Story: "Trans teen regrets his ‘Frankenstein’ transition."

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What role, according to you, does the individual person play in controlling/overcoming what ails them mentally or spiritually? No role at all?
Positive thinking, prayer, is always encouraged. No argument. But we still go to doctors and psychiatrists and the like.
How are we to know what is internally possible for the individual if our sole operating assumption is that the person him/herself is completely helpless to do anything and the sole recourse for them is external to them or physical?
Strawman. Take it up with whomever argues that! No one did.
Does God and grace operate externally to the person or from within the person him/herself?

I suspect this is the fundamental issue with where we disagree.
Were the matter in discussion anything other than gender identity disorder or homosexuality, Would your response be the same?
 
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To be clear…

What role, according to you, does the individual person play in controlling/overcoming what ails them mentally or spiritually? No role at all?
Sometimes individuals don’t have much control over what ails them mentally. My father has Alzheimer’s and it’s had a significant mental effect on him. But there’s not much he can do to make the amyloid plaques in his brain that are the likely cause of Alzheimer’s go away.
 
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HarryStotle:
To be clear…

What role, according to you, does the individual person play in controlling/overcoming what ails them mentally or spiritually? No role at all?
Sometimes individuals don’t have much control over what ails them mentally. My father has Alzheimer’s and it’s had a significant mental effect on him. But there’s not much he can do to make the amyloid plaques in his brain that are the likely cause of Alzheimer’s go away.
You then would have to make the case that gender dysphoria is akin to Alzeimer’s, but that hasn’t been done has it? Which takes us back to the question of cause, assuming that gender dysphoria isn’t purely a psycho-social phenomena completely to be explained by environmental influences. I suppose the benefit of convincing others that there is “something more” to it is that it incites all manner of emotional and political support without the need to look deeper into the actual roots of the condition.
 
Until they do however, to just say to sufferers “too bad, so sad, here’s a length of rope” is simply unethical in its own right.
I haven’t seen anyone say such a thing and I have read all of the posts up to this reply. This seems to imply that those who disagree with surgery are wishing death upon those who desire such surgery.
 
This seems to imply that those who disagree with surgery are wishing death upon those who desire such surgery.
I don’t think that’s the meaning. More that those who reject surgery in severe cases might appear indifferent to the patient’s suffering and circumstances (suicide being a heightened risk) given surgery shows some prospect of helping the individual, but no other treatment does.
 
I haven’t seen anyone say such a thing and I have read all of the posts up to this reply. This seems to imply that those who disagree with surgery are wishing death upon those who desire such surgery.
Exactly.
I believe this a deliberate attempt to straw man those that do not agree.
 
I believe this a deliberate attempt to straw man those that do not agree.
I don’t think that’s the case and I note the other poster has a family member who suffers from dysphoria.

A number of posters reject surgery outright and regardless of the level of suffering of the patient. Since there is no other identified treatment in some of these more severe case, I think those posters ought to give clear reasons why surgery cannot (in their view) be considered beyond making the obvious observations that the body parts in question are healthy.
 
Exactly.
I believe this a deliberate attempt to straw man those that do not agree.
No it’s just hyperbole to emphasize the point that doing nothing, or doing something ineffective, may result in more suffering including suicides. You do recognize hyperbole don’t you? Are you from the US? If so your president uses it all the time.
 
No it’s just hyperbole to emphasize the point that doing nothing, or doing something ineffective, may result in more suffering
So when you said in reference to the unwillingness to commit to mutilation:
"By refusing to treat, you are de facto saying “it’s better to let them commit suicide than treating them”. "

You were simply engaging in hyperbole?
 
Yes.

You are however increasing the risk of suicide by refusing to treat.

I want to say that perhaps if you haven’t had a child at high risk for suicide, it might be hard to understand, and I can accept that. It’s just about the hardest thing for a parent to face short of suicide itself.

I don’t hold it against you if you can’t understand that. It’s much harder in experience than in theory.
 
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Ok I’m not playing your games anymore. Read my last statement. And then leave me alone. You’re hitting in an area that is very personal and painful.
 
I have very little sense of what is and is not hyperbole.
I am honestly confused what your position is.
Ive read the same posts as you - I’m not having any difficulty understanding OraLabora.
 
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HarryStotle:
To be clear…

What role, according to you, does the individual person play in controlling/overcoming what ails them mentally or spiritually? No role at all?
Sometimes individuals don’t have much control over what ails them mentally. My father has Alzheimer’s and it’s had a significant mental effect on him. But there’s not much he can do to make the amyloid plaques in his brain that are the likely cause of Alzheimer’s go away.
Sometimes does not automatically transpose to always.

The case still needs to be made that gender dysphoria is akin to Alzheimer’s.

You cannot assume it is merely because it might be.
 
In summary: I believe it is morally licit to treat the transgendered according to the WPATH standards of care, which in extremis can include surgery.

I believe the « informed consent » treatment model as presented in the article is deficient and as such morally dubious, and especially, morally illicit in the immature.
 
You cannot assume it is merely because it might be.
You can however look at the current state of scholarly research which while not proving, does strongly suggest structural brain differences and differences in brain androgen take up in utero.

Google is your friend. Or you can continue to utter uninformed opinions. The choice is yours.
 
Google is your friend. Or you can continue to utter uninformed opinions. The choice is yours.
Nah, Google isn’t “my friend.” It is skewed in its results. I have other mechanisms to can use.

And claiming something is true because some studies “strongly support” your viewpoint isn’t exactly unbiased nor completely informed.

We have good indication from your “utter uninformed opinions” comment that you would likely not present the other perspective fairly even if it were significantly represented in the “current state of scholarly research.”
 
And claiming something is true because some studies “strongly support” your viewpoint isn’t exactly unbiased nor completely informed.
Is guaranteed “truth” a necessary prerequisite or does medical science proceed by weighing the evidence?
 
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HarryStotle:
And claiming something is true because some studies “strongly support” your viewpoint isn’t exactly unbiased nor completely informed.
Is guaranteed “truth” a necessary prerequisite or does medical science proceed by weighing the evidence?
Again, that all depends upon what is at stake.

The regret shown by the individual in the OP demonstrates that a great deal could be at stake and that some in the medical profession are all too ready to undertake imprudent courses of action.

Frankly our entire society has gone just a tad unhinged in terms of what it is ready to accept in just the past few years. That ought to be worrisome to everyone.
 
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