Strong Desire to Attend Mass, But Not Catholic

[cat3gs]

Wow. I’m overwhelmed and touched by all the positive responses! I should have expected as much on a Catholic forum but honestly I thought there would be at least one person here saying I was out to lunch. I suppose though that attitude comes from surrounding myself with non-religious people for several years. In my circle of friends and acquaintances, any so-called spiritual experiences are generally associated with an overactive imagination and/or insanity.

In any event, I never expected so many positive responses and so quickly; I really appreciate it. Its certainly made my decision to attend mass far easier.

Before I comment individually on all your posts, I want to share a brief update, because I think its quite remarkable…

Since I moved to this neighbourhood a couple of months back, I’ve frequented a nearby coffee shop and take walks in a nearby park. In both the park and the coffee shop, I often see the same older man, also walking or having a coffee. After a few times of seeing each other he started saying hello to me, and we’ve had some brief general conversations, such as discussing the weather. This morning I saw him in his car, and he waved to me and smiled so I waved back. He seems like a very nice man, and the only “stranger” I’ve had any contact with in this neighbourhood thus far…

WOW!! I just got goose bumps!!! This is wonderful and incredible! I needed to hear your story today!! Thank you for sharing!
God Bless and Good luck
This morning I was thinking about mass again so I went online and found the church’s website. I thought I would read a bit about the parish itself in an attempt to feel more comfortable to attend. Well, when I clicked on the priest’s page, guess whose picture was staring back at me!! I almost passed out. Its still jacket weather here, so I guess I never really noticed a collar… though in retrospect he does always wear black… just never thought anything of it… but wow!! Seriously, what are the odds that the one and only person in this neighbourhood who has befriended me is the priest of the parish I’ve been thinking about attending?? I am floored…

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Thanks Ignatius.

This is a bit of an aside, but I’ve noticed many people on this thread recommending various Hebrew Catholic groups to me, etc. Is there some reason that I must associate with Jews who have converted to Catholicism? I’m not saying I don’t want to associate with them, but its also not something particularly important to me either. As I have mentioned several times in this thread, I am a *secular *Jew. What that means is, I was not raised Jewish per se. I consider being Jewish my ethnicity. I know a bit about being Jewish, but have only been to synagogue a few times in my life and actually know more about being Catholic at this point! I’m wondering if I have some sort of “extra” obligation as a Jew?

Also, maybe I should put this in another thread, but I was reading recently that, the Catholic Church does not seek to convert Jews, since we already have a convenant with God? So then, is my conversion not necessary? I don’t really want to get into a discussion about it as that would be quite off topic to this thread, but if someone could point me to an official Vatican document I could read, I would be grateful. I tried a couple of searches but I’m not sure what to search for and didn’t have much luck.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

The most inspiring and edifying part is that she is not holding back at all from the experience - she is just diving right into it and enjoying the whole thing.

Thanks! I really am enjoying it, more than anything else in my life! I think I was meant to be Catholic all along. I had that period of a couple of weeks where I had very bad thoughts, but I got through it OK and I am prepared to go through it again. I can’t imagine how much better its going to be once I actually convert, but I am very excited!

po18guy:

It would appear that we are witnessing not only the Lord’s call, but a call to a vocation.

Could be… at this point I am praying for God’s will while at the same time trying not to get ahead of myself, as I am not even Catholic yet! But I do have a very strong desire for closeness to God, that much is for sure. Where it leads me, who knows… I am patient though, just enjoying the experience overall.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Oh and thanks once again to everyone who has been sending me PMs and emails. I read and appreciate all of them. Please know though that right now I’m not able to reply all the time, I simply don’t have the time. I’m spending the majority of my "free"computer time in the Prayer Intentions forum now, that’s where I feel I should be… so I always seem to run out of time to reply to PMs and emails. I do read everything though and pray for all of you who contact me privately.

 

[grandfather]

Thanks Ignatius.

This is a bit of an aside, but I’ve noticed many people on this thread recommending various Hebrew Catholic groups to me, etc. Is there some reason that I must associate with Jews who have converted to Catholicism? I’m not saying I don’t want to associate with them, but its also not something particularly important to me either. As I have mentioned several times in this thread, I am a *secular *Jew. What that means is, I was not raised Jewish per se. I consider being Jewish my ethnicity. I know a bit about being Jewish, but have only been to synagogue a few times in my life and actually know more about being Catholic at this point! I’m wondering if I have some sort of “extra” obligation as a Jew?

