Struggling with Marian Prayers

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Nick_Russell

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I abandoned my faith for roughly 7-8 years and came back to the Church in August of 2015. Since then I have been reading a lot of Theology and Apologetics. After all of the reading and praying I am having a hard time with Marian Prayers. My parish has a Mother of Perpetual Hope devotion after Mass on Tuesday nights, which I stay for but I just feel awkward saying the prayers. I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!
 
Nick_Russell said:
I abandoned my faith for roughly 7-8 years and came back to the Church in August of 2015. Since then I have been reading a lot of Theology and Apologetics. After all of the reading and praying I am having a hard time with Marian Prayers. My parish has a Mother of Perpetual Hope devotion after Mass on Tuesday nights, which I stay for but I just feel awkward saying the prayers. I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!
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Why do you feel guilty since you say you have no problems with the teachings on Mary? Perhaps there is something else…? Did you have a bad experience once? Our Blessed Mother is very powerful because of her humility with her son and for us…she loves us so immensely. I feel there may be more to why you are feeling “awkward”. I do think it is a very good thing that you are open about growing and understand more about your faith:) The Catholic faith is so beautiful - so deep and wide, one could never understand all!
I would suggest going to Adoration and specifically ask our Lord about this…I have known many people that get answers during their hour spent before the Blessed Sacrament! Tonight I will pray for you.
In His Love,
mlz
 
Nick_Russell said:
I abandoned my faith for roughly 7-8 years and came back to the Church in August of 2015. Since then I have been reading a lot of Theology and Apologetics. After all of the reading and praying I am having a hard time with Marian Prayers. My parish has a Mother of Perpetual Hope devotion after Mass on Tuesday nights, which I stay for but I just feel awkward saying the prayers. I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!
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First, welcome back.

I think it is very important to know and to be at peace with the fact that not everyone is comfortable with every devotion. I have known people who absolutely love the rosary and never tire of praying it while I have known very prayerful souls for whom the rosary would be the most tedious spiritual exercise they could undertake.

As a previous poster said, you are not obligated to Marian devotions. Not everyone will develop a strong devotion to the Blessed Virgin. Thanks be to God, you do not have issues in giving the assent of faith to the Marian dogmas and that is what is fundamental.

It is also important to be patient and to give yourself time. You have only been back for five months. Relationships with people, whether that person is on earth or is in heaven, can take a very long to grow into something real and significant.

Since you manifest a joy in reading theology, I would recommend to you a text I used when I was a professor of Mariology back in my teaching days. “Mary and the Fathers of the Church : The Blessed Virgin Mary in Patristic Thought,” since you say that you would to explore this subject further. It is by the very wonderful Father Luigi Gambero who, sadly for us but happily for him, finished his earthly pilgrimage about three years ago now and I trust is now with the Blessed Virgin, about whom he wrote so well and so eloquently.

The book does present theological concepts and it is not a light read but I think it is nevertheless imminently readable and readily comprehensible, even if you have not studied philosophy or theology. It begins with the Apostolic Fathers (i.e. the Sub-apostolic Church) and takes you to the eighth century. It explores the evolution of Marian devotion in the early Church and provides you the opportunity to read primary source texts. The mystery of the Theotokos for the Fathers of the Church could only be understood in the light and reflection of Her Divine Son. By reading the book, you will also, by necessity, work through aspects of Patristic Christology.

In this way, you have the opportunity to see Mary through the eyes of the early Church and come to know her as they did. The patristic concept of Mary as the New Eve, for example, was of great import to Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman in his journey to the Church of Rome. I don’t know what you have read but I think you might find this text more useful than the pious works of Marian devotion that may be of less benefit to you.

Marian devotion in the Church – East and West – takes many forms and expressions. Perhaps the prayers you encountered are of a style not suited to you. Obviously, I do not know the particular devotions your parish employs…but I have more than a passing acquaintance with the devotions used publicly in honor of Our Mother of Perpetual Help and there are certain ones, popularly in use, where the prayers’ compositions could easily not accord with the sensibilities of various people. Perhaps I presume too much to think that might be the issue you confront.

