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buffalo
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buffalo
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I am not buying it. Most victims were friends or relatives. Of all these available they only had access to post pubescent boys? The facts show post pubescent boys to be targets.All of the scientific studies on peodophilia and hebephelia show that the majority of perptrators have no gender preference. Child molestation is more often than not simply a crime of opportunity as the majority of perpetrators dont give a thought to gender.
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buffalo
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Expert: homosexuality clearly a factor in new priest abuse data
NEW YORK, May 20, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A leading authority on the clerical sex abuse crisis has criticized those who conclude that new data has ruled out homosexuality as a significant cause in the scandal - even though the vast majority of priest abuse was perpetrated against adolescent males.
Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a top psychiatrist and expert in handling sexually abusive priests, says criminologists “crossed a line” by pronouncing on the psychological causes behind the data released May 18.
**“Analysis of the research demonstrates clearly that the major cause of the crisis was the homosexual abuse of males,” **said Fitzgibbons in an interview with the Catholic News Agency.
catholicnewsagency.com/news/critics-say-new-study-misses-real-reasons-for-priest-abuse-crisis/
NEW YORK, May 20, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A leading authority on the clerical sex abuse crisis has criticized those who conclude that new data has ruled out homosexuality as a significant cause in the scandal - even though the vast majority of priest abuse was perpetrated against adolescent males.
Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a top psychiatrist and expert in handling sexually abusive priests, says criminologists “crossed a line” by pronouncing on the psychological causes behind the data released May 18.
**“Analysis of the research demonstrates clearly that the major cause of the crisis was the homosexual abuse of males,” **said Fitzgibbons in an interview with the Catholic News Agency.
catholicnewsagency.com/news/critics-say-new-study-misses-real-reasons-for-priest-abuse-crisis/
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EmperorNapoleon
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psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.htmlSources?
There are plenty of citations here.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
This source provides an excellent summary and plenty of citations and references.Sources?
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valentino
Guest
I just heard the report from the dr.psycholigist who was in the study.His views were that these priests were homosexuals not pedophiles.They’d had homosexual encounters in the seminaries.the few who had molested children under 12 were few and the larger % came from teenage boys.He said the sexual revolution had a big part to play since having sex was no longer looked down upon as it had been previously.80-85% of the molestations were with boys in their teens not children.The Catholic view in general became lax towards its attitude towards premarital sex and sex in general and the restraints which were in place previously by the Church seemed to be loosened giving the priests more opportunities to act out.In earlier times these homosexual priests would not have acted out and they would have carried out their ministries without any abuses.The study says that there has always been a no.of homosexual priests but publicly people were not aware(or as aware)as they are now.And lastly,the molestion of children was due to availability not pedophilia.
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buffalo
Guest
Countered:This source provides an excellent summary and plenty of citations and references.
Child Molestation and Homosexuality
The Scientific Evidence
Three kinds of scientific evidence point to the proportion of homosexual molestation: 1) survey reports of molestation in the general population, 2) surveys of those caught and convicted of molestation, and 3) what homosexuals themselves have reported. These three lines of evidence suggest that the 1%-to-3% of adults who practice homosexuality (3) account for between a fifth and a third of all child molestation.
…**Surveys of Those Convicted **
Drs Freund and Heasman (9) of the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two sizeable studies and calculated that 34% and 32% of the offenders against children were homosexual. In cases they had personally handled, homosexuals accounted for 36% of their 457 pedophiles.
Dr. Adrian Copeland, a psychiatrist who works with sexual offenders at the Peters Institute in Philadelphia, said (10) that, from his experience, pedophiles tend to be homosexual and “40% to 45%” of child molesters have had “significant homosexual experiences.”
Dr. C. H. McGaghy (11) estimated that “homosexual offenders probably constitute about half of molesters who work with children.” Other studies are similar:
– Of the approximately 100 child molesters in 1991 at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third bisexual and a third homosexual in orientation. (12)
– A state-wide survey of 161 Vermont adolescents who committed sex offenses in 1984 found that 35 (22%) were homosexual. (13)
– Of the 91 molesters of non-related children at Canada’s Kingston Sexual Behaviour Clinic from 1978-1984, 38 (42%) engaged in homosexuality. (14)
– Of 52 child molesters in Ottawa from 1983 to 1985, 31 (60%) were homosexual. (15)
–
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buffalo
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In England for 1973, 802 persons (8 females) were convicted of indecent assault on a male, and 3,006 (6 of them female) were convicted of indecent assault on a female (i.e., 21% were homosexual). 88% of male and about 70% of female victims were under age sixteen. (16)
Because of this pattern, Judge J. T. Rees concluded that “the male homosexual naturally seeks the company of the male adolescent, or of the young male adult, in preference to that of the fully-grown man. [In 1947] 986 persons were convicted of homosexual and unnatural offences. Of those, 257 were indictable offences involving 402 male victims…. The great majority of [whom]… were under the age of 16. Only 11%… were over 21.”
