Story: "Prominent clergy are duking it out on social media over Joe Biden calling himself Catholic."

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After Trump? I’m only voting for candidates who exhibit both. If a political candidate isn’t of good character, the chances he will vote for moral policies is less likely.
Very true.

Also true - if a candidate tells you he supports immoral policies, the chances he will vote for moral ones is less likely.

I could pick apart the character of any of these people, quite easily. Hence why many of us start with the policies that we believe will be best for a nation, then begin to argue over character amongst whomever is left standing.

I find the likelihood that a person of poor character but great policies and ideas will succed to be much higher than a person of great character who has horrendous ideas that he promotes.
 
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“ A Catholic not in good standing” is a real interesting way to describe someone who is hostile to the faith, and promotes violence to infants, while claiming to have the faith we should all share.
 
“ A Catholic not in good standing” is a real interesting way to describe someone who is hostile to the faith, and promotes violence to infants, while claiming to have the faith we should all share.
Yeah, kind of like saying John C. Calhoun was an “abolitionist not in good standing.”
 
I find the likelihood that a person of poor character but great policies and ideas
The issue I have with this is that a person of poor character is more likely to lie to you simply to gain power. If they have no intention of following though on their promises in the first place, where does that leave you?
 
if a candidate tells you he supports immoral policies, the chances he will vote for moral ones is less likely.
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This.

I honestly don’t understand how some people seem to look past what policies promoted reveals about a person’s character.

Like, surely the policies someone promotes, reveal more about their character than whether they have palace-approved table manners.

Even something like Candidate A being once-married-with-kids doesn’t particularly tell me much about their character. Sure, it’s possible they arrived at this externally wholesome circumstance through deeply held religious convictions… but it’s also possible they just fell into whatever the cultural norms of their time were, and never faced particular temptation to do something else. It’s possible their character is the same or worse than the thrice-divorced politician known for calling upon prostitutes, but through sheltered circumstances they just haven’t happened to act out this inward character in a publicly obvious way.

So the shallow surface stuff just doesn’t significantly differentiate between politicians, for me. The veneer, the table manners, the cozy picturesque private life appearance… That stuff only factors in (if at all) after more significant indicators of character-as-relevant-to-performing-job-X-for-optimal-outcomes.

And no matter how shiny someone’s ‘character’ seems, if they promise an outcome that’s the opposite of what I want, I’ll vote against hiring them.
 
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Oh yeah, the list goes on and on. I’m a Mormon not in good standing, I’m a democrat not in good standing, I’m a Female not in good standing lol!
 
It’s not though. A heretic cannot be a member of the church. It’s impossible according to church teaching. So what is a heretic? A heretic is anyone who doesn’t accept and believe all church doctrine. If a person denies even one church doctrine, that person is a heretic. Joe Biden clearly denies multiple pieces of doctrine therefore, he’s status as a heretic is affirmed.
The Catholic Encyclopedia (1910) gives a more accurate definition of heresy:
Both matter and form of heresy admit of degrees which find expression in the following technical formula of theology and canon law. Pertinacious adhesion to a doctrine contradictory to a point of faith clearly defined by the Church is heresy pure and simple, heresy in the first degree.
“Pertinacious adhesion” generally is understood as correction by a superior, with time to repent. The usual judicial processes described in canon law apply. Unless you have a judgement from a superior, like his pastor or bishop, his status as a heretic is NOT affirmed. It is just an opinion from somebody who does not know much about Catholicism.

The “Catholic in good standing” designation is similar. If such a designation existed, it would come from the person’s pastor or bishop. Not from some random priest or bishop on Twitter, but through the established processes of the Church. We have a hierarchy for a reason.
 
