is God’s will my marriage be restored… but I also realize it is out of my hands… I could have been a better husband… can’t fix that. Just the future. Hope our family is one day reunited. If it is it will be fantastic… if not, I am a much better man and Father…and closer to God too. I may have needed the shake up to get back on the path to be with Him… without being martyred gonna have to have plenty of forgiveness and mercy though. Eternity is much more important than here… just my thoughts…
Concerning the outing… learning experience … what do you think your wife thought when she said she wanted to return home and you brought up your son’s practice? Put her in a bad spot … and your son too. I am sure you didn’t mean it that way… doesn’t matter… what did she think… that is the only thing that matters… then you stopped for wendys… Little thing but honor her wishes… this was slightly controlling. You don’t want to do this again after the papers have been served… she could make it look very bad… Sad to say.
Suggestion… talk to you son and girls if you feel they are old enough… at the same time and let them know you do not want the divorce but have no control over that now. You do control how they interact with you and their mom. I told my kids that I would not ever put them in the middle… never ask them to carry messages or ask questions of their mom for me… and I didn’t expect them to… if I ever slipped up or they felt uncomfortable to tell me… I wanted to know… Hard to do… many times I wanted to respond or she had them ask me things… I never let them have the answer to carry back… would respond quickly but by text or phone. She can do as she pleases… you have no control over her… just you. They are innocent victims of this situation. Make every effort to keep them out of it. No talking about wife, or her lawyer… Good stuff… Mom loves you… she misses you… let them talk too. ask them leading questions about your behavior… "you know I am trying to avoid involving you in this stuff… how am I doing… anything I do that you wish I didn’t do? anything that makes you uncomfortable? I I I… mom’s actions are of no concern. If you catch yourself say I am sorry asap. If they mention something… thank them… do not explain why you did it… appologize and restate what it was they pointed out and let them know you are working on it… Hug often… even your son… means more than words.
Glad you found the religious stuff. Father Larry is great… be a man… calls it like it is. Father John Riccardo is also excellent… Christ is the answer… parish pastor… mostly talks in his church… focus is on his flock, not public speaking trips. Having a male friend to talk to is a wonderful gift… we men suck at talking… take the time to let him know how much it means to you that he is doing what he is… then go one layer deeper… thanks for inviting us… my kids enjoy it… praying… then tell him how all that makes YOU feel… inside. Hardest thing for a religious / service oriented person to do is to let others get the same feelings they get from helping by letting other help them… It is a real gift to have found him at just the right time… God is pretty good, huh? You are starting to see Him at work… at just the right time… God will not change a person’s free will but He can influence situations in other ways. He has his eye on you and your kids… Trust Him… notice Him… THANK Him. As horrible as this experience is…life is short her compared to eternity… if the changes you are making are guiding you back to Him it may just be a loving gift in the end. I pray every night that if it is God’s will my marriage be restored… but I also realize it is out of my hands… I could have been a better husband… can’t fix that. Just the future. Hope our family is one day reunited. If it is it will be fantastic… if not, I am a much better man and Father…and closer to God too. I may have needed the shake up to get back on the path to be with Him… without being martyred gonna have to have plenty of forgiveness and mercy though. Eternity is much more important than here… just my thoughts…
S
Still_Hoping
Guest
Mavdragon, I think you knew this was coming, although you were hoping that it would go away. Now, you have to face this. What do you think you should do?
M
mavdragon
Guest
I am interviewing lawyers and composing a response to the papers I was given. Being kind to my wife but cannot trust her. I asked her if she knew about having a mediator and she said her lawyer never mentioned that. She said she may be open to it.
I asked her if there was going to be a custody battle because it affected my choice of a lawyer. She said there was not going to be a custody battle and there was no reason for the state to get involved if we sit down and agree to fair terms.
I sent out pray requests to the mens groups I’m in and have gotten many helpful responses.
I think a formal separation maintenance agreement which is almost the same thing as divorce would be much more beneficial to both of us. I could see myself signing a agreement that did not include my endorsing divorce.
She seems to want more space than can be had by us both living in the same house. And not so much to be free to fornicate. She may be deceiving me but I’m going to hope for the best.
If I can get divorce off the table by hopefully giving her what she really wants, different living arrangements that would be a small miracle.
I continue to pray for her and offer up making my bed every morning for her salvation.
H
HollowGhost
Guest
Mavdragon my heart truly aches for you. I am praying for you. PLEASE stay in faith. When my father committed suicide years ago I was ANGRY at God for years. I now know that God helps you weather a storm so that you can weather a hurricane later. My hurricane was my wife’s affair. Without my faith, things would have not turned out so well. The day I found out, I sat in a neighboring parishes parking lot with a gun in the trunk thinking of the unthinkable. Thank God a priest answered the door when I knocked! We have all heard that God will not give you anything that you can not handle but I have learned that he will push you to the very ragged edge of what you think you can handle and then he will push you slightly past that. I vomited, 1-3 times daily for TEN WEEKS!!! Countless times I dropped to my knees and BEGGED God, Jesus, and our Blessed Mother to help me. I came through. Not only did I come through but I am a far better Christian, Catholic, Husband, Father and just a better person having come through. You will come through as well IF you stay in faith.
