Struggling with Marian Prayers

[otjm]

Mary is Mediatrix between God and mankind. Today, Sunday, along with Wednesday, we pray the Rosary and recite the Glorious mysteries. The fifth mystery is the Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth. God is who made her so. Are you saying that He made a mistake?

That question makes about as much sense as saying that if one does not have a devotion to Mary, one cannot receive any of those graces.

The OP is struggling with a devotion to Mary. Responses which are instructive on that matter might be a bit more focused.

 

[Elizium23]

Scott Hahn:

Thank God that we don’t have to undermine or take away anything from the glory of Christ. Rather we behold the ultimate masterpiece of Christ in Mary. And like any artist, you know if an artist takes you into his room with all the masterpieces hanging on the wall and you could stand there staring at him saying, “Oh my. You are such a great artist. You’re fantastic.” He’d say, “Hey, look at my work.” He wouldn’t feel offended if you went over to his greatest work and said, “This is awesome. Wow! Thank you!” He would say, “Hey, come on. Check out my pants and shirt. Look at my face.” No. Christ wants us to fall head over heels in love with his Mother because that’s his masterpiece. Exhibit A, that he can really accomplish salvation. She was saved from sin. That’s why she is sinless. Because some people are saved from sin and other people are saved from sin and she was saved by Christ from sin from beginning to end. It’s the work of Christ and we extol and praise our eldest brother, our Lord and Master and our Redeemer as we love and as we follow his Mother and do whatever he tells you.

 

[Elizium23]

Jimmy Akin:

But this passage teaches us something more than just that Christ instituted a special relationship between John and Mary. Bible scholars point out that John’s account of the passion and death of Christ has a very unusual, seven-fold structure. Right at the center of this seven-fold structure is the story of Christ telling John to regard Mary as his mother. As a result, something very special and very symbolic is going on here. This is something even very liberal, Protestant theologians acknowledge, and they certainly have no desire to come to conservative, Catholic conclusions about Mary. But even they recognize that something very strange and very wonderful and very symbolic is going on in this passage, they simply are not sure what it is.

The Catholic, however, is sure. The historical Catholic teaching is that in this passage St. John—the disciple whom Jesus loved—is made a symbol for every disciple, for every Christian, and that as a result every Christian is to regard Mary as his mother. This is something we could derive on other grounds. Since we are all members of Christ, and since Mary is Christ’s mother, Mary is also our mother through Christ.

 

[tp3192000]

No, Christ is. 1 Timothy 2:5. Where on earth do you get this notion?

Jn 19:26. When Jesus gifted us to his mother, she became Mediatrix.

Are you really a Catholic?

 

[tp3192000]

I have no problems with the teachings on Mary, It just feels like a guilty conscience when i say the prayers. I continue to pray for understanding and growth about this subject so I thought I would reach out to people on the forums.

Thanks for the help!

Mary is a special gift to us from Jesus dying on the cross. On the cross, Jesus gave us forgiveness for our sins and salvation. He was on the cross suffering for three hours and made only seven short remarks. One was the gifting of us to Mary as her children and the gifting of his mother to us.
She is Our Virgin Mother. We should love her and honor her as such. How insulting is it to refuse a gift?
I am sure you will be guided to the right path as long as you continue to pray.

 

[tp3192000]

The OP is struggling with a devotion to Mary. Responses which are instructive on that matter might be a bit more focused.

Thank you for this reminder.

 

[Chatter163]

Mediatrix of all graces?! Really?! What a bizarre title. Its funny I could have sworn the grace of God is dispensed to mankind through the power of the Holy Spirit. God is not Father, Son and Mary, he is Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

I think the Church needs to honestly cool down when it comes to Marian devotion. Let’s get our focus back to the Holy Trinity shall we?