In any event, this book may help you to find something more to your taste and, at least, will help you to better understand the thought of Mary in the Early Church, which remains perennially valid, informative, and important. God bless you.
 
Elizium23 said:
Marian devotion is a required component of being Catholic.
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Believing the doctrines about Mary - yes. But devotions? I don’t think so.

Thanks, Don Ruggero, for your much more complete answer. We posted at the same time!
 
Nick_Russell said:
I abandoned my faith for roughly 7-8 years and came back to the Church in August of 2015. Since then I have been reading a lot of Theology and Apologetics. After all of the reading and praying I am having a hard time with Marian Prayers. My parish has a Mother of Perpetual Hope devotion after Mass on Tuesday nights, which I stay for but I just feel awkward saying the prayers. I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!
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Mary is a gift to us from Jesus on the cross crucified. He gave her to us as Our Virgin Mother and us to her as her children. There is no love and honor you can give to her that does not also go back to Jesus.
 
I agree with Don and Bonnie. just remember that Mary is, (as a Jewish convert buddy of mine always says) “a perfect little Jewish Mom” and she worries over us.

She is also the Queen Mother of the Messianic King and therefore is in a very unique position of intercession. Wanna get a close look at that role? Look at the wedding feast in Cana in John 2.
[1] On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; [2] Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples. [3] When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”***See here’s that intercession with her Son the king right there. 🙂

***[4] And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” ***Okay, notice that Jesus tells her that it’s not his time to begin doing ministerial miracles yet, so watch carefully what happens.

***[5] His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” ***Okay, this is very important because this is the first place that Mary speaks to us all and the very same essential message she has given in her every apparition. This is what she always says to all of us.

Now, take note of what Jesus does even though He’s just stated that His “hour has not yet come”.
[6] Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. [7] Jesus said to them, "Fill the jars with water." And they filled them up to the brim. [8] He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it. Okay…it wasn’t His time yet, but at the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, His Mother Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ intervenes…actually beginning His public ministry early.

The rest, as they say, is history…

Based on all this, I have no problem with Marian prayers and devotions…in fact she was instrumental in my return to our most holy faith after many years away. (See My Testimony)
I ask Mary to help me love her son the way she does.🙂
 
A number of good answers posted so far above.

Just a couple reflections here:
  1. When I was investigating Catholicism, Marian prayer seemed strange. However, I “just did it,” trusting that God would not have let the Church both East and West be in error over it for millenia, and it gradually got easier and easier, to the point where it is now just natural. See Dr. Scott Hahn’s anecdote about trying the Rosary for the first time.
  2. Marian devotion is part of the Catholic “air” that we “breathe,” so to speak. It is woven into the Church’s liturgical and devotional life, the lives and writings of the saints, the daily practice of the People of God for centuries upon centuries. As such it can be seen as God’s gift to His church. To reject that gift and try to be in the Church but reject her natural way of living and praying (I’m not talking about any specific devotion or cultural manifestation since those can vary and be or not be according to one’s taste) seems odd to me. Again, we also share that with Eastern Christianity. It wasn’t really until the reformation that Marian devotion was violently excised from the lives of large numbers of Christians.
 
You know I’m very close to my mother so maybe that’s why it’s not hard for me to do. I have a friend that is now anti-catholic that was going to come back to the church but abandon it completely and that happens but when I appeal to her because I know she used to pray the rosary and she loved it I told her to pray the rosary. It took awhile for me to get used to but I do it everyday now. I feel like you would be really lost during a Byzantine liturgy. Their hyperdulia really shows. Honestly at first I was a little uncomfortable with it until I realised what it was. The truth is there are going to be some things that you are on comfortable with but this should not be one of them. You’re not required to pray the rosary for instance as a Catholic but why wouldn’t you want to (at least for us that are canonically Latin)? Look I don’t know what trouble you are having I have found myself having to defend the perpetual virginity and even nowadays the virgin birth quite often. I think getting right into the Marian devotions might not be a good idea I think it would be a good idea to read why we do them first. The cool thing is is that you have come to the right place and while I might not be able to give you a good book on the topic I know plenty of people who can and they are on this very forum. Like ok I think starting off with St Louis Marie de Montfort would not be a good idea I think you would have to work your way into him but he has really good explanations for Marian devotion
 
