Study the Qur’an?

[Techno2000]

That I believe not also

 

[TonyBS]

That I believe not also

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

That is The Mystery why we are to try to understand the Books that God has Given us!

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

That I do not believe

In regards to what is posted above, this Bible passage is of interest;

2 Peter 1:20 “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things”.

The Revelation to Baha’u’llah was explained like this

“I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely”. reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/SB/sb-14.html

The study of the Holy books and Writings of the Prophets bring up many challenges, from the beginning of time this has been so!

The Koran is a link between the Bible and the Baha’i Writings, much clarity about the Baha’i Faith can be gained from reading the Koran.

Much the same as much clarity of religion of Christ is Gained from the Old testament.

Regards Tony

 

[JimmyDFG]

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

That is The Mystery why we are to try to understand the Books that God has Given us!

Regards Tony

For Christians those books are the Old and New Testament

 

[TonyBS]

For Christians those books are the Old and New Testament

JimmyDFG - Immerse yourself in the Ocean of their words so that the pearls of understanding may be cast upon the Shore of Love.

Regards Tony

 

[JimmyDFG]

In regards to what is posted above, this Bible passage is of interest;

2 Peter 1:20 “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things”.

The Revelation to Baha’u’llah was explained like this

“I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely”. reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/SB/sb-14.html

The study of the Holy books and Writings of the Prophets bring up many challenges, from the beginning of time this has been so!

The Koran is a link between the Bible and the Baha’i Writings, much clarity about the Baha’i Faith can be gained from reading the Koran.

Much the same as much clarity of religion of Christ is Gained from the Old testament.

Regards Tony

“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.” 2 Peter 2:1-2
•“For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand” Mark 24:24-25
•“And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many” Matthew 24:4-5
•“Who said: Take heed you be not seduced; for many will come in my name, saying, I am he; and the time is at hand: go ye not therefore after them” Luke 21:8
•“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many” Matthew 24:11
•“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.” Matthew 7:15-20
•“Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” 1 John 4:1
•Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:28-30
•Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared…" 1 Tim 4:1-2
•For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 2 Tim 4:3-4

catholicessentials.net/falseprophets.htm

 

[JimmyDFG]

JimmyDFG - Immerse yourself in the Ocean of their words so that the pearls of understanding may be cast upon the Shore of Love.

Regards Tony

So in other words you want me to immerse myself in the baha’i faith?

 

[TonyBS]

“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.” 2 Peter 2:1-2
•“For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand” Mark 24:24-25
•“And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many” Matthew 24:4-5
•“Who said: Take heed you be not seduced; for many will come in my name, saying, I am he; and the time is at hand: go ye not therefore after them” Luke 21:8
•“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many” Matthew 24:11
•“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.” Matthew 7:15-20
•“Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” 1 John 4:1
•Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:28-30
•Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared…" 1 Tim 4:1-2
•For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 2 Tim 4:3-4

Thus a True Prophet is Known;

**By their fruits you shall know them.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit

Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them

but try the spirits if they be of God:**

A follower of Christ may have to consider this aspect of those passages;

“…For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables”.

It is not as simple as some may wish to conclude, God has never made it simple and the first to reject are the Believers, the first to accept are the Non-Believers.

Strange are we not

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

So in other words you want me to immerse myself in the baha’i faith?

Dear JimmyDFG - In Gods word dear friend in Gods Word. The choice of how to immerse yourself is yours and the conclusions you make of them are also yours.

I have no wish, it is God that Guides, God that gives Love and God that Judges.

May God bless your Journey with what is best for you.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Thus a True Prophet is Known;

**By their fruits you shall know them.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit

Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them

but try the spirits if they be of God:**

A follower of Christ may have to consider this aspect of those passages;

“…For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables”.

It is not as simple as some may wish to conclude, God has never made it simple and the first to reject are the Believers, the first to accept are the Non-Believers.

Strange are we not

Regards Tony

Still the New Testament is the product and discerning of the Church. There’s absolutely no reason to say things like above without due analysis of Jesus words from the Tradition it came from.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

.

I miss brother Vouthon, a dear Catholic friend who often posts here on CAF.

This one, for example, is inspired by true Catholic teaching.
I wish more Catholics would understand this perspective:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…s#post12024876

.

 

[Servant19]

Still the New Testament is the product and discerning of the Church. There’s absolutely no reason to say things like above without due analysis of Jesus words from the Tradition it came from.

MJ

We should all have stayed with Judaism…



.

 

[MartinJordan]

We should all have stayed with Judaism…



.

I’m sure Muslims would disagree.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Still the New Testament is the product and discerning of the Church. There’s absolutely no reason to say things like above without due analysis of Jesus words from the Tradition it came from.

MJ

Martin - Due analysis of the Word of God is our responsibility. It is each person that is Judged and each responsible for His own decisions. I have undertaken my analysis and my decision has been considered to date.

