'Study, pray, vote,' Pope tells Americans ahead of elections

[Convert_in_99]

No, my vote won’t be a throw away vote. It will do exactly as I intend for it to do: express my extreme disappointment with both Clinton and Trump, and my desire for a third party.

One of those candidates will be elected regardless, but at least I won’t be guilty of helping either of them.

 

[CenturionSlave]

I would like to believe that responsible voters will understand when such circumstance as “poor candidate choice” arise, a candidate’s persona (to include character, personality, life-style, etc.) should be secondary to the policies they voice. I’m speaking of party-platforms here. My particular criteria for casting my ballot still include where these platforms stand on : Human Life, Supreme Court Judges, Religious Liberty, Education & School Choice, Medical Research, Marriage, Foreign Policy & National Security. (On Religious Liberty alone—see Dem Platform pg 19 and Rep Platform pg 11).
My point, of course, is that this is one of those times when voters will have to do a little extra homework. The responsibility to vote is still ours, candidates notwithstanding. Abstaining from voting is irresponsible in my opinion, both as an American citizen & as a believing/practicing Catholic. (From the Catechism of the Church; CCC 2245 & 2246). It is not about the candidate. It is not about their negativity as depicted by media. It is about the future direction of a country, a society, and the impact we, the people, should have with our votes.
I respectfully suggest reading Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director for Priests for Life, for guidance with how to vote this year.

 

[nodito]

I respectfully suggest reading Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director for Priests for Life, for guidance with how to vote this year.

I have read that document. The third point is:

Reject the Disqualified. Suppose a candidate came forward and said, “I support terrorism.” Would you say, “I disagree with you on terrorism, but what’s your health care plan?” Of course not. Rather, you would immediately consider that candidate as disqualified from public office. His position, allowing the killing of the public, is radically inconsistent with public service.

This reasoning is exactly why I cannot vote Republican or Democrat this year. I have to immediately disqualify Donald Trump because I believe him unfit to lead our country on so many measures, that it doesn’t really matter if I like his stance on religious liberty or what not.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have read that document. The third point is:

This reasoning is exactly why I cannot vote Republican or Democrat this year. I have to immediately disqualify Donald Trump because I believe him unfit to lead our country on so many measures, that it doesn’t really matter if I like his stance on religious liberty or what not.

I would ask what those “so many measures” are, but I’m afraid it will simply draw Clinton organization stereotypes.

To me, there are three central things:

1. Which candidate wants to make me “change my religion”? It’s not Trump. He doesn’t seem to care what my religion is. Hillary Clinton does, and wants me to change it to accommodate abortion on demand.
2. Which is the more likely to appoint justices that are anti-life and pro-executive order governance? Again, Trump satisfies neither category. Clinton fits both.
3. Who is the more likely to start a war or support terrorists? Trump has not started one war or supported terrorists. Clinton has started one war (with horrible results) and has supported terrorists in five countries.

 

[nodito]

I would ask what those “so many measures” are, but I’m afraid it will simply draw Clinton organization stereotypes.

I’m not a Clinton supporter by any means. I just watch the debates and read the news.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The context was the discernment required by priests in the confessional. Again, there is a whole thread on the topic. But my point is that, as the Pope tells us in several contexts, much of life is “in the gray” and requires thought, prayer and discernment. Life is not a series of obvious black and white choices.

In many ways, that’s beyond doubt. Should I go vegan or eat what I want and let my arteries harden if they’re going to?

But in somethings, there’s no “gray” to it. Abortion on demand is just plain black. No gray to it at all, and the Pope would not say otherwise. “Intrinsic evils” like elective abortion are not gray. They’re evil all the time, and every time.

 

[ringil]

Yes it is slam dunk.

The unborn child has no voice. Vote to protect the unborn.

Why didn’t the Pope say that though? Certainly he could have. . . .

 

[TMC]

In many ways, that’s beyond doubt. Should I go vegan or eat what I want and let my arteries harden if they’re going to?

But in somethings, there’s no “gray” to it. Abortion on demand is just plain black. No gray to it at all, and the Pope would not say otherwise. “Intrinsic evils” like elective abortion are not gray. They’re evil all the time, and every time.

The Pope did not say otherwise. He said (essentially) that who to vote for in this election is in the grey. That is certainly true.