Bonnie said:
Believing the doctrines about Mary - yes. But devotions? I don’t think so.
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CCC 971 “All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.”515 The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs… This very special devotion… differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.”516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517 (1172, 2678)

Marialis Cultus

56 Venerable Brothers, as we come to the end of this our Apostolic Exhortation we wish to sum up and emphasize the theological value of devotion to the Blessed Virgin and to recall briefly its pastoral effectiveness for renewing the Christian way of life.

The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is an intrinsic element of Christian worship. The honor which the Church has always and everywhere shown to the Mother of the Lord, from the blessing with which Elizabeth greeted Mary (cf. Lk. 1:42-45) right up to the expressions of praise and petition used today, is a very strong witness to the Church’s norm of prayer and an invitation to become more deeply conscious of her norm of faith. And the converse is likewise true. The Church’s norm of faith requires that her norm of prayer should everywhere blossom forth with regard to the Mother of Christ. Such devotion to the Blessed Virgin is firmly rooted in the revealed word and has solid dogmatic foundations. It is based on the singular dignity of Mary, “Mother of the Son of God, and therefore beloved daughter of the Father and Temple of the Holy Spirit-Mary, who, because of this extraordinary grace, is far greater than any other creature on earth or in heaven.”(119) This devotion takes into account the part she played at decisive moments in the history of the salvation which her Son accomplished, and her holiness, already full at her Immaculate Conception yet increasing all the time as she obeyed the will of the Father and accepted the path of suffering (cf. Lk. 2:34-35, 41-52; Jn. 19:25-27), growing constantly in faith, hope and charity. Devotion to Mary recalls too her mission and the special position she holds within the People of God, of which she is the preeminent member, a shining example and the loving Mother; it recalls her unceasing and efficacious intercession which, although she is assumed into heaven, draws her close to those who ask her help, including those who do not realize that they are her children. It recalls Mary’s glory which ennobles the whole of mankind, as the outstanding phrase of Dante recalls: “You have so ennobled human nature that its very Creator did not disdain to share in it.”(120) Mary, in fact, is one of our race, a true daughter of Eve-though free of that mother’s sin-and truly our sister, who as a poor and humble woman fully shared our lot.

We would add further that devotion to the Blessed Virgin finds its ultimate justification in the unfathomable and free will of God who, being eternal and divine charity (cf. 1 Jn. 4:7-8, 16), accomplishes all things according to a loving design. He loved her and did great things for her (cf. Lk. 1:49). He loved her for His own sake, and He loved her for our sake, too; He gave her to Himself and He gave her also to us.
 
Nick_Russell said:
I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!
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The Eight conditions of Prayer
  1. The object of our prayer must be lawful.
  2. Our prayer must be humble.
  3. Our prayer must be fervent.
  4. Our prayer must be followed by amendment of life.
  5. Our prayer must be united with forgiveness of injuries.
  6. Our prayer must be united with good works.
  7. Our prayer must be confident.
  8. Our prayer must be persevering.
 
TimothyH said:
Except when they are part of the Mass.

-Tim-
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The liturgical cult of the Blessed Virgin, which is preferred by the Church over all other expressions of devotion to the Blessed Virgin, is marked by prayers addressed to God about the Theotokos…not to the Theotokos, with the exception of a few antiphons and a few invocations relative to the Liturgy of the Hours.

There are no occasions where one is obliged to participate in the various expressions of Marian devotions the original poster discussed. Certainly the faithful are free to do so…and may pick among many different types of devotion. But they are not obliged to choose any – and particularly one with which they are not comfortable.

