Struggling with Contradictions in Scripture

[feed_me]

Cool, I can do that. Let me give you a bone to chew on. The bible is 1300 pages long so its written out the way it is for a bigger purpose. When you read the bible you cant just look at only those scriptures and make judgements on it. All those scriptures have a back story to them. Remember that a persons life is longer then 1300 pages(hint: a clue). Ill let you do the work from there.

 

[joeybaggz]

“There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.” Jn 21: 25

 

[Gorgias]

Yet in the past I’ve seen your posts where you “slavishly” rip out a scripture passage out of context and apply it to a point you want to make. NOT seeing said passage in light of the “interpretative hermeneutic” nuance you extol. Seems like you want it both ways.

OK… show me one case where I insisted that there is only one lens through which to view Scripture. Sure, when I’m doing exegesis, I’ll give my take on what’s being said, but that’s vastly different than claiming that there’s only one way to interpret Scripture. That’s just silly…

Most people read and interpret narrative in a literal sense.

Then ‘most people’ need to understand that this is not how the Church approaches Scripture.

And to most people, reading the four passages in Mt. Mk, Lk, and Jn regarding the “good thief” will see a contradiction. A simple and plain contradiction. That’s why, we have scholars and apologists that try to explain the Bible in a historical critical manner.

Precisely.

Unfortunately, we have annoying zealots too.

Sorry I annoyed you by disagreeing with you and demonstrating the flaws in your argument.

 

[joeybaggz]

Sorry I annoyed you by disagreeing with you and demonstrating the flaws in your argument.

There were no flaws in my argument. I simply pointed out to the average Christian (who has not done post graduate work in philosophy or theology - which is probably 95% of the people on this forum) sees contradictions as defined in the Webster’s dictionary sense I cited. I never stated that there was only one way to read and interpret scripture, I only said there were “things and situations in which inconsistent elements are present.” To the average reader. And yes, that is why the church offers bible study, CCD, and various other programs to explain text in addition to that spoken from the pulpit on Sunday.

 

[Gorgias]

There were no flaws in my argument.

Except for the fact that each example you gave of a “contradiction” wasn’t, in fact, a contradiction. Other than that, it was a great argument!

 

[joeybaggz]

You know, for someone who throws around words like interpretative hermeneutic, exegesis, esisgesis, and other $24 dollar words, it astounds me that you don’t understand the simple Webster definition of “contradiction”
Any average Joe would understand that living 900 years when we only live about 75 today is a contradiction, or that one writer cites this and another cites something different, it is a contradiction in the sense that it is inconsistent with a common understanding or the elements that are present.

What we might be doing is simple, I use the term contradiction as how the average Joe would interpret the fact that the sermon in one gospel is on a mount, another says it is on a plain. I think he’d probably say it is a “contradiction.” Now you, with your self evident mastery of graduate and post graduate level of theological education (sorry I don’t know the $24 dollar word for that), see it as …. (again, I don’t know the $24 dollar word.)

 

[Nelka]

Whatever the difficulties attending the genealogies may be, it is evident that they arise from our imperfect knowledge of the laws, usages, and idiom of the Jews, from our ignorance of the true method of reconciling the seeming inconsistencies, or from some corruptions that in process of time may possibly have crept into the text. The silence of the enemies of the gospel, both the heathen and Jewish, during even the first century, is itself a sufficient proof, that neither inconsistency nor corruption could be then alleged against this part of the evangelical history. If the lineal descent of Jesus from David were not indisputable, he could not possess the character essential to the Messias, nor any right to the Jewish throne. We may confidently then assert, that his regular lineal descent from David could not be disproved, since it was not even disputed at a time when alone it could have been done so successfully; and by those persons who were so deeply interested in falsifying the first Christian authorities.

Loading…

www.studylight.org

 

[Benadam]

Why does Luke’s version of the Good Thief, contradict Mark and Matthew, and John who stood at the foot of the cross makes no mention of it? And there are many others.

Fascinating. This is an invitation to question and explore , and the answers are deeper understanding of the mysteries that surround Our Lord snd Savior.

One must believe for reason to ascend to faith without belief the mind is closed, and the mysteries of faith are considered impossible

 

[Gorgias]

Now you, with your self evident mastery of graduate and post graduate level of theological education (sorry I don’t know the $24 dollar word for that), see it as …. (again, I don’t know the $24 dollar word.)

I see it as an opportunity to correct the misunderstanding that there is truly a contradiction present. Although you might think that the “average Joe” can’t grasp this concept, I’m confident he can.

In fact, that’s precisely what I’m doing in this thread. The more you claim “contradiction”, the more I counter with “no… when properly understood, not a contradiction”.