 

[OraLabora]

In many ways, that’s beyond doubt. Should I go vegan or eat what I want and let my arteries harden if they’re going to?

But in somethings, there’s no “gray” to it. Abortion on demand is just plain black. No gray to it at all, and the Pope would not say otherwise. “Intrinsic evils” like elective abortion are not gray. They’re evil all the time, and every time.

No supporter of abortion l, after all I was adopted as an infant.

But… while abortion is objectively (i.e. “black and white”) a grave sin, like all grave sins culpability can indeed be subjective (i.e. “grey”).

Think for instance of a young woman pressured by a violent boyfriend, or a minor -a child really- pressured by parents eager to make a stain on their reputation disappear. We are a church of sinners who often find ourselves in moral quandaries or enslavement to our passions. Evangelization, and inner conversion, not strict legalism, are what can truly detach us from sin. In this the Holy Father is correct to note that life is often grey, particularly when it comes to culpability for grave acts in the presence of many difficult factors.

Any objective reading of Amoris Laetitia will clearly reveal his thinking on the “greyness” of life regardless of the objectivity of grave acts.

Catholic moral law may be black, Original Sin has plunged all of us into a sea of grey caused by attachments to our passions and outright idolatry. Nobody here is exempt…

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

While we are waiting for President Trump to maybe appoint a supreme court justice who then might get a case involving abortion rights in which he or she will maybe have opportunity to actually have an impact, what will he be doing about situations in the middle east, China, Russia, and North Korea? Does he even have a clue?

While we are waiting for President Clinton to definitely appoint a supreme court justice who will ensure abortion rights for the next 25 years or so, what will she be doing about situations in the middle east, China, Russia, and North Korea? Does she even have a clue? Libya, Syria, and her Russian reset would indicate she does not.

So we can speculate about what Trump would do on foreign affairs or the USSC (which he has given us a glimpse of), we know with certainty Clinton would bone both up.

What was your point again?

 

[livnlern]

Why didn’t the Pope say that though? Certainly he could have. . . .

The Pope should not be telling us who to vote for. However, we have Scripture, Catholic teaching and the Catechism to guide us. From section 2273 of the CCC:

“The Inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority…Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death…Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.”

Compare the above to pg.37 of the Democratic Party’s Platform:

"Democrats are committed to protecting and advancing reproductive health, rights and justice. We believe, unequivocally, like the majority of Americans, that every woman should have access to quality reproductive health services, including safe and legal abortion…We will continue to oppose- and seek to overturn-federal and state laws and policies that impede a woman’s access to abortion…

The choice is clear. The Democratic Party (Hillary) supports abortion and will do all they can to make it accessable at all stages of pregnancy. They’re the Party of Death and all who vote for their candidates supports the Party of Death.

 

[ringil]

The Pope should not be telling us who to vote for. However, we have Scripture, Catholic teaching and the Catechism to guide us. From section 2273 of the CCC:.

And yet if the choice is as clear as some here are suggesting why didn’t the Pope indicate this- at least state the primacy of the issue of abortion?

He seems to be saying that the choice of voting is not clear based on real and meaningful problems with both candidates.

 

[Beautiful]

The Pope should not be telling us who to vote for. However, we have Scripture, Catholic teaching and the Catechism to guide us. From section 2273 of the CCC:

“The Inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority…Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death…Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.”

Compare the above to pg.37 of the Democratic Party’s Platform:

"Democrats are committed to protecting and advancing reproductive health, rights and justice. We believe, unequivocally, like the majority of Americans, that every woman should have access to quality reproductive health services, including safe and legal abortion…We will continue to oppose- and seek to overturn-federal and state laws and policies that impede a woman’s access to abortion…

The choice is clear. The Democratic Party (Hillary) supports abortion and will do all they can to make it accessable at all stages of pregnancy. They’re the Party of Death and all who vote for their candidates supports the Party of Death.

Well said!
People, get out and vote on election day. Don’t be a no show. Get your friends and family in the car and go vote.

 

[livnlern]

And yet if the choice is as clear as some here are suggesting why didn’t the Pope indicate this- at least state the primacy of the issue of abortion?

He seems to be saying that the choice of voting is not clear based on real and meaningful problems with both candidates.

