Steve Bannon goes after Pope Francis

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

blindly letting him do his job is how we got in the sex abuse crisis

You make it sound like he made those priests do bad things 40 or more years ago. Isn’t that how we got into the crisis?

No I wasn’t clear. The lay people blindly letting him do his job is what caused it.

Obviously the priests and bishops that did the abuse are the most to blame. Then those who knew it was happening and did nothing to stop it. And then those naive lay people that blindly bury their heads in the sand. I was one of those when the 2002 abuse scandal broke. I believed that the bishops were all ignorant of what was going on and wrongly believed they would clean it up.

Fool me once…

 

[clmowry]

Not going to be a Bannon appologist, but I tried to capture what Bannon actually said that was aired in the report.

“The administrative apparatus of the Church must be changed.”

“My problem with the Pope today is about this crisis of pedophilia, that they are not treating this like a crisis.”

“He’s constantly coming back and putting all of the faults in the world on the populist nationalist movement.”

“This institution is in decline.”

I’m pretty sure that’s it.

Everything else in this report was someone else’s assertion about Bannon. (I’m not trying to discern if they are true or false assertions).

Good rule to live by: Never grant a reporter an interview.

Chuck

 

[TMC]

Not going to be a Bannon appologist, but I tried to capture what Bannon actually said that was aired in the report.

Fair enough, but even these comments are odd and seem like an attack on the Pope. For example, Pope Francis has made reform the administrative apparatus of the Church a priority. The abuse crisis indisputably lies at the feet of every modern Pope (and probably many of the less modern Popes), so why single out Pope Francis, and why now? Yes, the Pope points out the many problems inherent in nationalism, as has most every Pope (and for good reason).

It really seems to me that Bannon has decided to take on the Vatican and the current Pope for some reason. Given his personal and political history, I think it is fair to question his motives in doing so.

 

[niceatheist]

Forty or more years ago? There was evidence of wide-spread abuse in the 1940s. Claiming somehow Francis, or heck, even JPII or Benedict XVI have to shoulder some particular blame is absurd. This was a hierarchical problem and it wasn’t until the 1980s that the full scope of the abuse started to come into focus. As far as I’m concerned, blaming gay seminarians, the Sexual Revolution or any particular Pontiff is just an attempt at misdirection. In particular, the sudden need for Traditionalists and other conservative reactionaries in the Church to blame Francis is more about undermining Francis for reasons that have little or nothing at all to do with historical child abuse allegations and findings. To one degree or another people like Bannon want a return to a hardline Papacy that justifies their political views.

 

[CatholicSooner]

Forty or more years ago? There was evidence of wide-spread abuse in the 1940s. Claiming somehow Francis, or heck, even JPII or Benedict XVI have to shoulder some particular blame is absurd. This was a hierarchical problem and it wasn’t until the 1980s that the full scope of the abuse started to come into focus. As far as I’m concerned, blaming gay seminarians, the Sexual Revolution or any particular Pontiff is just an attempt at misdirection. In particular, the sudden need for Traditionalists and other conservative reactionaries in the Church to blame Francis is more about undermining Francis for reasons that have little or nothing at all to do with historical child abuse allegations and findings. To one degree or another people like Bannon want a return to a hardline Papacy that justifies their political views.

Plenty of evidence that the sex abuse climaxed in the 70s and 80s. yes there has always been abuse and always will be abuse in the church. But you don’t just accept it…at least I don’t. Its pretty clear that there was an infiltration of homosexuals into the priesthood AND bishops turning a blind eye.

And Francis is being targeted b/c of his personal connections to the scandal while he was in Argentina and also how he has handled the McCarick situation and the Chile situation.

That doesn’t mean he is the only one to blame. If Benedict and JPII also covered cases up and acted inappropriately, they need to be criticized as well.

 

[TMC]

Forty or more years ago? There was evidence of wide-spread abuse in the 1940s

There has been evidence of abuse for hundreds of years. This is a long, long term institutional problem.

 

[TMC]

yes there has always been abuse and always will be abuse in the church.

I do not accept this statement - at all. The abuse crisis in long standing, centuries at least, and maybe it goes back even further. But there are plenty of institutions that do not have systemic, widespread abuse. The Church should not, either.

If Benedict and JPII also covered cases up and acted inappropriately, they need to be criticized as well.

If?

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

yes there has always been abuse and always will be abuse in the church.

I do not accept this statement - at all. The abuse crisis in long standing, centuries at least, and maybe it goes back even further. But there are plenty of institutions that do not have systemic, widespread abuse. The Church should not, either.

If Benedict and JPII also covered cases up and acted inappropriately, they need to be criticized as well.

If?

I never said that there will always be widespread and systemic abuse. I simply said there will always be abuse in the church. It is the truth. Yes, we should try and stop it. But the Church is made of humans. Spiritual attacks are a real thing. And look at the history of Israel…do we pretend that as Christians, we are better than they were? They were constantly failing and turning away from God. We Christians do the same because we are humans.

Yes, if. I haven’t seen anything pointing to specific evidence that they covered anything up

 

[TMC]

I never said that there will always be widespread and systemic abuse. I simply said there will always be abuse in the church. It is the truth. Yes, we should try and stop it. But the Church is made of humans. Spiritual attacks are a real thing. And look at the history of Israel…do we pretend that as Christians, we are better than they were? They were constantly failing and turning away from God. We Christians do the same because we are humans.

Yes, if. I haven’t seen anything pointing to specific evidence that they covered anything up

I wish this were about the individual failings of a few clerics - it is not. It is about systematic abuse, and a culture of cover up and denial. We all fail and sin We do not all agree to participate in such a culture.

One thing I think (hope?) we agree on, the laity needs to make it perfectly clear that we will no longer abide a culture of cover up and denial in the Church. My concern is that some people (and it appears Mr. Bannon is among them) are trying to harness the laity’s legitimate outrage over these issues to their own political ends.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Beryllos:

You make it sound like he made those priests do bad things 40 or more years ago.

No, but the attitude of the Bishop or Pope knows best allowed the cover ups to last as long as they did.

That came about on the order of a Cardinal Ottaviani who on recognising in 1962 how serious the problem was among clergy, issued and instruction called ‘Crimen sollicitationis’. This prevented clergy from reporting fellow clergy guilty of these crimes, outside the hierarchy of the Church on pain of excommunication. That came out at the Australian Royal Commission. That instruction was quashed by Pope St JPII in the 80’s. So the blame for the coverup can be laid squarely on this one powerful Cardinal in 1962.

 

[Beryllos]

I stand corrected.

 

[YourNameHere]

And I believe what you are saying is correct.