God allows suffering; why? Simple. To teach, correct, humble, and purify all with the end result of bringing you closer to Him. Like a loving parent, God disciplines in order to correct and bring you back to him. I have stated previously that one of the benefits I have discovered from my suffering is that my faith has gone from “infantile” to “PhD level.” As I look back at the last year, I can clearly see the absolute genius of God’s plan. I wish my wife and I hadn’t needed a 2x4 across the head but God did get our attention! Once you are spiritually purified you begin to receive Divine Insight. I now beleive that unless and until one is spiritually purified to this level (or given a Cross), one is incapable of receiving and or interpreting Divine Insight.
Lastly, I have come to depend a great deal on St. Joseph. Pray for his intercession. He is a model for doing the will of God without question. May the Holy Spirit descend upon you, your children, and your wife. May the Holy Spirit lead you and guide you.
Your Brother in Christ,
HollowGhost
God allows suffering; why? Simple. To teach, correct, humble, and purify all with the end result of bringing you closer to Him. Like a loving parent, God disciplines in order to correct and bring you back to him. I have stated previously that one of the benefits I have discovered from my suffering is that my faith has gone from “infantile” to “PhD level.” As I look back at the last year, I can clearly see the absolute genius of God’s plan. I wish my wife and I hadn’t needed a 2x4 across the head but God did get our attention! Once you are spiritually purified you begin to receive Divine Insight. I now beleive that unless and until one is spiritually purified to this level (or given a Cross), one is incapable of receiving and or interpreting Divine Insight.
Lastly, I have come to depend a great deal on St. Joseph. Pray for his intercession. He is a model for doing the will of God without question. May the Holy Spirit descend upon you, your children, and your wife. May the Holy Spirit lead you and guide you.
Your Brother in Christ,
HollowGhost
S
Still_Hoping
Guest
H
HollowGhost
Guest
I always wanted a true relationship with Our Blessed Mother but had no idea how to go about getting one. Beside’s the intercession of St. Joseph and St. Andre, make no mistake: The Blessed Mother was with me every step of the way. I am now very close to her as well; often I could almost feel the physical presence of both Mary and Joseph grabbing me by the hand and helping me get to the base of the Cross.
This is another one of my spiritual rewards for picking up my Cross and following Christ and that is my relationship with Her. Mavdragon, She WILL help you through; call on Her!!!
This is another one of my spiritual rewards for picking up my Cross and following Christ and that is my relationship with Her. Mavdragon, She WILL help you through; call on Her!!!
S
styrgwillidar
Guest
My wife (now ex both legally and sacramentally) found the mediator via a web search. I found a few going through the legal section of the phone book, and we decided to try the one she found, We sat down with the one she picked and he seemed very straightforward. He was a family law lawyer and preferred to do things via mediation- but the downside was that if our mediation talks broke down he would not represent either of us, we’d each have to find lawyers. Upside was he advised both of us at the same time of anything and informed both of us on any communications. Upside is also, it’s easy to transition from mediation to adversarial with opposing lawyers if things get to a sticking point, harder to go the other way. I don’t know if your wife’s lawyer could transition to do a mediated agreement given he already is her representative.
The mediator worked for us because neither of us was greedy, ex was very practical and reasonable in her approach and desires. I trusted her not to empty accounts, or run up debt or anything during the process- that just wasn’t her. (We actually still had a joint account 6 months after the divorce was final, just used my half towards buying her out of the house when she decided it was time.) We both tried to treat each other with respect, I kept in mind that I would rather stay together, if I was willing to than I couldn’t really say she was evil, right? It’s made allowing her to come to the house and visit with the kids, hangout and be at their events (going away to college party for daughter’s boyfriend, son’s birthday dinner, graduations etc etc) much easier.
Again, sorry for what you are going through. I’ll keep praying for you and yours and try and stay away from the legal advice.
S
Still_Hoping
Guest
You are taking the appropriate actions. Do not concern yourself with what others think. And you are right to continue to offer prayers for your wife. I offer that you go to adoration and sit with the Lord in deep contemplation, at least once a week. The Divine Mercy prayer is powerful, like the rosary. You can say this every Friday at 3pm. Pray for your enemies and be honest with God. Don’t let your feelings become all cooped up inside. Talk to Him and offer your suffering for her salvation and for the sake of your family. Do it with love and not as an obligation. Remember it is not us who saves but the Lord.
Do your children know about this?
M
mavdragon
Guest
Yes my children know.
S
Still_Hoping
Guest
How are they? You will have to be strong for all of you regardless how you feel. Find the strength in the Word of God. In times like these, I would read the bible and find a passage that can console me and offer peace and calm. Also, talk to your children and be honest, remember to offer a smile even though you don’t feel it. They need to see that through this there is hope because we belong to God.
God Bless.
- Status