It’s not though. A heretic cannot be a member of the church. It’s impossible according to church teaching. So what is a heretic? A heretic is anyone who doesn’t accept and believe all church doctrine. If a person denies even one church doctrine, that person is a heretic. Joe Biden clearly denies multiple pieces of doctrine therefore, he’s status as a heretic is affirmed.
I don’t think you are correct on either point. I think heretics can still be members of the Church, and I am certain that disagreeing with a single Church teaching does not make one a heretic. Seems to me that very few Catholics agree with the Church on every teaching–you see that on this forum every day. We all know that there are certain teachings that most American Catholics reject - are all those Catholics heretics, and not “real” Catholics?
 
The “secret” in “secret police” refers to membership not existence. Police officers exercising police powers (such as arrest or interrogation) should be required to identify themselves as individuals (at a minimum by badge or ID number), not just that they are officers.
why? so the mob can attack them like they do to other doxxed people?
Joe is about as much of a Catholic as the other parishioners in the pews
so the average Joe parishioner supports the entire LGBT agenda, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, transgenderism, identity politics, the destruction of the family, contraception, liberal judges who will uphold these policies, etc

I don’t think so but Joe Biden does support these anti-catholic policies
The issue I have with this is that a person of poor character is more likely to lie to you simply to gain power.
both Joe and Don have been known to lie, where does that leave us?
 
A whole lot of people are open to voting for a third party: Majority in U.S. Still Say a Third Party Is Needed

But the continued rhetoric of “Oh they’re so far from winning, they’d never win so don’t waste your vote” convinces people without a network of third-party voters that they’re stupid for trying to vote against the two party system. If all you hear is one thing, you’ll believe it, no matter how wrong it is.
 
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Freddy:
I keep thinking about glass houses, motes and beams.
As an outsider, Biden appears to be an honourable man (with faults). Trump? The polar opposite.
Comical. You basically said:

“The Bishop has enough of his own sins to worry about than to comment on someone else’s”

followed quickly by:

“Oh by the way - Trump’s a huge sinner.”

This is why I roll my eyes at people who quote this particular passage, most of the time. The passage is quite valid, but for one to throw that in people’s face basically mandates the thrower is living a virtually sinless life for them to be taken seriously.
The point I am making is that Biden is being condemned when Trump (who has a litany of misdemeanors to his name) is not. It was obviously a politically generated statement because he derides the fact that the Dems, for the first time in a long time, do not have a Catholic on the ticket. When it’s a fact that you haven’t had one for many years with the exception of Kaine - who was ardently pro choice.

If the guy wants to start making political statements then he should get up to speed with the facts first.
 
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They aren’t facts. They don’t have to be true. If you and people with your opinion would stop saying it and encourage people to vote for their true preferred party for a change, things would be different. I can’t count how many people want to have other options but can’t because “a third party vote is a waste” is such a common opinion.
Yes…if. If things were different, if enough people voted differently, if millions of others thought like you. In the land of IF things are always possible, but in the world we inhabit, not so much. It is a fact that either the Democrat or the Republican will win this election, however much we might wish for a different outcome. Maybe in the future things will be different, but not this time.
Once again, the self-fulfilling prophecy. Saying this dissuades third party voters, which causes the two party system to be upheld.
Successful third parties do not spring up from nothing. There has been no groundwork laid for one here. Wishful thinking is no substitute for hard work.
I see a lot of differences between them. I just don’t like either one as much as my preferred candidate. I don’t have to be blind to their differences to think they both suck.
I don’t like vanilla or chocolate as well as my favorite flavor, but I prefer one to the other and will choose between them when no other option is available. It is useless to order pistachio if there is no chance of getting it.
…maybe allow the “bad guy” to win once in order to make things better in the long term.
I was never a fan of the “destroy the village in order to save it” approach.
 
Nobody is pro abortion. Biden is pro choice. If you fail to appreciate the difference, or appreciate it and refuse to accept it, then your arguments will not fail. They will simply be ignored.
You are welcome to try to make a distinction between the two. I don’t get into arguments about it as those who are pro choice or pro abortion have an emotional block into which I am not willing to venture.
 
