Straight answers sought about marriage/separation

  • Thread starter Thread starter olph
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m so sorry for the struggles you and you family are going through. I’ll pray that things will improve.
My husband and I went through some very serious struggles a few years ago. We went to many counselors NONE OF THEM HELPED AT ALL!( they were secular so that my have been part of the problem.)
Two things I learned that brought us through the tough times are, The Holy Spirit is the only thing that can heal a marriage.And marriage is a daily act of forgiveness. It may sound so simple but it really works.
Believe it or not I learned so much through listening to Dr.Ray and Dr.Colleen. If we had found them sooner we would have saved some money we spent on counseling. They are on catholic radio.
Our marriage is better today than I ever thought it could be. No things aren’t perfect but we try to join together to solve problems rather than work against each other.
Steve Woods has some really great resources on his Web site .
I really pray that you can work thing out. You both have the opprotunity to teach them what marriage is all about COMMITMENT.
God Bless
 
40.png
olph:
O.K., you have all really gone out of your way to help me out. The advice seems to be really not lining up with my feelings. There is more info on our mess that may change some of your responses. I was reluctant to mention it earlier, because my gut feeling is that it is not true.

Our marriage problems came to a head nearly 3 years ago. That is when I finally got some good counsel from a solid priest and realized that it was not me to blame for our marriage problems, it was my husband and his temper and his ruthless control of the family. He is the one that gave me the Gary Smalley book.

My husband had a pretty good relationship with all the kids save the oldest boy who had really felt boxed in by his controlling nature and had already made himself pretty distant from his father.

About 6 months after that epiphany for me, the oldest girls started showing that they did not like him. They complained that he ate too much, that he smelled bad, that he didn’t mow the lawn as often as other dads - weird minor stuff, (some of which was true!)

Then, one of the girls (12 at the time) said she did not like the way he used to cuddle with her a year and more before. He would put his hand under her shirt when he gave her back rubs after mass on Sundays on the family room couch.
A younger one said that she felt the same. That he once put his hand on her stomach and she did not like it.

I mentioned it to our marriage counselor, and he did not see anything in it worth pursuing.

About six months later, the lawyer (that runs a marriage counseling business) thought I should take them to someone else for a second opinion.

When I did, the nurse that saw them siad she needed to report it to social services. Turns out their story changed and now were saying that he (for the 12 year old) touched her breasts once a week for 2 years, and (for the 11 year old) that he touched her breasts a few times.

The Social services investigated, the Sheriff investigated and both immediately concluded that the charges were unfounded.

Husband, of course denied all but innocent cuddling. He said “heck, they didn’t even have breasts to fondle at the time, and if he were so inclined would not have done so in the family room after mass in the busiest room in the house.”

As I said, my gut feeling is that he is telling the truth, and that the girls are just unable to express some very serious negative feelings that they have towards him. Only God, the kids and my husband will ever know. My husband has been tested by numerous shrinks and all come up with him not being inclined to pedophilia or sex/porn addiction.

Anyway, here we are. THe girls have never changed their story since, nor has my husband. I guess the seriousness of their feelings make me perhaps overprotective of them. I certainly don’t want them to think that I think they are lying.

Does that change anything of how you guys think I should handle things?
Click to expand...
OMIGAWD

Yes it does.

100%

And I think your gut instincts are right because a mother’s gut instincts about such a situation are usually correct.

And I apologize for thinking that this was simply a matter of you not wanting to repair your marriage. If you are struggling to resolve whether or not to remain married to a man who may have improperly touched his own daughters, while you may still get some benefit from retrouville, I can certainly understand why his daughters do not wish to remain in the same room with him.

You and your family are in my prayers.
 
I also need to ask, and I do not mean to sound disrespectful, but why did you not get your kids out of that situation immediately if you even suspected that they were in any kind of danger at all?

Other posters, much wiser than I, have suggested that you might be either pulling the wool over our eyes or that your girls may have conjured up these allegations in order to bolster your own dislike towards your husband.

That could be true. This is a computer board. For all we know you are a group of college students at UC Berkeley having fun with all the earnest and real Catholics trying to help who they believe is a fellow Catholic Christian in trouble. We don’t really know if anyone is who they say they are on this board. We trust in the Holy Spirit and place ourselves under the mantle of protection offered by Our Lady.

I will tell you that you have been given some very sound, straight forward and hard hitting advice. Mine still stands. While I always believe that if one suspects sexual abuse, or experiences physical abuse the safety of the children is paramont. However, if one is merely playing psychological games in order to get your way then you are perpetrating the same kind of emotional control and abuse you claim to have suffered at the hands of your husband. And no matter how you cut it, two wrongs NEVER make a right.

We cannot teach a pig to sing opera. Either follow through on retrouville or pack it up and file for an annulment. The choice is yours. My prayers are with you.
 
Olph,

Do your gut instincts really tell you that your husband is innocent of this? I question if this is what your instincts are really telling you. I got a sense from what you wrote in your first posts that this was a possibility with your daughters. Also, when I look at the way that you are dealing with this situation, it tells me that you think your daughters are right and your husband is capable of this. I think possibly you are in a situation where you are feeling very isolated and very powerless. You don’t know what to do, and the thought that your husband could have molested your daughters is so terrifying that you aren’t able to consider it a real possibility.

