Story of Noah: Who believes it to be real?

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Abbadon

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This is just a poll. No debate here. I’m simply interested in the statistics of who believes it is real and who thinks it was just a story.

By Christian i mean all people that follow the teachings of Jesus. I’m obviously not including Islam in this even though they acknowledge Jesus.

But i would be interested for Jewish and Islamic people to post their religion and what they voted for. Although being put into the non Christian category.
 
You may note that the eden story has 6 options. I just felt that Noahs ark was most definately at the least based on a story. We have the parallels of Gilgamesh and other mythical stories throughout society occurring at the same time throughout that rough region. Just how accurate a story is what i’m wondering.

That was just a statement as to why 6 and 4 options. Please no debate just poll.
 
My answer is yes and no;) …here is why

At one time I would have said I was 100% certain it was factual. I was also such a fundamentalist Christian.Converting to Catholicism has helped me open my mind. I think about that story and the important part of the story is not that 2 of every animal got on a Ark.Certain morals of the story are more important to me now. The main one being that Noah did what God asked Him to do even though it sounded unreal.

Does that make sense?

God Bless 🙂
 
At one time I would have said I was 100% certain it was factual. I was also such a fundamentalist Christian.Converting to Catholicism has helped me open my mind. I think about that story and the important part of the story is not that 2 of every animal got on a Ark.Certain morals of the story are more important to me now. The main one being that Noah did what God asked Him to do even though it sounded unreal.
This seems to be a very thoughtful answer :), even though you seem to be sitting on the fence a bit. I think that the story of Noah is more factual than he just being a righteous man who followed God. You can read about morals like that anywhere in the bible eg. David, Moses and Abraham.

If one starts to think that the stories are just that - stories with a moral to them, why bother reading the bible. Why not just read the Catchism or follow the the paths that you think are right and in conformity to the Church’s teaching.

I don’t know the thoughts of God, so to speak; He knows more than all of us put together. But, I can’t understand why the Holy Spirit would inspire the writer to compose purely analogous stories with characters who may have, or who may not have existed. Wouldnt it be easier for the writers (eg. Moses) to just write down the Commandments and laws?
 
I am not saying that the story does not have some facts to it. I don’t doubt that a bit.But as far as me to believe that 2 of every animal got on a boat? I would have to say no.

If you feel you have more Faith because you believe the story is factual then I am happy for you.

Like I said before.I once believed the story of Noah to be 100% factual.I had Faith in God back then. I now don’t believe it to be 100% and for some reason I now have more Faith. Go figure 🙂
 
Today the average depth of the ocean is around 12200 feet (3720m) or around 2.3 miles deep
Mt. Everest is 29,029 feet (8,848), or around 5.5 miles high.
The bible say’s that all the mountains were covered.
So to cover the entire surface of the earth with water that was 5.5 miles deeper than today would take an lot of rain and waters from the abyss.

But with God, everything is possible.
 
There is absolutely no evidence of a global flood. I understand it’s possible for such a magnificent event to happen – anything is possible under God’s wing. But don’t you think there would be titanic traces for a titanic flood? Yet nothing is found.

The story makes more sense if it’s seen from a didactic point of view.
 
There is absolutely no evidence of a global flood. I understand it’s possible for such a magnificent event to happen – anything is possible under God’s wing. But don’t you think there would be titanic traces for a titanic flood? Yet nothing is found.

The story makes more sense if it’s seen from a didactic point of view.
What evidence is missing?
 
Does the Church believe that only Noah and his family were present on the Earth at a particular point in history and that the human race was re-populated from them?

Firstly, I should ask what is the likelyhood that Noah as portrayed in the bible even existed?!!!
 
There are a lot of things that make the literal interpretation of the Jonah story difficult, but none that make it impossible, so I tend to favor good old fashion belief in it and not get wrapped in the logic-chopping, and take a dim view of skeptics that make dogmatic pronouncements. No wonder they don’t like the pope–they’re in competition for the job!
 