Also, maybe I should put this in another thread, but I was reading recently that, the Catholic Church does not seek to convert Jews, since we already have a convenant with God? So then, is my conversion not necessary? I don’t really want to get into a discussion about it as that would be quite off topic to this thread, but if someone could point me to an official Vatican document I could read, I would be grateful. I tried a couple of searches but I’m not sure what to search for and didn’t have much luck.

If you were Irish you probably would feel some connection to the Irish ethnically at least. Part of being Irish is a strong connection to being Catholic. Even if you were not Catholic, but Irish, you would be aware of this as pertaining to Irishness. You might also be interested in some famous Irish historical figures.

There is something peculiar, distinct, to the Jews that no other ethnic group shares and none ever will. It is not that they historically see their religion as inherited by blood. Other religions have also believed this. The peculiarity is the the religion of the Jews is true. The other ancient religions are false. The Creator of everything that exists, physically and spiritually revealed Himself to the Jews and to the rest of us, through them. Other religions may have had some experience of spiritual nature and their thinkers been extraordiarily keen in having insights beyond the physical reality, but God’s public revelation is of, about and to the Jews. Everything in it points to Jesus, the Savior of the world and King of the Universe. We Catholics believe it. That includes you. We are connected to it. It is all true, but there is more.

This history is one of a series of covenants God made to the Jews and mankind. He is the Savior of all though, not only the Jews. The new and everlasting covenant is expanded for all.

You will read many things from supposed Catholic sources that are distorted or false. This causes confusion as you are experiencing. One of the ways we can look at controversies when they arise, such as the one you mention regarding conversion, is to look at them through the lens of history. Truth does not change. Jesus promised that He would be with His Church and lead her into all truth and be with her until the end of time. A practice that has existed from the time of Saint Peter can not be in error. If we are Catholic today we are so, because we share the faith of Peter, James, John, Paul, etc. So for example someone may come along in the year 1800 or 1900 and says something the Church has always done is wrong, mistaken, such as baptizing infants. The historical record shows this was always done. But this new notion claims it should not be done. God does not want it that way. Many Protestants believe this. If the Church practiced or believed what is false for all these centuries then Jesus’s promises to us are false.

The Church has always prayed for the conversion of Jews and welcomed them. I am not Jewish, but I am interested in these conversion stories which are occassionally miraculous (Ratisbonne, for example).

If the Church were to abandon her prayers for conversion of Jews she would be abandoning her mission given by Christ, to go to all nations and preach the gospel of repentance for forgiveness of sins.

 

[Liraco]

This is a bit of an aside, but I’ve noticed many people on this thread recommending various Hebrew Catholic groups to me, etc. Is there some reason that I must associate with Jews who have converted to Catholicism?

…I’m wondering if I have some sort of “extra” obligation as a Jew?

In the case of Ignatius, it would seem he only read the original post and replied and thus assumed that you were a practicing Jew (which you later clear up). He says after all “you are warmly welcomed to attend Mass” when you’ve made quite clear you’ve done so very frequently.

There’s no extra obligation. The reason I had mentioned people like Sister Rosalind was simply because:
a) She’s just a very nice person to listen to
b) She makes clear that “being Catholic is the most Jewish thing you can do”. So it’s not like you need some “extra” obligation. Quite the contrary, just be a good Catholic.

My guess though is that most people equate being born a Jew automatically to being of the Jewish faith.

Apologies if I am part of this problem with annoying you with making it seem as though you should associate with Hebrew Catholic groups. I suppose I do mention Sr. Moss one too many times.

Also, maybe I should put this in another thread, but I was reading recently that, the Catholic Church does not seek to convert Jews, since we already have a convenant with God? So then, is my conversion not necessary?

Where did you read that we don’t seek to convert them? Hopefully the following will clear things up:

Excerpt from “Salvation is from the Jews”
“it is not a matter of conversion at all. If I was a Jew before, hoping and praying for the coming of the Messiah, then aren’t I even more a Jew now that I’m worshiping and adoring that very same Messiah? How could a Jew become any less Jewish by recognizing and falling in love with the Jewish Messiah, the very purpose and heart of Judaism?”

And also look at the second question of the page:
Since God doesn’t break his promise, doesn’t this mean Jews don’t have to follow Jesus, the new covenant?

---

As a side note on conversion, Mother Theresa never sought to convert, but to show God’s love and that was all that was needed to convert so many. I’m sure you especially could see that the love that poured from her spoke louder about God’s love than any words could.

Perhaps what you read talked about proselytizing in the sense of forcing people into converting which is certainly not what we seek. We do certainly want the conversion of ALL people, of any or no faith and we certainly should continue praying for it.

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks Ignatius.