Practically speaking, this is tough. You have 9 children that you are responsible for. You don’t work and are totally reliant on your husband for financial support. You are powerless and he is staying at home, getting his passive agressive thrill out of all of this.

Is there no where you can go with your kids? Is there no one you can turn to for help? Relatives or friends?

I know I am counting here on my own instinct to read this situation, and I hope I am wrong. It would be so much easier if the solution was just to be more loving and respectful to your husband. Something tells me that this is not the answer though.

I will keep you in my prayers and say the rosary for you and your children tonight.
 
40.png
LSK:
I also need to ask, and I do not mean to sound disrespectful, but why did you not get your kids out of that situation immediately if you even suspected that they were in any kind of danger at all?
Click to expand...
She doesn’t suspect it. He has been investigated by people who are not sympathetic with accused abusers and he was cleared.

On the other hand, you have some daughters who don’t like their father and want to force him out of the house. What better way than to escalate their accusations?

Now their opinions have spread to younger kids who claim dad “will ruin the party”.

My view hasn’t changed. Your daughters are controlling the entire family. Every post you make only further confirms that.
 
Oh, I see Semper Jase. Thank you. This just seems weird then, doesn’t it? All about the husband being the bad guy. Well, I reserve my judgement then…I think I’m going to just go back to trying to get my pig to learn the opening aria to Carmen…:whacky:
 
Jase,

The margin of error acceptable to a district attorney looking to prosecute a case and the margin of error acceptable to a mother looking to pretect her children from harm are two entirely different things. Very frequently people are able to get away with sexual abuse because it is very difficult to prove. This is a very difficult situation for a wife and a mother to be in.
 
40.png
LSK:
I think I’m going to just go back to trying to get my pig to learn the opening aria to Carmen…:whacky:
Click to expand...
If that effort is inspired by this thread, wouldn’t the “In Paradisum” of a Requiem be a more appropriate selection?
 
40.png
SemperJase:
On the other hand, you have some daughters who don’t like their father and want to force him out of the house. What better way than to escalate their accusations?
Click to expand...
There could be some super evil kids out there with nothing better to do than execute a coordinated plot against their dad for years, but that seems less likely than that something happened to motivate their behavior, something more than just being your average dad. If it were me, one day I’d be too lazy to get myself up and out of the room when dad came in. I’d just keep lolling on the couch and my plot would be out the window. Note, however, I am lazy.😃
 
I am so sorry, I do not use the forums often enough to realize that the boards do not automatically take you to page two of a thread. I sent my last post not having read olph’s expansion of the situation. :o

With all of the details it is way too much for me, and at this point I would say that Al Anon would be extremely appropriate. When you are fortunate enough to be in a group with experienced members who have truly become wise, you will learn more than thousands of dollars worth of counseling could ever lead you to. Maybe you could give it a try, olph. I’ll pray for your family again at adoration.

And with that, I’ll stay out of it!

God bless!
 
Thanks everyone.

There just does not seem to be much hope for our situation. Things were pretty bad before the allegations grew. And still I don’t feel that my husband would have ever touched my girls inappropriately. Yet, here we are. I can betray my daughters by believing Dad or I can betray my husband by believing the girls. Unless someone fesses up, it seems that this mystery will forever bar us from having a happy family.

I know you are supposed to forgive, but I don’t even know who to forgive, no less how.
 
You betray no one if you believe the truth and toss out the lies. I realize that you cannot ever be certain unless, like you say, someone fesses up.

Your husband has agreed not to be alone with the children, no? I think this is best for all involved. They may very well be uncomfortable alone with him regardless of whether he touched them inappropriately. Another poster suggested that perhaps your husband did nothing wrong yet the girls’ story grew after provocation. This is certainly a strong possibility. Anyone who has ever been the object of someone’s affection and didn’t share similar interest knows how uncomfortable it is to be touched affectionately even if it is innocent. For example, an arm around the shoulder from some guy you just don’t have feelings for.

Could you try this approach with your daughters? Maybe take them out to eat for a mother-daughter outing, then address the situation while driving or something.

“Your father and I are at our wits end trying to figure out how to mend our family and be happy together. I realize that you’re uncomfortable with the level of physical affection he showed you, especially considering his relationship with all of us was so strained because of his control issues. He’s made a lot of changes to become a better man since then.
My primary role as a mother is to nurture and protect you and all of my children. No one is going to make you sit next to him or even near him. He has agreed to be mindful of your sensitivity, so there is no reason to be fearful of him.
That being said, he is still your father, and it is your duty to be respectful of him despite his failings. There will be no more name-calling and no more leaving the room when he enters.
I’m very concerned that our family dynamics will have a serious negative impact on the way you’re able to enjoy a relationship with your future husband someday, if that is indeed your vocation. It is very important to me as your mother that you are able to work through these issues sooner rather than later. I’m certain there are more things you’re holding against your father that haven’t come out yet. I think you’ll feel better if you confront them with him rather than running from them physically and emotionally.
How you decide to address the further issues with your father is ultimately up to you. In the meantime, I expect you to behave like a young lady by respecting both me and your father at all times. Until you’re a parent, you’ll never really understand how much it hurts to see your children suffer. I’m doing all I can to heal our family and so is your father, but the rest of you kids need to do your part to. I love you, name.”

