Story: California priest censored, receives venomous responses, death threats, for saying Chtistians should not celebrate pride month

[Annie]

any more than going to a bar supports being an alcoholic

First, it is not only alcoholics who go into bars, nor are bars celebrating being alcoholic.

Imagine if there were a parade of people celebrating alcoholism, asking people to accept them as they are, saying God made them thos way, showing how alcoholism is genetic… wouldn’t you wonder if someone who was trying to keep away from alcohol, knowing the effects, were to join in some event saying how great alcoholism is?

why must some people be obsessed with bed room issues alone? As if that were the only or most important issue…

In part, because it is a great temptation for so many people, and in part because it is so easy a sin to slip into.

But in this day and age, because it is a sin that is denied, and denied on the basis of love itself.

The Church does not speak out very much on the sins of adultery or rape, because we all pretty much agree those are terrible acts to commit. Can you imagine someone preaching vehemently against armed robbery? No, because we all pretty much agree that this is wrong.

But it is different with sex. We celebrate sex, we publish how-to manuals, we have apps which allow people to meet for this purpose. People who speak out against pre-marital sex are ridiculed and told to enter the 21st century.

And that’s why we hear more about people “being obsessed with bedroom issues,” aka fraternal correction, spreading the Gospel, trying to save souls…

 

[godisgood77]

First, it is not only alcoholics who go into bars, nor are bars celebrating being alcoholic.

Thank you… you’ve made my point. Not all people who participate in Pride Events are gay, nor are they celebrating homosexual acts.

Participating in Pride Event does not equal support of homosexual acts .

 

[Annie]

Participating in Pride Event does not equal support of homosexual acts .

However, Pride does celebrate being homsexual, if not the acts themselves, or supporting the state of being homosexual.

Bars do not celebrate people being alcoholics. Others do not go in support of people being alcoholic. Do you see the difference between a bar and alcoholics and Pride Month and homosexuals?

Thank you… you’ve made my point.

Can you refrain in the future from twisting my words?

Not all people who participate in Pride Events are gay, nor are they celebrating homosexual acts.

Yes, we know that some of those who attend are “supporters” of LGBT people.

I understand that you are saying they are not celebrating the acts themselves, but they are celebrating those who have those temptations. We do not celebrate the state of being an alcoholic; why do we celebrate the state of being a homosexual?

 

[Funvod]

And they were meant to send the message that LGBT people weren’t going to put up with that anymore.

I’ve been to a few pride celebration thing and this was the sentiment I noticed. People weren’t there to say “haha, look at our crazy sex filled lifestyle, take that religious bigots!”, they were there to be recognized as normal people who happened to attracted to the same gender. Pride as a movement is more about being recognized as a person rather than flaunting your sex life.
Granted I haven’t been to many pride events. Big celebrations aren’t really my thing and I’m a very busy person, but that was the sentiment I noticed at the events I did go to.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Pride - “a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one’s own achievements

Or the opposite of shame, which is the meaning for Pride events. LGBT Catholics don’t have to be ashamed and many Christians act like it’s something to be ashamed of.

I listen to what people say when they think no one who’s LGBT listening, I’ve noted the harsh words and I know there is one or more young people who are LGBT and how it must sound to them even thought they are or want to be chaste. They must feel so hopeless.

 

[StudentMI]

Yes, God created all of us. Now if you could explain how it follows that attending an event that celebrates behavior prohibited by the Church is justified, that would be great.

They can’t. I guess pride parades with guys in jockstraps gyrating to EDM doesn’t endorse same sex actions. Who knew?

 

[Thorolfr]

WingedHussar:

Yes, God created all of us. Now if you could explain how it follows that attending an event that celebrates behavior prohibited by the Church is justified, that would be great.

They can’t. I guess pride parades with guys in jockstraps gyrating to EDM doesn’t endorse same sex actions. Who knew?