This is a bit of an aside, but I’ve noticed many people on this thread recommending various Hebrew Catholic groups to me, etc. Is there some reason that I must associate with Jews who have converted to Catholicism? I’m not saying I don’t want to associate with them, but its also not something particularly important to me either. As I have mentioned several times in this thread, I am a *secular *Jew. What that means is, I was not raised Jewish per se. I consider being Jewish my ethnicity. I know a bit about being Jewish, but have only been to synagogue a few times in my life and actually know more about being Catholic at this point! I’m wondering if I have some sort of “extra” obligation as a Jew?

NO, heavens, no! I think that people just thought you would be interested, or else maybe assumed that as a Jew by ethnicity, this kind of thing would be attractive to you. If it isn’t, then, don’t worry about it at all - it could just end up getting you all confused, which is the last thing you need at this point in your journey.

Keep it simple.

Also, maybe I should put this in another thread, but I was reading recently that, the Catholic Church does not seek to convert Jews, since we already have a convenant with God?

This is talking about practicing Jews who are happy in their religious practice, and telling us not to uproot them from where they are. I think it’s more of a pastoral thing, to just leave them in God’s capable hands, on account of the damage done by past generations of Christians who did things that now make any kind of evangelistic approach toward the Jews to be fraught with all kinds of pitfalls and setbacks.

So then, is my conversion not necessary?

Conversion is necessary for everyone - one way or another. God has already called you to yours - you should continue to follow the path that He has set you on.

How the Jews (those not being called overtly, as you are) will be converted is a mystery that only God understands, but for the time being, we are being asked to take a “hands off” position with regard to evangelizing them.

 

[arcee]

Hi Susan,

Based on what I am reading, God is guiding you in your journey to the Catholic Faith. You will notice that the more you want to know Him, the more things will come into place. Be patient.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

NO, heavens, no! I think that people just thought you would be interested, or else maybe assumed that as a Jew by ethnicity, this kind of thing would be attractive to you. If it isn’t, then, don’t worry about it at all - it could just end up getting you all confused, which is the last thing you need at this point in your journey.

Thanks, its good to know I don’t have to. I was beginning to wonder if it was necessary that I incorporate being Jewish into my journey in the Catholic faith. Maybe eventually I will do that, but I don’t really want to do that at this point, for a couple of reasons. Number one, confusion, as you mentioned. Already I’ve been a bit confused - for example, with cremation… my mother was cremated and I was thinking it was forbidden for Catholics to be cremated, but then my priest corrected me and after some thought I realized it was a Rabbi who had told me that. That’s just one example, but there’s been a few where I’ve gotten the two faiths mixed up and I want to avoid that if I can…

Secondly, and this is something I personally need to work on, but… I don’t have the fondest feelings for my mother’s birth family, who are Orthodox Jews and completely disowned her… we lived in abject poverty in one of the worst neighborhoods in NYC and they could have helped us. But my mother was dead to them, and I’m not even sure they know I exist. When I think of being Jewish in the religious sense, I often think of them, their disapproval of my mother and its painful. It is something I need to deal with, and I am at the point where I’m now able to pray for them without feeling angry, but still… I don’t want to do everything all at once. First things first… I want to be Catholic.

jmcrae:

This is talking about practicing Jews who are happy in their religious practice, and telling us not to uproot them from where they are. I think it’s more of a pastoral thing, to just leave them in God’s capable hands, on account of the damage done by past generations of Christians who did things that now make any kind of evangelistic approach toward the Jews to be fraught with all kinds of pitfalls and setbacks.

Ah OK… thanks so much, that makes so much sense! I had trouble understanding what I read but you explained it beautifully. And in that case it really doesn’t apply to me and my personal conversion, since I was never a practicing Jew. I guess it would apply to my mother’s family though as they are observant Jews. Its good to know the Church considers them OK where they are… but again, I personally want to be Catholic.

jmcrae:

How the Jews (those not being called overtly, as you are) will be converted is a mystery that only God understands, but for the time being, we are being asked to take a “hands off” position with regard to evangelizing them.

Well, who knows… maybe those of us who convert to Catholicism will have a hand in it. I’m not sure. I would be willing to do that in future, if it was what God asked of me, but right now I just want to convert and become solid in the faith.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

There’s no extra obligation. The reason I had mentioned people like Sister Rosalind was simply because:
a) She’s just a very nice person to listen to
b) She makes clear that “being Catholic is the most Jewish thing you can do”. So it’s not like you need some “extra” obligation. Quite the contrary, just be a good Catholic.

Apologies if I am part of this problem with annoying you with making it seem as though you should associate with Hebrew Catholic groups. I suppose I do mention Sr. Moss one too many times.