“[T]he problem of male homosexuality is in essence the problem of the corruption of youth by itself * and by its elders. [And thereby]… the creation… of new addicts ready to corrupt a still further generation of young men and boys in the future.” (17)
** What Homosexuals Admit**
The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of the gays and 2% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-yr-olds, and 28% of the gays and 1% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-yr-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older. (18)
In 1970 the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white gays in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21. (19)
In The Gay Report, 23% of the gays and 6% of the lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age. (20)
In France, 129 convicted gays (21)(average age 34 years) said they had had sexual contact with a total of 11,007 boys (an average of 85 different boys per man). Abel et al reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each. (22)
Summary
About a third of the reports of molestation by the populace have involved homosexuality. Likewise, between a fifth and a third of those who have been caught and/or convicted practiced homosexuality. Finally, a fifth to a third of surveyed gays admitted to child molestation. All-in-all, a rather consistent story.
…Conclusion
Not only is the gay rights movement upfront in its desire to legitimize sex with children, but whether indexed by population reports of molestation, pedophile convictions, or teacher-pupil assaults, there is a strong, disproportionate association between child molestation and homosexuality. Ann Landers’ claim that homosexuals molest children at no higher a rate than heterosexuals do is untrue. The assertion by gay leaders and the American Psychological Association that a homosexual is less likely than a heterosexual to molest children is patently false.*
Because of this pattern, Judge J. T. Rees concluded that “the male homosexual naturally seeks the company of the male adolescent, or of the young male adult, in preference to that of the fully-grown man. [In 1947] 986 persons were convicted of homosexual and unnatural offences. Of those, 257 were indictable offences involving 402 male victims…. The great majority of [whom]… were under the age of 16. Only 11%… were over 21.”
“[T]he problem of male homosexuality is in essence the problem of the corruption of youth by itself * and by its elders. [And thereby]… the creation… of new addicts ready to corrupt a still further generation of young men and boys in the future.” (17)
** What Homosexuals Admit**
The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of the gays and 2% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-yr-olds, and 28% of the gays and 1% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-yr-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older. (18)
In 1970 the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white gays in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21. (19)
In The Gay Report, 23% of the gays and 6% of the lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age. (20)
In France, 129 convicted gays (21)(average age 34 years) said they had had sexual contact with a total of 11,007 boys (an average of 85 different boys per man). Abel et al reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each. (22)
Summary
About a third of the reports of molestation by the populace have involved homosexuality. Likewise, between a fifth and a third of those who have been caught and/or convicted practiced homosexuality. Finally, a fifth to a third of surveyed gays admitted to child molestation. All-in-all, a rather consistent story.
…Conclusion
Not only is the gay rights movement upfront in its desire to legitimize sex with children, but whether indexed by population reports of molestation, pedophile convictions, or teacher-pupil assaults, there is a strong, disproportionate association between child molestation and homosexuality. Ann Landers’ claim that homosexuals molest children at no higher a rate than heterosexuals do is untrue. The assertion by gay leaders and the American Psychological Association that a homosexual is less likely than a heterosexual to molest children is patently false.*
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Countered:Countered:
"One individual has claimed to have data that prove homosexuals to be child molesters at a higher rate than heterosexuals. That person is Paul Cameron. As detailed elsewhere on this site, Cameron’s survey data are subject to so many methodological flaws as to be virtually meaningless. Even so, his assertions are sometimes quoted by antigay organizations in their attempts to link homosexuality with child sexual abuse.
In a 1985 article published in Psychological Reports, Cameron purported to review published data to answer the question, “Do those who commit homosexual acts disproportionately incorporate children into their sexual practices?” (p. 1227). He concluded that “at least one-third of the sexual attacks upon youth are homosexual” (p. 1228) and that “those who are bi- to homosexual are proportionately much more apt to molest youth” than are heterosexuals (p. 1231).
Cameron’s claims hinge on the fallacious assumption that all male-male molestations are committed by homosexuals. Moreover, a careful reading of Cameron’s paper reveals several false statements about the literature he claimed to have reviewed.