Pride parades have a lot of different kinds of contingents in them. The last parade I went to had contingents from local Lutheran and Methodist churches. Some of the participants in those contingents weren’t even gay or lesbian. There was also a contingent of LGBT Catholics. And there was a contingent from a support group for caregivers of people with Alzheimer’s at the local LGBT center, and a contingent from the local gay men’s chorus. One pride parade I went to had a float from American Express. None of these had gyrating guys in jockstraps in them. One contingent or even a handful of them don’t define what the parade is about.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

why is it wrong to listen to LGBT Catholics, who are upholding Church teaching, when they say it’s important to them to participate in Pride Month?

If they have good intentions they can go if they want.

 

[Thorolfr]

I understand that you are saying they are not celebrating the acts themselves, but they are celebrating those who have those temptations. We do not celebrate the state of being an alcoholic; why do we celebrate the state of being a homosexual?

Most alcoholics don’t discover that they’re an alcoholic when they 11 or 12 and they probably don’t feel that being an alcoholic is a core part of who they are. A person’s sexuality, on the other hand, is, I believe, an important part of who someone is and starts to develop at an early age. I would suppose that even most straight people would consider the romantic feelings they experience towards their spouse or significant other to be a very important part of themselves. And gay men and lesbians experience the same kinds of feelings. They “fall in love” just like straight people, but those feelings are directed at someone of the same sex. There’s obviously disagreement over whether it’s good to have those kinds of feelings for someone of the same sex, but I don’t think it’s really possible to compare the feeling of “falling in love” with the feeling of being an alcoholic.

 

[Annie]

They are indeed different in some ways but the same in others.

Part of the difference is that now homosexual activity is no longer seen as wrong while excessive drinking is still seen as wrong.

And to be honest, I don’t really blame LGBT people for all this and the “destruction of marriage.” I think that people committing the sin of using artificial forms of birth control and the consequent-ish acceptance of the separation of sex and procreation have been much more destructive than the homosexual phenomenon.

My main concern is to clarify (in my mind) the Catholic point of view and to make sure it is still out there for people to encounter.

 

[fide]

fide:

Pride - “a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one’s own achievements

Or the opposite of shame, which is the meaning for Pride events. LGBT Catholics don’t have to be ashamed and many Christians act like it’s something to be ashamed of.

I listen to what people say when they think no one who’s LGBT listening, I’ve noted the harsh words and I know there is one or more young people who are LGBT and how it must sound to them even thought they are or want to be chaste. They must feel so hopeless.

In general it is a bad idea to react to an unjust condemnation (“You should be ashamed!”) by making an unrighteous claim at the other end of the spectrum (“No, I should be proud!”). Jumping to an opposite extreme usually goes too far in the opposite direction.

I personally don’t suffer from hyper-vulnerability to alcoholic beverages, but some people I deeply love, do. So I’ve gone to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings several times with them, and every time I have been deeply, deeply touched and impressed and internally moved by what I learned from them. The first and most powerful lesson for me, was to witness their profound, simple, authentic, sincere humility. Each introduction before a story, response, talk, testimony was always, “Hello, my name is Bill (or whatever), and I’m an alcoholic.” Not with shame - certainly not with pride! - simply with honesty and humble self-knowledge, in the truth of it all.

Every time I visited, I left with the same sense of admiration and joy, for what God gave to the founders of AA - a system that works “for any who will work it”. Personal honesty, and a crucial, necessary appeal to a “Higher Power” - part of the 12-step plan to living without drink one day at a time.

Sin IS shameful. Temptation is not shameful, but temptation must be recognized for what it is: a doorway to sin, which, if transgressed, IS shameful. The threshold of that doorway must NOT be crossed. That “one” drink must NOT be drunk. The AA knows better than to begin the meetings with “Hello, my name is Bill, and I am a PARTY-MAN!. Let’s Party!” That would not be a step to righteousness, to LIFE in freedom and happiness.

The opposite of shame is not pride in "gay"ness. It is true humility, fidelity in Christ.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Being a lesbian, being gay, being bisexual, being trans, none of these are sins. To assume every LGBT person is sinning is in itself a sinful judgement. It is no different than if I assume you are fornicating.

 

[sealabeag]

That’s not true you have received countless replies from multiple people. If you’re choosing to hear what you want to hear that’s on you.