Nothing bizarre about it. Sorry if you are unfamiliar with it, but there is a long history behind it.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

catholic.com/quickquestions/isnt-calling-mary-the-mediatrix-of-all-graces-contrary-to-the-doctrine-that-jesus-is-

taylormarshall.com/2011/05/is-mary-mediatrix-of-all-graces.html

 

[JM3]

The Fifth Marian Dogma has not been defined, nor should it be. The sense in which Mary can be called Co-Redemptrix, while there may be some valid sense in which is could be used, is so limited that it can apply to all the saints; likewise, she has not, to the best my knowledge, been spoken of as the Mediatrix of All Graces even in the quote by a former Pope, which one escapes me, that calls her Mediatrix.

You have made a completely incorrect inference. It does not imply an disrespect to the Virgin to say that devotion to her is not necessary—necessity implies that there was something lacking in God to achieve our salvation on His own. St. Dismas, I imagine, didn’t even know who Mary was. He entered heaven because Christ alone is sufficient. If Marian devotion was necessary in the true meaning of the word, he could not have been saved.

Mediatrix of all graces?! Really?! What a bizarre title. Its funny I could have sworn the grace of God is dispensed to mankind through the power of the Holy Spirit. God is not Father, Son and Mary, he is Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

I think the Church needs to honestly cool down when it comes to Marian devotion. Let’s get our focus back to the Holy Trinity shall we?

w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_05091895_adiutricem.html

Mary, Help of Christians

1. The power thus put into her hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help as though impelled by an instinct of nature, confidently sharing with her their future hopes and past achievements, their sorrows and joys, commending themselves like children to the care of a bountiful mother. How rightly, too, has every nation and every liturgy without exception acclaimed her great renown, which has grown greater with the voice of each succeeding century. Among her many other titles we find her hailed as “our Lady, our Mediatrix,”(3) “the Reparatrix of the whole world,”(4) “the Dispenser of all heavenly gifts.”(5)

campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/bvmasses_seasons/ordinarytimemasses.html

ORDINARY TIME: THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, MOTHER AND MEDIATRIX OF GRACE

In 1921 Pope Benedict XV (d. 1922), at the request of Cardinal Désiré Joseph Mercier (d. 1926), granted the whole of Belgium an Office and Mass of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces, to be celebrated on May 31.

In 1971 the Congregation for Divine Worship approved a Mass of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother and Mediatrix of Grace. This Mass, faithfully following the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, commemorates both the maternal role of Our Lady and her function of mediation. Currently this Mass is celebrated in many places on May 8…

Source: Excerpts from the introductory commentary to the Mass, Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Volume 1, Sacramentary, Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1992, p. 222.]

“Mediatrix” seems to imply that shes a necessary intermediary standing between us and the grace of God. This is nonsense. Nowhere is this found in scripture and to believe this would come close to idolatry, putting Mary nearly equal to God.

The grace of God comes to us through the power of the Holy Spirit, and through the sacraments instituted by Christ to be divine channels of grace. Mary is the most holy of the saints, yes, but she is not the intermediary of all grace, that’s absurd.

Quite frankly I see a big problem with some Catholics elevating Mary in such a way that it smacks of pagan goddess worship.

Luke 1:41 - And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost

Luke 1:44 - For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

 

[Bonnie]

Are you really a Catholic?

I’m so glad I don’t know you, or others who have been unkind. Obviously you haven’t read all the posts. I don’t hate Mary, I recognize her as the Mother of Jesus, I know she has a special place in our theology, but she is NOT a goddess, nor do I have to have a “devotion” to her to be Catholic.

I cringe whenever I’m part of a group that is praying Hail, Holy Queen - “our life, our sweetness and our hope.” Really? That is so over the top, more what a hopeless romantic would say to a lover than to the Mother of our Savior. She suffered, yes, but she didn’t die for me. Jesus did.

If some of the things said here were said to me by people at my parish, I would have a hard time going back.

I would never ask someone I didn’t agree with if he was a “real” Catholic.