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Freddy:
Nobody is pro abortion. Biden is pro choice. If you fail to appreciate the difference, or appreciate it and refuse to accept it, then your arguments will not fail. They will simply be ignored.
You are welcome to try to make a distinction between the two. I don’t get into arguments about it as those who are pro choice or pro abortion have an emotional block into which I am not willing to venture.
Those who are pro-tyrrany or pro-life often have their own emotional blocks that keep them from considering the implications of their position.

Why make distinctions?
 
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otjm:
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Freddy:
Nobody is pro abortion. Biden is pro choice. If you fail to appreciate the difference, or appreciate it and refuse to accept it, then your arguments will not fail. They will simply be ignored.
You are welcome to try to make a distinction between the two. I don’t get into arguments about it as those who are pro choice or pro abortion have an emotional block into which I am not willing to venture.
Those who are pro-tyrrany or pro-life often have their own emotional blocks that keep them from considering the implications of their position.

Why make distinctions?
Because they are important.

If my daughter became pregnant again it may mean her life. Would I want her to be in a position where she had to choose whether to have an abortion or not? No. In normal circumstances would I want her to have an abortion? No. Is it my choice whether she would or not? No.

But do I want her to have that choice? Yes, I do.

So I am not pro abortion. I am pro choice.
 
Yes…if. If things were different, if enough people voted differently, if millions of others thought like you. In the land of IF things are always possible, but in the world we inhabit, not so much.
I see you’re ignoring that a majority of Americans feel the two party system is insufficient to represent all Americans. And, of course, you once again repeat the self-fulfilling prophecy.
Successful third parties do not spring up from nothing. There has been no groundwork laid for one here.
There has, but they’re kept down because a large group of Americans takes it upon themselves to tell others that voting third party is a waste and it won’t matter.
It is useless to order pistachio if there is no chance of getting it.
It’s more like someone telling you they won’t have pistachio over and over again, and once you’re there you don’t pay attention to the actual pistachio they have available because you were convinced it didn’t exist and your friend is standing in front of it.
I was never a fan of the “ destroy the village in order to save it ” approach.
One president you don’t agree with can’t destroy the country.
 
Those who are pro-tyrrany or pro-life
Ah, yes, tyranny… that’s what tyrants are famous for, outlawing fundamental human rights abuses like murder.

Reminds me of those tyrants who outlawed slavery. Who do they think they were, tyrannizing those slaveowners?
 
Those who are pro-tyrrany or pro-life often have their own emotional blocks that keep them from considering the implications of their position.
I happen to have had twin daughters. They were born 9 weeks and a day early, weighing 3 pounds, 5 ounces and 3 pounds 6 ounces, spent 5 and ahlaf weeks in NICU and came home on heart monitors for 6 months. And while they were in NICU, they had another baby striving to life - he was born at 2 pounds.

Children bigger than their roommate - in fact, bigger than they were are aborted. I don’t have an emotional block. I have a real world lived experience. Every day I went up to the NICU, i thought of how many children the size of my twins or that boy were aborted.

No, there is no block. I most certianly considered my position, and I have, befoer that and since that experience considered the situation bp=people “get themselves into”. I also consider the choice the make, and the actions the abortionist takes to kill and dismember the baby - or babies in order to remove them from the womb.

I don’t march. I don’t join prayer vigils outside abortuariums.

But I haven’t, I don’t, and I never will forget - and it is not an emotional block.
One president you don’t agree with can’t destroy the country.
You might want to interview some people who have lived under Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro; I suspect they might disagree with you.
 
Those who are pro-tyrrany or pro-life often have their own emotional blocks that keep them from considering the implications of their position.

Why make distinctions?
Pro-tyranny. Lovely. Psychologically analyzing an opponent in a political debate is often a sign that the analyser doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

By the way are you an anarchist? Because your positions on things reeks of anarchism.
 
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