 

[TheLittleLady]

My Diocese runs support groups for Recovering Catholics.

I pray the Jesus prayer, Jesus, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinful man.

I would describe myself as a Widowed Catholic, a Disabled Catholic, have friends who embrace other descriptors like “Charismatic Catholic” or “Traditional Catholic”.
Using descriptors is not a sin.

 

[StudentMI]

https://couragerc.org/faqs/

They address why they don’t use gay or lesbian.

 

[signit]

https://couragerc.org/faqs/

They address why they don’t use gay or lesbian.

Okay.

But, also, from the site:

link

Courage is a group of Catholics who experience same-sex attractions and who are committed to helping one another to live chaste lives marked by prayer, fellowship and mutual support. Our members are guided by caring priest chaplains who offer reconciliation and direction for the spiritual life. Together they pursue the Five Goals of Courage, which were developed by the first Courage group in New York City in 1980 and still guide all of our meetings and work:

(emphasis added)

So, they don’t use the words “gay” or “lesbian,” but they still use a descriptor, “. . . with same-sex attractions.”

In other words, Catholics with same-sex attraction are unique in some way, possibly in need of a certain kind of support.

 

[StudentMI]

In other words, Catholics with same-sex attraction are unique in some way, possibly in need of a certain kind of support.

Correct. And to add to what you posted, I don’t describe myself as a same sex attracted Catholic. I am a Catholic. I happen to have same sex attraction or SSA.

 

[Genesis315]

We all have disordered attractions and passions as a result of original sin–the Church calls this concupiscence. Certainly, no one should be condemned, hated, or unjustly discriminated against for simply experiencing one form of concupiscence or another, but neither is concupiscence something to be celebrated or proud of as such. In fact, instead we celebrate those who, with God’s help, overcome it (e.g. Saints’ feast days, and especially All Saints Day). That celebration comes at the end–we don’t want to be presumptuous before the race is finished: “Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.” (1 Cor. 10:12). In the meantime, we help each other fight the good fight.

This is all summed up by the Roman Catechism (Catechism of Trent):

The second reason why bodily infirmity, disease, sense of pain and motions of concupiscence remain after Baptism is that in them we may have the seed and material of virtue from which we shall hereafter receive a more abundant harvest of glory and more ample rewards. When, with patient resignation, we bear all the trials of life, and, aided by the divine assistance, subject to the dominion of reason the rebellious desires of the heart, we ought to cherish an assured hope that if, with the Apostle we shall have fought a good fight, finished the course, and kept the faith, the Lord, the just judge, will render to us on that day a crown of justice which is laid up for us.

 

[Funvod]

In fact, instead we celebrate those who, with God’s help, overcome it

But someone’s sexual orientation isn’t something that can be overcome. It’s a part of you. There’s nothing wrong with being a gay person. Pride events stem from a desire for recognition as a normal person.

I have some problems with the LGBTQ community, but the fact of the matter is it’s been a group that’s historically had a pretty bad time, and in many areas of the world it’s still having a pretty bad time.

Like I said, I’m not much for big parties and celebrations, but LGBT Catholics, in my personal experience, have this issue of experiencing a degree of isolation from the LGBT community and whatever Church community they are a part of. I can’t blame someone for wanting acceptance, and Pride is all about acceptance.

In the meantime, we help each other fight the good fight.

I’ve come out to precisely 2 Catholic people because everyone else has explicitly told me that they wouldn’t want to know a gay person or has harbored some serious stereotypes about gay people that I don’t have the time and energy to deal with.

I love the Church but it’s not been very good with LGBT relations, and I don’t think assuming that other Catholics will be willing to help a gay Catholic “fight the good fight” when that historically hasn’t been the case is a good line of reasoning. Until the Church seriously steps up to the issue of ministering to LGBT people I can’t say I blame a gay Catholic or a gay non-Cathokic for going to a Pride event.

 

[StudentMI]

Until the Church seriously steps up to the issue of ministering to LGBT people I can’t say I blame a gay Catholic or a gay non-Cathokic for going to a Pride event.

Ever heard of Courage?