I wouldn’t necessarily bring up the sexual assault issue specifically. If you validate her feelings without validating or invalidating her accusations, she may offer some additional insight on her own… or she may not.
 
40.png
dulcissima:
Jase,

The margin of error acceptable to a district attorney looking to prosecute a case and the margin of error acceptable to a mother looking to pretect her children from harm are two entirely different things. Very frequently people are able to get away with sexual abuse because it is very difficult to prove. This is a very difficult situation for a wife and a mother to be in.
Click to expand...
Agreed, however what if the daughters are lying? What of the father? Certainly, you’re not supporting the idea of a wife and mother leaving her husband over a situation in which there are no facts to support an abuse has taken place. This man (as did this lady) made a vow before God and entered this sacrament. It should not be tossed aside over an unproven allegation. Marriage is for life. Matthew 19:5-9 declares in Christ’s own words that a marriage cannot be thrown out by man. However, if it becomes known that there are facts, which support the daughter’s claims, then the daughters MUST be protected. Nevertheless, “gut instincts” or suspicions are very different from facts. Therefore, in the light of what has been presented in this thread, this family NEEDS to pursue reconciliation (through the Church or otherwise) with the intent of repairing the marriage. From what I have already read, the husband appears to be making an earnest effort to do this. It is time that the wife and children come onboard and get this thing worked out.
 
40.png
vluvski:
You betray no one if you believe the truth and toss out the lies. I realize that you cannot ever be certain unless, like you say, someone fesses up.

Your husband has agreed not to be alone with the children, no? I think this is best for all involved. They may very well be uncomfortable alone with him regardless of whether he touched them inappropriately. Another poster suggested that perhaps your husband did nothing wrong yet the girls’ story grew after provocation. This is certainly a strong possibility. Anyone who has ever been the object of someone’s affection and didn’t share similar interest knows how uncomfortable it is to be touched affectionately even if it is innocent. For example, an arm around the shoulder from some guy you just don’t have feelings for.

Could you try this approach with your daughters? Maybe take them out to eat for a mother-daughter outing, then address the situation while driving or something.

“Your father and I are at our wits end trying to figure out how to mend our family and be happy together. I realize that you’re uncomfortable with the level of physical affection he showed you, especially considering his relationship with all of us was so strained because of his control issues. He’s made a lot of changes to become a better man since then.
My primary role as a mother is to nurture and protect you and all of my children. No one is going to make you sit next to him or even near him. He has agreed to be mindful of your sensitivity, so there is no reason to be fearful of him.
That being said, he is still your father, and it is your duty to be respectful of him despite his failings. There will be no more name-calling and no more leaving the room when he enters.
I’m very concerned that our family dynamics will have a serious negative impact on the way you’re able to enjoy a relationship with your future husband someday, if that is indeed your vocation. It is very important to me as your mother that you are able to work through these issues sooner rather than later. I’m certain there are more things you’re holding against your father that haven’t come out yet. I think you’ll feel better if you confront them with him rather than running from them physically and emotionally.
How you decide to address the further issues with your father is ultimately up to you. In the meantime, I expect you to behave like a young lady by respecting both me and your father at all times. Until you’re a parent, you’ll never really understand how much it hurts to see your children suffer. I’m doing all I can to heal our family and so is your father, but the rest of you kids need to do your part to. I love you, name.”

I wouldn’t necessarily bring up the sexual assault issue specifically. If you validate her feelings without validating or invalidating her accusations, she may offer some additional insight on her own… or she may not.
Click to expand...
Vluvski is speaking very wisely here. It would be a great benefit to your entire family if you would seriously consider this approach. God bless.
 
I agree with V…she gave you a great idea…it would mean putting on your big girl pants, being a real mother ( in terms of taking the reins and moving forward ) and demonstrating to your daughters that women of grace and dignity are required to act with responsibility and with Christ at the center of their actions.
 
Olph,

I still don’t understand your not wanting to go to Retrouvaille.
You say you don’t want to be in close proximity to him, but you two won’t be ‘alone’ alone for most of the time. The whole purpose of this event is to have guidance and support as couples face the deepest issues which are tearing away at their marriage. Do you honestly think you are the only wife in your situation? You’re not. Other couples have even worse problems to overcome, some not as troubled as yours, but certainly every couple there will have a huge cross to learn how to pick up together in order to carry the marriage further to God.

When you sign up for a retreat call the director of the program, tell him/her your specific concerns about ‘alone’ time with your husband, I’m certain they will modify the program to address your concerns…

Why won’t you even consider it? What do you have to lose? What is the worst possible thing being alone with your husband be? If the coordinators know what that is they can help ensure the alone time would not allow for that to occur, but it’s not enough to say “I don’t want to be in the same space as him”. You have to tell them why spefically (don’t have to tell us, but you do need to tell them so they can provide for your security).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top