As I said, the Pope should not be telling us who to vote for. That’s not his place and he knows we each have our consciences as well as priests and bishops that are a lot closer to the situation than he is.
My parish priest had a wonderful homily last week that spoke of all the problems we face that are at odds with our faith. In this he mentioned same sex marriage and abortion among other things. He said it’s possible that in the future, he could be arrested for speaking against these things and then went on to say that many people are very concerned about the direction our country is going in. He talked about the Rosary as a weapon and how, instead of using it to pray against the evils that plague our society, many of us have them as decorations hanging from mirrors and laying on tables. He also talked about how many people have their Bibles gathering dust on coffee tables instead of reading Scripture on a regular basis. In other words, he was saying that if we don’t read Scripture and don’t pray for our families and the world around us, it’s no wonder things are in such a mess and we have no one to blame but ourselves. The time is now to pray for guidance and direction for our country and the world.

 

[Millie123]

The Pope should not be telling us who to vote for. However, we have Scripture, Catholic teaching and the Catechism to guide us. From section 2273 of the CCC:

The Pope is not telling us who to vote for, he is giving us his opinion. We have more than scripture, Catholic teaching, and the Catechism to guide us. You’ve forgotten the Magisterium of the church, which the Pope is a member of, that also guides us. As a Catholic who is also very torn over this election, and who has the most utmost deepest respect towards the magisterium. I myself find the Pope’s (name removed by moderator)ut and opinion regarding this issue to be very valuable.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

The Pope is not telling us who to vote for, he is giving us his opinion. We have more than scripture, Catholic teaching, and the Catechism to guide us. You’ve forgotten the Magisterium of the church, which the Pope is a member of, that also guides us. As a Catholic who is also very torn over this election, and who has the most utmost deepest respect towards the magisterium. I myself find the Pope’s (name removed by moderator)ut and opinion regarding this issue to be very valuable.

I miss John Paul ii and John Cardinal O’Conner, they wouldn’t say who to vote for either; but they were very clear on the weight of grave moral concerns.
JPii is so n Heaven. John Cardinal O’Conner was clearly a friend of God, and also since he would not win a popularity contest; its apropo to add like in much of Scripture and history a prophet is not without honor except among his own countrymen. I know he will be honored forever as a prophet of his time.

 

[Beautiful]

The Pope should not be telling us who to vote for. However, we have Scripture, Catholic teaching and the Catechism to guide us. From section 2273 of the CCC:

“The Inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority…Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death…Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.”

Compare the above to pg.37 of the Democratic Party’s Platform:

"Democrats are committed to protecting and advancing reproductive health, rights and justice. We believe, unequivocally, like the majority of Americans, that every woman should have access to quality reproductive health services, including safe and legal abortion…We will continue to oppose- and seek to overturn-federal and state laws and policies that impede a woman’s access to abortion…

The choice is clear. The Democratic Party (Hillary) supports abortion and will do all they can to make it accessable at all stages of pregnancy. They’re the Party of Death and all who vote for their candidates supports the Party of Death.

The VP debate defines the election…life or death. Trump/Pence are pro-life

 

[ringil]

The VP debate defines the election…life or death. Trump/Pence are pro-life

But if the choice is so clear for the Catholic voter- why didn’t the Pope state this? Why didn’t he even express the primacy of the abortion issue over all other issues?

He didn’t have to endorse any candidate. He could have spline about the supposed “non-negotiable”. He didn’t- he spoke of a difficult choice between flawed candidates.

 

[nodito]

Interesting article from First Things

Catholic Voters and the Ethical Strategy of Abstention

(And by abstention here the article includes voting for third party candidates)

The whole thing is worth a read, but this is a main point:

If Catholic Republicans accept the logic that abstention is almost always a selfish and unjustified act of free-riding, then they admit that they have no exit threat and undermine the incentive for a candidate like Trump to respond to their complaints. They need the exit threat as a bargaining chip. And the exit threat will be credible only if the voters are actually willing to use it. They have to be willing either to vote for another party or to abstain altogether. In this way, when anti-Trump Catholics assert their intention to abstain, they make a strategic choice that has already improved the Trump candidacy and would lead to even better outcomes if more like-minded people would make the same threat.

With enough of them, Trump might be forced to take our religious objections to abortion, euthanasia, torture, and other matters seriously.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The Pope did not say otherwise. He said (essentially) that who to vote for in this election is in the grey. That is certainly true.

He absolutely said no such thing.