Perhaps there should be another category:

That it is written in symbolic language. Then, the symbols need to be interpreted to the literal sense.

REASON for the possible addition:
Our Faith clearly teaches that the early chapters of Genesis uses symbolic language. All figures and symbols have a literal meaning, but are not literal.

If this is written in symbolic language, then it is not literal. But the literal will be seen once the symbols are interpreted.

Please don’t laught: Do I make sense? I really mean the question. I find this to be extremely proplexing.

Thanks for listening.
 
I believe it because its a common myth that many different cultures with no relation to each other (aztec, semitic, chinese, etc) share. I don’t care if the geological evidence isn’t there, the cultural evidence is there.

My guess is that some time in ages past, something did happen. “All the world” may just mean the area of the event.

I give the Bible the benefit of the doubt.
 
Does the Church believe that only Noah and his family were present on the Earth at a particular point in history and that the human race was re-populated from them?

First, I should ask what is the likelyhood that Noah as portrayed in the bible even existed?!!!
Before I address your questions I would like to say I find that to poll the account of Noah and the flood as either “real” or “just a story, an analogy”, is both vague and loaded. “Real” is not defined, so one must assume that what is meant is “historical”. Yet, the term “real” biases the poll. Some people would not want to say that a Biblical account is not real when “real” is contrasted with the alternative “just a story”.

The word “just” in “just a story” has a pejorative nuance. This biases the poll, further. Also, the word “story” can be ambiguous. People will interpret the word “story” in different ways. For instance, there are true stories and there are false stories. The word “story” was left undefined. The qualification of “analogy” only contributed to the ambiguity. What possibly could the Noah account be an analogy of?

Sorry to have to say this, but there are no good choices in this poll as it is worded. I am not trying to be unduly critical. I’m just trying to help the person who constructed the poll, even though he did not ask for my two cents worth.

Now, on to your questions. To know what the Church is saying about Noah story can be seen by familiarizing oneself with modern Catholic Biblical scholarship that the Church considers acceptable. One approach interprets the Noah story as a theological polemic. There is overwhelming literary and historical evidence to support this approach.

It is impossible to attach any historical value to the Noah story or to the Mesopotamian flood story. Noah appears to be a composite personality of two or three Old Testament figures.

Accordingly, the Noah story is a theological polemic against such flood stories as were common in the ancient Near East, especially the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Noah polemic is then worked into the historical framework of the O.T.

The Noah story gives the Israelites a flood story that has true or corrected theology, as opposed to the pagan theology of the Gilgamesh Epic.

For instance, in Gilgamesh, floods are the result of the irrational anger of the gods who do not distinquish between good and evil. In Noah, the anger of the one, true God, Yahweh, is a matter of justice. And his justice reaches to the ends of the earth. Hence the vast extent of the flood.

“The deluge story is an extremely clear example of how the Hebrews could take popular traditions of other people, often almost entirely devoid of historical value, and retell them in such a way as to present important theological conceptions through them: here, divine justice and providence, the security and stability of nature resting on the assured good will of God to mankind in spite of evil the inclinations of man’s heart.” (Fr. J.L. McKenzie)

Two books that give good background on the Noah story are *Dictionary of the Bible *(see entry “Deluge”), and The Two-Edged Sword. Both are by Fr. John L. McKenzie, S.J. Also, reading ancient Near Eastern literature helps with understanding literary genres and the cultural milieu of the times. J.B. Pritchard put out a nice 2 volume collection of texts with pictures: *The Ancient Near East: An Anthology of Texts and Pictures (*0691002002). Of course, read The Epic of Gilgamesh. And finally, *The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels *by Heidel (0226323986).