Btw - when I became a Catholic I told the priest who was instructing me that I had some trouble with Mary. He asked me if I could trust the Church on that issue. I said yes, he said no problem. And the Church does not demand that I say particular prayers to Mary or have a special devotion to her.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I have been Catholic my whole life, albeit, not a practicing one for many of those years and feel exactly the same way! God bless that priest!

I’m so glad I don’t know you, or others who have been unkind. O****bviously you haven’t read all the posts. I don’t hate Mary, I recognize her as the Mother of Jesus, I know she has a special place in our theology, but she is NOT a goddess, nor do I have to have a “devotion” to her to be Catholic.

I cringe whenever I’m part of a group that is praying Hail, Holy Queen - “our life, our sweetness and our hope.” Really? That is so over the top, more what a hopeless romantic would say to a lover than to the Mother of our Savior. She suffered, yes, but she didn’t die for me. Jesus did.

If some of the things said here were said to me by people at my parish, I would have a hard time going back.

I would never ask someone I didn’t agree with if he was a “real” Catholic.

Btw - when I became a Catholic I told the priest who was instructing me that I had some trouble with Mary. He asked me if I could trust the Church on that issue. I said yes, he said no problem. And the Church does not demand that I say particular prayers to Mary or have a special devotion to her.

 

[JM3]

I’m so glad I don’t know you, or others who have been unkind. Obviously you haven’t read all the posts. I don’t hate Mary, I recognize her as the Mother of Jesus, I know she has a special place in our theology, but she is NOT a goddess, nor do I have to have a “devotion” to her to be Catholic.

I cringe whenever I’m part of a group that is praying Hail, Holy Queen - “our life, our sweetness and our hope.” Really? That is so over the top, more what a hopeless romantic would say to a lover than to the Mother of our Savior. She suffered, yes, but she didn’t die for me. Jesus did.

If some of the things said here were said to me by people at my parish, I would have a hard time going back.

I would never ask someone I didn’t agree with if he was a “real” Catholic.

Btw - when I became a Catholic I told the priest who was instructing me that I had some trouble with Mary. He asked me if I could trust the Church on that issue. I said yes, he said no problem. And the Church does not demand that I say particular prayers to Mary or have a special devotion to her.

It may help to read this.

 

[godisgood77]

That may be technically true, but smacks to me of a minimalism that is simply not part of the Catholic heritage and experience that has been lived in the Church since its inception and has been preserved both East and West.

It’s true… A Marian devotion that is appealing to one Catholic may be strange and awkward to another… That’s how Blessed John Henry Newman thought of it. Just becaus you consider it minimal does not make it so. If you attend Mass give your ascent to the dogmas about Mary, you have a Marian devotion.

I highly recommend the book ‘the question of Mary’ by Rene laurentin… By far the greatest book I have read on the subject

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I’m so glad I don’t know you, or others who have been unkind. Obviously you haven’t read all the posts. I don’t hate Mary, I recognize her as the Mother of Jesus, I know she has a special place in our theology, but she is NOT a goddess, nor do I have to have a “devotion” to her to be Catholic.

I cringe whenever I’m part of a group that is praying Hail, Holy Queen - “our life, our sweetness and our hope.” Really? That is so over the top, more what a hopeless romantic would say to a lover than to the Mother of our Savior. She suffered, yes, but she didn’t die for me. Jesus did.

If some of the things said here were said to me by people at my parish, I would have a hard time going back.

I would never ask someone I didn’t agree with if he was a “real” Catholic.

Btw - when I became a Catholic I told the priest who was instructing me that I had some trouble with Mary. He asked me if I could trust the Church on that issue. I said yes, he said no problem. And the Church does not demand that I say particular prayers to Mary or have a special devotion to her.

Thank you for posting this, Bonnie. For me, personally, my devotion to the Mother of Jesus has been a tremendous aspect of my life. However…As a priest, one meets souls in many places in their journey and on a variety of paths for making that journey – and it is their journey. Too many people seem to have one or a few concepts of what ought to be and yet are oblivious to the tremendous variety that exists in Catholic spirituality.