 

[joeybaggz]

You know, I have this sneaking suspicion we both have the same understanding. And though this might sound like a criticism, I think where we don’t see eye to eye is in the original positions. I say, given the common understanding of the word, contradictions exist in the mind of the reader. In this “argument” I believe that needs to be the starting point, to state the dilemma. Your position starts with the understandings in rebuttal or exploration of the problem. I believe one needs to give deference to the factors surrounding the original question; that is in the mind of the average reader, contradictions exist. Then one can begin to refute the idea.
Personally, I don’t believe contradictions exist at all. Whenever one finds what they believe to be a contradiction, one needs to check their premises. That is where the error will be found.
As to your belief that the “average Joe” can grasp the concept; maybe you’re right but I would say the “average Joe” doesn’t take the time, believes those who say they have the “right” interpretation, and walks away from the faith for some “church” that preaches “Bible only” and they have all the answers.
I don’t think your argument is invalid, but I believe that some very basic conditions must be given credence before any substantive discussion can begin.

 

[guanophore]

How about this, how about listening to God and not the unbelievers, and false teachers/profits … errrr I mean prophets

This is a great idea! And how does one determine who is a “false teacher”?

Then if you do then there wouldnt be contradictions because it would make since instead of contradicting.

You are right in saying this. There are no contradictions between Scripture and Sacred Tradition. This is because they both come from the same Source.

The bible is 1300 pages long so its written out the way it is for a bigger purpose.

I am sorry to say that this statement makes no sense to me.

When you read the bible you cant just look at only those scriptures and make judgements on it. All those scriptures have a back story to them. Remember that a persons life is longer then 1300 pages(hint: a clue). Ill let you do the work from there.

It seems it would take a great deal of “work” to make any sense at all out of this!

 

[feed_me]

Again listen to God, he will tell you because a lot of people can be very cunning in their deception. Only he can p(name removed by moderator)oint that out where others will fail.

Its not suppose to make since for those that choose to reject God or for those whos names that are not written in the Book of Life. Thats why its written the way it is

Again listen to the Lord and he will make it clear for you.

 

[guanophore]

Again listen to God, he will tell you because a lot of people can be very cunning in their deception. Only he can p(name removed by moderator)oint that out where others will fail.

Catholics “listen to God” through the Church He founded, under the authority of those He appointed, the successors of the apostles.

Its not suppose to make since for those that choose to reject God or for those whos names that are not written in the Book of Life. Thats why its written the way it is

Scripture makes sufficient sense to all human beings to draw them to God’s grace. God desires that all men be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

Again listen to the Lord and he will make it clear for you.

Again we listen to the Lord through the Church which He founded, to be the pillar and ground of the Truth.

He promised that He would lead that Church into all Truth, and not allow her to fall into error. We can be confident, when we are in unity with the successor of Peter, that we are in Peter’s boat.

 

[feed_me]

Again even though they are called to be saved, they chose to reject him instead

Scripture is enethema to the wicked and unsaved

Again listen to the voice of the Lord. God communicates through more than just the church, There are many voices in the church but only one voice of the Lord.
John 10: 1-18

 

[adf417]

Again listen to God, he will tell you because a lot of people can be very cunning in their deception. Only he can p(name removed by moderator)oint that out where others will fail.

Its not suppose to make since for those that choose to reject God or for those whos names that are not written in the Book of Life. Thats why its written the way it is

Again listen to the Lord and he will make it clear for you.

This is exactly what my JW family have been telling me for a long time. It works for them too!

Peace!!!

 

[guanophore]

Again even though they are called to be saved, they chose to reject him instead

I think you are confused, feed_me. You are saying that all who are called will be saved, and those who are called will not reject God. If this is the case, then how can people reject God? Either He calls all, or He does not.

Scripture is enethema to the wicked and unsaved

If this were true, then hearing the word of God would not quicken the hearts of those who hear, so that they can be saved. God creates mankind with a desire to seek Him, and to know Him.

Again listen to the voice of the Lord. God communicates through more than just the church, There are many voices in the church but only one voice of the Lord.

The Church is the Bride of Christ. She is His Body, and He is her Head. When He speaks through the Church there is One Voice, One Faith, One Baptism.

Individuals in the church may have divergent voices, but the Church is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[feed_me]

Are you not understanding what in saying or are you just deliberatly trolling?

 

[guanophore]

Are you not understanding what in saying or are you just deliberatly trolling?

I may have missed your post where you explained how you know you are hearing the voice of the Lord.

 

[feed_me]

Then go reread it again.

 

[guanophore]

Its not suppose to make since for those that choose to reject God or for those whos names that are not written in the Book of Life. Thats why its written the way it is

Again listen to the Lord and he will make it clear for you.

Then go reread it again.

It seems like you are saying that, if I believe my name is written in the book of Life, and I believe the Scripture makes sense to me, then I have heard the voice of the Lord.

This is also what the Mormon’s teach. They say the person should read the book of Mormon and feel the “burning in the bosom” which will testify that what they read is from God.