No don’t worry, no need to apologize… I really like Sister Rosalind actually. I’ve even thought about writing to her. I was glad to be informed about her. And I’m not complaining or annoyed about anyone recommending Jewish related things to me. I just wondered is all, why it kept happening. I wondered if I had some obligation that I was unaware of.

Liraco:

My guess though is that most people equate being born a Jew automatically to being of the Jewish faith.

Yes probably right… I guess many people assume that. But the truth is, there are many Jews who are not religious in the slightest. There are even Jewish atheists and agnostics. Even from 100 years back or more… Sigmund Freud and Albert Einstein come to mind. And Karl Marx was Jewish too, though raised as a Christian.

Liraco:

Where did you read that we don’t seek to convert them?

I read it in the Nostra Aetate, the Vatican’s Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions. I also read a statement on Catholic-Jewish relations made by the US Catholic Conference of Bishops. I could have misread part of it though, I’m just new to reading these type of documents.

Liraco:

Perhaps what you read talked about proselytizing in the sense of forcing people into converting which is certainly not what we seek.

Yes, that is what I read I think, that Church doesn’t actively seek to convert Jews. Which was a bit confusing to me. But thanks, I think things are a bit clearer to me now!

 

[grandfather]

Thanks, its good to know I don’t have to. I was beginning to wonder if it was necessary that I incorporate being Jewish into my journey in the Catholic faith. Maybe eventually I will do that, but I don’t really want to do that at this point, for a couple of reasons. Number one, confusion, as you mentioned. Already I’ve been a bit confused - for example, with cremation… my mother was cremated and I was thinking it was forbidden for Catholics to be cremated, but then my priest corrected me and after some thought I realized it was a Rabbi who had told me that. That’s just one example, but there’s been a few where I’ve gotten the two faiths mixed up and I want to avoid that if I can…

 

[Susan_Calvin]

If you were Irish you probably would feel some connection to the Irish ethnically at least. Part of being Irish is a strong connection to being Catholic. Even if you were not Catholic, but Irish, you would be aware of this as pertaining to Irishness. You might also be interested in some famous Irish historical figures.

Possibly, but if I was mistreated by Irish people, I might actually feel the opposite and actively dislike them and not want to know much about them at all or be associated with my heritage. Because of the background with my mother’s family, being Jewish is kind of a mixed bag for me. I am proud to be a Jew… yet I am hurt by what my mother’s family has done in the name of the Jewish faith. I honestly consider it my heritage and ethnicity and not my religion. I have never considered it my religion. Its kind of akin to, people of a “Christian background” who still celebrate Christmas and Easter but never go to church. That’s maybe a bad example but its all I can think of at the moment.

I’m actually more interested in my “other half”… The ethnicity of my biological father. I am very curious about it… but since I don’t know who he is, I suppose my curiosity is pretty fruitless because I will probably never know. I’m light brown (skin color) and people sometimes comment that they think I look Hispanic… I’ve been asked if I am Puerto Rican or Mexican. But then I also get that I look Jewish too. Interesting combo!

grandfather:

The Church has always prayed for the conversion of Jews and welcomed them. I am not Jewish, but I am interested in these conversion stories which are occassionally miraculous (Ratisbonne, for example).

Yes, I am interested in the conversion stories also, especially ones about Jewish people. By my question I was more just wondering why the recommendations kept popping up. Like I said earlier I thought maybe I had some obligation. I will likely become more interested in Judaism and how it relates to Catholicism as time goes on, and I am always hearing about it in mass, with the readings and Father’s homilies, but for now I just don’t want to concentrate on it, if that makes any sense.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, I am interested in the conversion stories also, especially ones about Jewish people. By my question I was more just wondering why the recommendations kept popping up. Like I said earlier I thought maybe I had some obligation. I will likely become more interested in Judaism and how it relates to Catholicism as time goes on, and I am always hearing about it in mass, with the readings and Father’s homilies, but for now I just don’t want to concentrate on it, if that makes any sense.

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

I was from a Scottish Presbyterian cultural background, so everyone was always pushing the Scott Hahn story on me (because he was also Scottish Presbyterian) and I always felt very smothered by that - I wanted to have my own conversion experience - not his! There was a lot of pressure to be this amazingly well-educated convert, you know what I mean?

It was only two or three years after my conversion that I was really able to start reading his books and liking them. So I do know exactly how you are feeling.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Even to this day many Jews who become Christians are confused and try to follow Jewish observances and Christian. I know several who became Catholic and still feel drawn to Jewishness.