A very well presented expression of the Church’s teaching about the Blessed Virgin can be found in Chapter 8 of Vatican II’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
 
Bonnie said:
What Marian prayers are a part of the Mass? I know Mary is mentioned several times, but I can’t recall any prayers directed to her.
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The opening prayer, the offertory prayers and prayer over the gifts, preface of the Eucharistic Prayer, the Eucharistic prayer itself, and prayer after Communion are, invariably, addressed to God and typically directed explicitly to the Father. There are occasions, Corpus Domini and the Morning Mass of Christmas Eve notably, where the opening prayer is addressed to the Incarnate Son. The penitential rite may be addressed to the Incarnate Son and the prayers preparatory for Communion are, of course, also addressed to Him.

So…as far as direct address of Mary in the liturgy, the place where it occurs most prominently, actually, is in the Liturgy of the Hours. The hymn that concludes Compline each night is Marian. Often it’s the Hail Holy Queen.

But otherwise, there are very few instances in the liturgy and above all in the Mass where is she is addressed directly…for example the Communion antiphon for the Immaculate Conception is “Glorious things are spoken of you, O Mary, for from you arose the Sun of Justice, Christ our God” or the entrance antiphon of the Vigil Mass for the Assumption: “Glorious things are spoken of you, O Mary, who today were exalted above the choirs of angels into eternal triumph with Christ”. She is mentioned in the first form of the penitential rite, may be mentioned in the third form of that same rite, in both forms of the Creed, and she is always mentioned, by name, in the Eucharistic prayer as an expression of the singular veneration that Church expresses for her.

Of course, a priest or music director might choose to populate a Mass on a Feast of Our Lady with hymns addressed to her…but that is a bit of a different matter.

The Mother of Jesus is present in the lives of the Church and the individual members. The extent to which the disciples of Jesus invoke her and her intercession is, beyond a certain threshold, left to their own preference and private devotions.
 
Bonnie said:
What Marian prayers are a part of the Mass? I know Mary is mentioned several times, but I can’t recall any prayers directed to her.
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I’m not familiar enough with the Mass to know if there are any, but in the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, but in the Byzantine Rite, our veneration of Mary is very liturgical. We pray at every Divine Liturgy (except on prescribed occasions, when it is replaced with an other Marian hymn)
It is truly proper to glorify you, O Theotokos, the ever-blessed, immaculate and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim; who, a virgin, gave birth to God the Word; you, truly the Theotokos we magnify.
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Often also prayed is:
Steadfast Protectress of Christians, unshakable Mediatrix before the Creator, do not despise the prayerful voices of sinners; but in your goodness hurry to assist those who faithfully cry out to you. Hasten to intercede and heed our supplication, interceding always, Theotokos, in behalf of those who honor you.
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Nick_Russell said:
I abandoned my faith for roughly 7-8 years and came back to the Church in August of 2015. Since then I have been reading a lot of Theology and Apologetics. After all of the reading and praying I am having a hard time with Marian Prayers. My parish has a Mother of Perpetual Hope devotion after Mass on Tuesday nights, which I stay for but I just feel awkward saying the prayers. I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!
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If you’re comfortable discussing it, what’s the nature of what “feels like a guilty conscience”? I can imagine a few possibilities about what you mean.

Do you have similar feelings with different Marian prayers or devotions, such as the Hail Mary, the Rosary, the Angelus, the Salve Regina (“Hail, Holy Queen”), the Memorare?
 
Elizium23 said:
Marian devotion is a required component of being Catholic.
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The only devotion to Mary that is required is attendance at those masses that commemorate her (Assumption, Immaculate Conception, and the Solemnity of Mary). Marian devotion may be very useful, but it is not required. Christ alone is sufficient.
 
Kevin12 said:
The only devotion to Mary that is required is attendance at those masses that commemorate her (Assumption, Immaculate Conception, and the Solemnity of Mary). Marian devotion may be very useful, but it is not required. Christ alone is sufficient.
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That may be technically true, but smacks to me of a minimalism that is simply not part of the Catholic heritage and experience that has been lived in the Church since its inception and has been preserved both East and West.
 
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