I have seen this regarding the role of the Blessed Virgin in a person’s devotional life, as with many other things. Some people almost instinctively turn to the Saints for intercession…some rarely if ever do. For most I have ministered to, the Western expressions of Catholicism were preferred while for others, they discovered they were much more fulfilled with the liturgy of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Some are most attuned with the Catholic Charismatic Movement in terms of their spirituality while others are more enriched by the Traditional Latin Mass. Some have a particular Marian piety and others do not.

Beyond the essentials, there is tremendous latitude when it comes to living Catholicism.

It is not the business of anyone to set unnecessary obstacles in the path of someone else and I am always shocked when people try to do that. If someone does not find a particular private devotion to their taste, they should not do it. That’s very simple. One can live as a devout Catholic and never pray the rosary or even own one.

 

[drforjc]

It’s true… A Marian devotion that is appealing to one Catholic may be strange and awkward to another… That’s how Blessed John Henry Newman thought of it. Just becaus you consider it minimal does not make it so. If you attend Mass give your ascent to the dogmas about Mary, you have a Marian devotion.

I highly recommend the book ‘the question of Mary’ by Rene laurentin… By far the greatest book I have read on the subject

“I only assent to the dogmas and really have nothing more to do with her” is minimalism pure and simple, given the place of Mary in the lives of the saints, doctors, popes, spiritual writers, and the laity through the centuries.

Again, as I said, I’m not referring to any specific devotion (I think I am repeating that for at least a third time), but rather to the “atmosphere” of Catholic spirituality.

There may be varying “levels” or degrees of zeal or fervency as well as different forms of devotion in different cultures, in different eras, and in different individuals, but certainly her presence is a pervasive element in Catholic life looked at through the ages.

 

[tp3192000]

I’m so glad I don’t know you, or others who have been unkind. Obviously you haven’t read all the posts.
I would never ask someone I didn’t agree with if he was a “real” Catholic.

I apologize for offending you and others for my post. It was meant as a question and not an insult as the poster I was responding to had Catholic listed as faith, but gave an argument that is similar to protestant arguments I have seen here.
For me, growing up with Catholicism, having May processions and honoring our Blessed Mother, it is strange to see that any Catholic could not have a deep devotion to her as well. Our Mother Mary is not divine to me, and I do not say “Hail, holy Queen”, but sing it.

 

[Elizium23]

Some people have gone beyond claiming that Marian devotion is an optional part of Christianity and even claim that one does not have to subscribe to the Communion of Saints to be a Catholic in good standing. It flabbergasts me that these things should be considered as “add-ons” or superfluous to any Catholic seeking personal holiness and glorification of God.

It would help if those who are suggesting these things would answer my questions. I have more. What if a cleric or religious, bound as they are to the recitation of the Divine Office, should be required to honor Mary? Can he get permission from his superior to omit such prayers that offend him? Can a priest opt-out of celebrating each and every Marian feast day? Surely he is at least compelled to attend days of precept. I am trying to wrap my mind around the idea of a devout and orthodox Sister or Nun who is indifferent to the Blessed Mother. Surely it limits her choice of religious institutes when half of them are even named in honor of Mary.

It stretches the imagination how one can celebrate Christmas and not honor Mary in such a way. Where can I find a catalog of creches that I can order without the Blessed Virgin Mary gumming up the works? Or for those who entirely reject the Communion of Saints, Joseph would also be a stumbling block. Imagine Jesus lying there in His manger, soaking up all the prayers sent directly to Him, wondering where His foster-father and blessed mother have got off to? For fun, let’s make a list of Christmas Carols that need to be bowdlerized so as not to include Mary. Silent Night gets fairly silent.

Can I get a dispensation from attending Masses at which Mary will be honored? Perhaps I should just move my lips when a Marian hymn is commenced, or, shudder–the Confiteor must be prayed.