I investigated Judaism a bit in my mid-twenties and while it is a wonderful faith, and made sense to me, I always felt that it lacked something. It was good, but not good enough, if that makes any sense. Also, I didn’t feel a real sense of belonging there. I think part of the problem was/is my own background, my mother being who she was and me being half Jewish (ethinically) and half something else. I feel much more comfortable in the Catholic faith. The difference is like night and day actually.

grandfather:

The most orthodox Jews of this day are not much different from the most observant Jews of the time of Jesus, the pharisees. He condemned them. He said of them that they would die in their sins, meaning they would go to hell.

Yes… when the pharisees are mentioned at the Gospel reading I inevitably think of my mother’s family. It seems so like what my mother told me about them. But I don’t want them to go to hell. I think they are sincere in their beliefs. And my mother’s family came to America to escape horrible abuse of Jews in eastern Europe. So in a way I sympathize with their position of being xenophobic. At the same time though, I don’t understand why they would turn on one of their own. I guess its like Jesus said, they are concerned with the letter of the law rather than the spirit. Still though they are my family and I don’t want them in hell anymore than I want the man who raped me in hell. I don’t want anyone to go to hell!

grandfather:

You already are Catholic. You may not be initiated formally and practicing sacramentally, but you are Catholic. After you are formally initiated, sacramentally, you will feel more Catholic, and I hope that comes very soon, but there is no doubt that you belong to us. We are yours.

Thank you, that means a lot to me!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

I was from a Scottish Presbyterian cultural background, so everyone was always pushing the Scott Hahn story on me (because he was also Scottish Presbyterian) and I always felt very smothered by that - I wanted to have my own conversion experience - not his! There was a lot of pressure to be this amazingly well-educated convert, you know what I mean?

YUP exactly!!! That is exactly how I feel… I want to have MY OWN experience of conversion. And honestly my conversion (currently) has very little to do with being Jewish. I remember reading somewhere that Sister Rosalind was excited that the Catholic church she visited for the first time had a similar look and layout to a synagogue… I noticed that too, but it never excited me. Because honestly, I have only been to synagogue a few times in my life. It wasn’t a big part of my life as a child or growing up.

My fond memories as a child were of Catholic Sisters… who were a comfort to me, growing up in Mott Haven. And now that I am coming to church, I am very drawn to the Holy Sacrifce of the Mass. My mother and I suffered a lot, and because of that I appreciate Jesus’ suffering for ME and I feel so priviliged to share in that in a small way at each mass. The Jewish people have suffered throughout the ages, but my mother and I suffered because of her “profession” and her being a drug addict and HIV positive, not because we were Jewish. I love reading about how Jesus ate with prostitutes, and healed lepers. I really love it considering who my mother was…

jmcrae:

It was only two or three years after my conversion that I was really able to start reading his books and liking them. So I do know exactly how you are feeling.

Cool! Thanks again!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

If someone would produce an official document or statement from the Vatican that Jews are ok where they are and should not convert, I would probably leave the Church and become Orthodox.

So in that case I must be misunderstanding the Vatican document I read, and the one from the US Bishops…

I think from reading everyone’s replies here though that I am understanding things a bit better. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Be patient.

Do I seem impatient?

Sorry that’s a bit of an inside joke, if you were one of my close friends you would know that I want to know everything, and I want to know it yesterday! Its one of my worst faults. I used to have a T-shirt with a picture of Lisa Simpson, and the words, “overachiever and proud of it”!

To be serious though, I’m just really enjoying the experience of learning about being Catholic, I wouldn’t say I’m impatient in that respect. Just super excited, and sometimes it gets out of hand!! :extrahappy:

 

[grandfather]

That’s maybe a bad example but its all I can think of at the moment.

 

[grandfather]

Do I seem impatient?

Sorry that’s a bit of an inside joke, if you were one of my close friends you would know that I want to know everything, and I want to know it yesterday! Its one of my worst faults. I used to have a T-shirt with a picture of Lisa Simpson, and the words, “overachiever and proud of it”!

To be serious though, I’m just really enjoying the experience of learning about being Catholic, I wouldn’t say I’m impatient in that respect. Just super excited, and sometimes it gets out of hand!! :extrahappy:

There are two activities that are proper to all spiritual beings, men, angels and God. They are knowing and loving.

Your happiness is obvious and infectous. Thanks.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

I wonder if you could get your dna tested and find out your unknown ethnicity.

Oh that’s an interesting idea!! I don’t know why I never thought of it honestly… ! I should see if its possible. If not now, it might be possible in future though. I had thought previously of registering with a DNA registry and hopefully finding family in that way. DNA registries are becoming more common.

grandfather:

Jesus was wounded and broken. Your deepest hurts He shares.

Yes and this is something about Jesus which I like so much.