The bottom line for the die-hard literalist is that a Biblical literary genre does not have to be historical in order for it to convey God’s message about salvation. Catholics are free to take the Noah story literally or to understand it according to modern Biblical scholarship as I have briefly described. Each to his own. I prefer the modern interpretation. Yet, we should not ignore the more literal interpretations of some of the early Church Fathers, as they are of great spiritual value.

itinerant1 :tiphat:
 
Maybe both. Who knows? The means story means the same thing either way.
 
Maybe there was a real man Noah and a real ark and a local flood but for theisitic man living at the time in their view appeared to be worldwide flood.

And maybe it was shortly after Adam and Eve who were the first homo sapiens.

And maybe the years between Adam and Abraham are not literal.

Maybe there really were animals on Noah’s ark–that would preclude animals such as the platypus in Australia and it woudn’t contradict the notion of the flood being worldwide if worldwide was confined to theistic man and maybe all preceding forms of man and even the Neanderthals were not theistic man and did not have souls.

My point is it doesn’t have to be an either/or situation.

i believe one day when we’re in heaven we will see how the stories of Genesis and the evolution of the world did not contradict one another.

That’s why I believe in the direct creation of Adam and Eve as the first homo sapiens–that Noah and the Ark really happened–that the earth is indeed billions of years old and that none of this is a contradiction and that some type of flood did indeed actually happen.

I believe when one gets to abraham that the years in the bible do for the most part Literaly coincide with our current calendar and length of years.
 
I said yes I believe but realistically, it is unlikely to have happened as it was described in the Bible. I think bits of it are true but there is far more to the story than givern in the Bible.
 
Maybe both. Who knows? The means story means the same thing either way.
If you mean the Noah story means the same whether one understands it in a literal, historical sense, or as the Hebrew reworking of a Mesopotamian flood story, you are correct in this case. The meaning does not change in that God’s message to man is correctly understood either way it is read.

The advantages of understanding the Noah account as a theological polemic is that one does not make inaccurate assumptions about history and science by presuming there must be an Ark out there somewhere to be found; and one does not read too much into any of the geological indications for the many floods that typically occurred in the ancient Near East. In fact the pagan deluge account refers to the great flood as something that happened a long, long time ago, which would be long before what would be Noah’s time upon a literal reading. When Christians insist they have found geologic proof for a fairly recent (according to O.T. method of listing years) world wide flood it throws discredit on Christianity in the eyes of outsiders. There is the same problem when one insists on a literal reading of the six days of creation. In the late Middle Ages St. Thomas Aquinas warned that a direct creation in six days is favored by a superficial reading of Scripture. Long before St. Thomas’ day, St. Gregory of Nyssa advanced basic evolutionary ideas. So did St. Augustine with his theory of rationes seminales. Creation continued and unfolds over time. It did not happen all at once in a literal six days and it did not happend all at once in six days with special creations of each species.

In other books in the Bible, and in other stories in Genesis one may stick to a literal reading, but a strict literal reading can leave one closed off to deeper meanings of the text. This is so because a word in Scripture may have multiple senses. The literal sense of a word may be the basis for other meanings of the word.

But it is certainly theologically safe and theologically acceptable to take the Noah story as literal, while realizing that this assumed literal event has other significations, such as regards Baptism.

itinerant1 :tiphat:
 
And of course a poll which i indicated NOT to turn into a debate turns into a debate… if people would like to see an extremly long debate on it check out

richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10675

It’s a formal debate btween two members nad it is huge…
Sorry, Abbaddon, about the debate. But can one post a poll on a hot topic and not expect a debate, especially when so many people are just scouring the forum for a debate to jump into?

Even if you posted a poll asking whether one pefers the colors blue or green it would turn into a knock-down dragged out debate over literal and allegorical meanings of blue and green. Literalist would quote some church document they think requires all Catholics under pain of excommunication and threat of eternal damnation to accept only a literal meaning of colors. The non-literalist would then wax poetical and eloquently about life not being a flat blue and green, but shades and tones of blueness and greeness. And then the literalists would…I think you get my point. Thanks for the link. I’m outta here…

itinerant1 :tiphat:
 
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