For example, he cited the Groth and Birnbaum (1978) study mentioned previously as evidencing a 3:2 ratio of “heterosexual” (i.e., female victim) to “homosexual” (i.e., male victim) molestations, and he noted that “54% of all the molestations in this study were performed by bisexual or homosexual practitioners” (p. 1231). However, Groth and Birnbaum reported that none of the men in their sample had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation, and that none of the 22 bisexual men were more attracted to adult males than to adult females. The “54%” statistic reported by Cameron doesn’t appear anywhere in the Groth and Birnbaum (1978) article, nor does Cameron explain its derivation.
It is also noteworthy that, although Cameron assumed that the perpetrators of male-male molestations were all homosexual, he assumed that not all male-female molestations were committed by heterosexuals. He incorporated a “bisexual correction” into his data manipulations to increase further his estimate of the risk posed to children by homosexual/bisexual men.
In the latter half of his paper, Cameron considered whether “homosexual teachers have more frequent sexual interaction with their pupils” (p. 1231). Based on 30 instances of sexual contact between a teacher and pupil reported in ten different sources published between 1920 and 1982, Cameron concluded that “a pupil would appear about 90 times more likely to be sexually assaulted by a homosexual practitioner” (p.1232); the ratio rose to 100 times when Cameron added his bisexual correction.
This ratio is meaningless because no data were obtained concerning the actual sexual orientation of the teachers involved; as before, Cameron assumed that male-male contacts were perpetrated by homosexuals. Furthermore, Cameron’s rationale for selecting particular sources appears to have been completely arbitrary. He described no systematic method for reviewing the literature, and apparently never reviewed the voluminous literature on the sexual development of children and adolescents. His final choice of sources appears to have slanted his findings toward what Cameron described as “the relative absence in the scientific literature of heterosexual teacher-pupil sexual events coupled with persistent, albeit infrequent, homosexual teacher-pupil sexual interactions” (p. 1232).
A subsequent paper by Cameron and others (Cameron, Proctor, Coburn, Forde, Larson, & Cameron, 1986) described data collected in a door-to-door survey in seven U.S. cities and towns, and generally repeated the conclusions reached in Cameron (1985). Even Cameron himself admitted that his conclusions in this study are “based upon small numbers of data points” (Cameron, 2005, p. 230). As before, male-male sexual assaults were referred to as “homosexual” molestations (e.g., Abstract, p.327) and the perpetrators’ sexual orientation apparently was not assessed. This study also suffers from fatal methodological problems, which are detailed elsewhere on this site.
In yet another article published in Psychological Reports, Cameron claimed to have reviewed data about foster parents in Illinois and found that 34% were perpetrated by a foster parent against a child of the same sex, that is, female-female or male-male (Cameron, 2005). Not only did Cameron again make the fallacious claim that all male-male molestations are committed by homosexuals, he also made the same claim about female-female molestations. Once again, he had no data about the actual sexual orientations of the molesters.
Cameron continues to produce reports that essentially repeat the same inaccurate claims. Perhaps one of the best indicators of his diminishing credibility in this area is that his work was not cited in the 2004 FRC report discussed in detail above."
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buffalo
Guest
The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S. Of those, 27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested. Seven percent of the girls and 93% of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were by homosexuals. (Los Angeles Times, August 25-6, 1985)
In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals (22%). (Wasserman, J., “Adolescent Sex Offenders—Vermont, 1984” Journal American Medical Association, 1986; 255:181-2)
In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third were bisexual, and a third were homosexual. (Dr. Raymond Knight, “Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters,” Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991)
Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. (Freund, K. “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984; 10:193-200)
In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals (22%). (Wasserman, J., “Adolescent Sex Offenders—Vermont, 1984” Journal American Medical Association, 1986; 255:181-2)
In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third were bisexual, and a third were homosexual. (Dr. Raymond Knight, “Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters,” Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991)
Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. (Freund, K. “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984; 10:193-200)
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Once again you choose a source which fallaciously assumes that the gender of the victim is the be-all-end-all of the sexual orientation of the perpetrator and does not truthfully present the findings and conclusions of the studies it wrongfully claims supports its position.The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S. Of those, 27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested. Seven percent of the girls and 93% of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were by homosexuals. (Los Angeles Times, August 25-6, 1985)
In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals (22%). (Wasserman, J., “Adolescent Sex Offenders—Vermont, 1984” Journal American Medical Association, 1986; 255:181-2)
In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third were bisexual, and a third were homosexual. (Dr. Raymond Knight, “Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters,” Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991)
Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. (Freund, K. “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984; 10:193-200)
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JimG
Guest
With respect to the child molestation incidents reported in the John Jay study, the abusive priests clearly did have a gender preference. Over 80% boys.All of the scientific studies on peodophilia and hebephelia show that the majority of perptrators have no gender preference. Child molestation is more often than not simply a crime of opportunity as the majority of perpetrators dont give a thought to gender.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
The gender of the victim is not an indicator of sexual preference in cases of pedophelia or hebephelia. The fact that the ratio of boys to girls is so high is, however, evidence that these were simply crimes of opportunity given the established fact that the majority of pedophiles and hebephiles have no gender preference. If priests had greater access to girls the statistics would be reversed.With respect to the child molestation incidents reported in the John Jay study, the abusive priests clearly did have a gender preference. Over 80% boys.