Perhaps Don Ruggero was unclear and meant that no particular private devotion or prayer is prescribed by the Church. That would be an orthodox understanding of his words. Surely he does not mean that indifference or rejection of Mary is part of a healthy prayer life.

 

[Bonnie]

Perhaps Don Ruggero was unclear and meant that no particular private devotion or prayer is prescribed by the Church. That would be an orthodox understanding of his words. Surely he does not mean that indifference or rejection of Mary is part of a healthy prayer life.

Perhaps you should re-read what he & others have said - NO ONE has suggested a rejection of doctrine.

 

[ALoveDivine]

Ive just never felt a need to pray for Mary or the Saints to intercede for me, I don’t pray to them, I just pray directly to the Lord Jesus. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. If we can all pray directly to the Lord, which we can, they what’s the point of praying to the saints? We can honor them and revere them for what God has done in their lives, but praying to them? I’ve just never felt the need…

 

[godisgood77]

“I only assent to the dogmas and really have nothing more to do with her” is minimalism pure and simple, given the place of Mary in the lives of the saints, doctors, popes, spiritual writers, and the laity through the centuries.

Again, as I said, I’m not referring to any specific devotion (I think I am repeating that for at least a third time), but rather to the “atmosphere” of Catholic spirituality.

There may be varying “levels” or degrees of zeal or fervency as well as different forms of devotion in different cultures, in different eras, and in different individuals, but certainly her presence is a pervasive element in Catholic life looked at through the ages.

I agree that doing the absolute minimum is minimalism. I don’t know that anyone is advocating for that… just stating the fact (which you acknowledge as technically true) that in the Catholic religion, devotional practices are personal and subjective.

I wonder what you would consider ‘maximalism’? Would you acknowledge the existence of maximalist tendencies in Catholicism? Further, would you argue that the tendency towards maximalism is corrupt with the same fervor that you are against minimalism?

Again, I would highly recommend the book ‘The Question of Mary’ by Fr Rene Laurentin, a world leading mariologist. The book carries and imprimatur and a nihil obstat… This book contains everything you need to know as a Catholic about Marian devotion and the tendency towards corruption of many Catholics…both to the maximalist side and the minimalist.

I model my Marian devotion after that of Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman - arguably the greatest Catholic mind of a century. He knew that the Church recommends Marian devotion HIGHLY, but he also knew that the Church does not impose any particular devotional practice on Catholics.

 

[godisgood77]

“I only assent to the dogmas and really have nothing more to do with her” is minimalism pure and simple, given the place of Mary in the lives of the saints, doctors, popes, spiritual writers, and the laity through the centuries.

Again, as I said, I’m not referring to any specific devotion (I think I am repeating that for at least a third time), but rather to the “atmosphere” of Catholic spirituality.

There may be varying “levels” or degrees of zeal or fervency as well as different forms of devotion in different cultures, in different eras, and in different individuals, but certainly her presence is a pervasive element in Catholic life looked at through the ages.

I agree that doing the absolute minimum is minimalism. I don’t know that anyone is advocating for that… just stating the fact (which you acknowledge as technically true) that in the Catholic religion, devotional practices are personal and subjective.

I wonder what you would consider ‘maximalism’? Would you acknowledge the existence of maximalist tendencies in Catholicism? Further, would you argue that the tendency towards maximalism is corrupt with the same fervor that you are against minimalism?

Again, I would highly recommend the book ‘The Question of Mary’ by Fr Rene Laurentin, a world leading mariologist. The book carries and imprimatur and a nihil obstat… This book contains everything you need to know as a Catholic about Marian devotion and the tendency towards corruption of many Catholics…both to the maximalist side and the minimalist.

I model my Marian devotion after that of Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman - arguably the greatest Catholic mind of a century. He knew that the Church recommends Marian devotion HIGHLY, but he also knew that the Church does not impose any particular devotional practice on Catholics.