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buffalo
Guest
Child Molestation by homosexuals and heterosexuals
Many homosexual leaders have admitted that there is a natural link between a homosexual orientation and child sexual abuse.
Table 3.5.4 of the John Jay Study is reproduced
below. It clearly shows that, as the age
of the victims rises, the percentage of victims
decisively shifts from primarily female to
overwhelmingly male.
Many homosexual leaders have admitted that there is a natural link between a homosexual orientation and child sexual abuse.
Table 3.5.4 of the John Jay Study is reproduced
below. It clearly shows that, as the age
of the victims rises, the percentage of victims
decisively shifts from primarily female to
overwhelmingly male.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Presenting the work of Paul Cameron in a different format doesnt make it any less specious.
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buffalo
Guest
His is only one reference of 34.Presenting the work of Paul Cameron in a different format doesnt make it any less specious.
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JimG
Guest
The general behavior of pedophiles or ephebophiles is not pertinent to the specific issue of the priest abuse crisis. The facts on the ground relating to this particular issue is that the abusers preferred boys by 80%. Are there any facts uncovered by the John Jay report which point to these as being crimes of opportunity? No. There is rather, some discussion of grooming of boys which took place prior to the abuse. That doesn’t bespeak crimes of opportunity.The gender of the victim is not an indicator of sexual preference in cases of pedophelia or hebephelia. The fact that the ratio of boys to girls is so high is, however, evidence that these were simply crimes of opportunity given the established fact that the majority of pedophiles and hebephiles have no gender preference. If priests had greater access to girls the statistics would be reversed.
Now combine that with the facts presented by Trader in posts #140, 141, and 142, (which are in fact corroborated by books such as Michael Rose’s book “Goodbye Good Men”), and it is apparent that the pederasty connection is simply being ignored by everyone involved.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
What bespeaks crimes of opportunity is that many, if not most, of these crimes were committed in gender segregated schools and orphanages. If these priests had the same quantity of interaction with girls as they did with boys then the statisicts would probably be much closer together but since most hebephiles have no gender preference and many if not most of the hebephile priests spent most of their time in gender segregated environments it is no surprise that most of the victims were boys.The general behavior of pedophiles or ephebophiles is not pertinent to the specific issue of the priest abuse crisis. The facts on the ground relating to this particular issue is that the abusers preferred boys by 80%. Are there any facts uncovered by the John Jay report which point to these as being crimes of opportunity? No. There is rather, some discussion of grooming of boys which took place prior to the abuse. That doesn’t bespeak crimes of opportunity.
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JimG
Guest
IF? That sounds rather like speculation. The facts are what they are: 80% boys. And it’s also true that in some of the seminaries from which those priests graduated there was a homosexual subculture.What bespeaks crimes of opportunity is that many, if not most, of these crimes were committed in gender segregated schools and orphanages. If these priests had the same quantity of interaction with girls as they did with boys then the statisicts would probably be much closer together but since most hebephiles have no gender preference and many if not most of the hebephile priests spent most of their time in gender segregated environments it is no surprise that most of the victims were boys.
The report correlated abuse to particular ordination year cohorts. I don’t recall if it correlated the abuse to particular seminaries. I’ll have to go back and look.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Its an educated guess based on the available data. It was certainly the case in Ireland but I’m not certain whether or not most vs many of the crimes here in the US were committed in gender segregated environments. Many were but I haven’t researched the figures enough to say most with absolute certainty.IF? That sounds rather like speculation…
Were hebephiles with no gender preference the only perpetrators? Probably not and that isn’t what I’m saying. The point is that the problem of clerical sex abuse is far more complex than simply scapegoating gays or implying a global conspiracy on the part of same-sex attracted hebephiles provides an honest or adequate explaination for.IFThe facts are what they are: 80% boys. And it’s also true that in some of the seminaries from which those priests graduated there was a homosexual subculture.
Theres no valid reason to assign a gender preference to a category of perpetrators which typically dont have one and typically target victims based solely on age and opportunity. The fact that 80% of the victims were boys is an indication of circumstance, not of gender preference, especially for an institution in which gender segregation of youth is common.
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