Free Will would be a bit of a joke if we could use an excuse, well that is what they told me to believe, not my fault

Yes the church can guide, but in the end each is responsible for His own Soul and its service to all that is of God.

The Koran has told me that the Church was misguided when it carried on with a couple of its teachings. I feel the Koran has the God Given Authority to claim this as so. It is when the Church did not consider this advice that it was then destined to not offer the full meaning of Scripture.

In many things it has held strong and true and as a Baha’i I Love and are Servant to all that is Strong and True.

May God Bless the Church, its members and everyone’s Faith in Christ

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

.

Maybe our dear Catholic friends are unaware (I’ve studied your religion for a while now )

May I offer some advice from some historical figures who you may respect somewhat!

“…This good action was inspired in your heart by God, the Creator of all things, without whom we can neither do nor think any good thing. He who enlightens all men coming into this world (John 1.9) has enlightened your mind for this purpose. Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. This affection we and you owe to each other in a more peculiar way than to people of other races because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore Him as the creator and ruler of this world…For God knows that we love you purely for His honour and that we desire your salvation and glory, both in this life and in the life to come. And we pray in our hearts and with our lips that God may lead you to the abode of happiness, to the bosom of the holy patriarch Abraham, after long years of life here on earth…”

• Pope St. Gregory VII, Letter XXI to Al-Nasir the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya (Algeria), 1076

“…Through the participation of one people with another there will be love and concord…one manner of loving and honouring God and we should love and help one another, and make it so that between us there be no difference …] which causes us to be enemies with one another and to be at war, killing one another and falling captive to one another. And this war, death and servitude prevent us from giving the praise, reverence and honour we owe to God every day of our life…[And so] all men might be brought together, that they might have understanding, and love one another, and agree in the service of God…Let Christians who are well schooled and proficient in the Arabic language go to Tunis to demonstrate the truth of their faith and let Muslims who are well schooled come to the kingdom of Sicily to discuss their faith with Christian scholars. By acting in this way, maybe, there can be peace between Christians and Muslims, when in the whole world the situation will take effect that neither Christians want to destroy Muslims nor Muslims want to destroy Christians…”

• Blessed Ramon Llull (1232 – ca. 1315), Catholic mystic, philosopher,
  logician and Franciscan missionary

And another two centuries after that…

“…The whole concern of him who wrote that law [Muhammad], therefore, appears to have been primarily to avert the people from idolatry. And to this end he made these kinds of promises and wrote down everything. However, he did not condemn the Gospel, but rather praised it, and thereby intimated that the felicity which is promised in the Gospel would not be less than that corporeal felicity…You will find that not another faith but the one and the same faith is presupposed everywhere…Moses had described a path to God, but this path was neither taken up by everyone nor was it understood by everyone. Jesus illuminated and perfected this path; nevertheless, many even now remain unbelievers. Muhammad tried to make the same path easier, so that it might be accepted by all, even idolaters. These are the most famous of the said paths to God, although many others were presented by the wise and the prophets…”

• Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1453), De Pace Fidei (Catholic mystic & prelate)

"…Do not think you are going to a country of heathens [or “among infidels”]. Muslims attain to salvation. The ways of God are infinite….”

• Pope Pius XI, 1934 (L’Ultima, Florence, Anno VIII)

And finally:

vatican.va/holy_father/jo…blanca_en.html

“…Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection…The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition…On this path, you are assured, of the esteem and the collaboration of your Catholic brothers and sisters whom I represent among you this evening…”

• Pope Saint John Paul II: Address to young Muslims in Casablanca, 1985

.

 

[Servant19]

I’m sure Muslims would disagree.

MJ

No they don’t claim exclusive rights to the Word of God. The Word is for all.
It’s written in English for a reason, with multiple translations so the original meaning may be grasped.

.

 

[worldcitizen]

Dear Catholic friends, jimmy techno, Martin, hope I didn’t forget anyone

Because of your wonderful spirit of sharing your beautiful Faith in Jesus Who I also fully accept I have been to heaven and back so many times in the past few days.

All this spiritual conversation has filled my soul with light and gratitude and so much wonder and awe.

Your hearts are pure as most people hate me and condemn me and say insults and swear bad words at me for the same things I’ve said here. However, you are godly and spiritual.

But from you people. Not one insult. Not one rude comment. Complete courtesy and polite questioning. I think you are true sincere Christians and it’s a privilege to be here with you and I hope my ranting is not a burden because I can be overbearing the way I rattle on sometimes. Please forgive me if I’ve said anything hurtful.

You people here, have inspired my soul and made me love Jesus ten times more!!!

From our conversations when I just open the bible now it’s like coming face to face with the Lord. What if you stopped coming and sharing? I think I would be disconsolate as we have grown close spiritually so I hope I can be worthy to continue sharing with you wonderful people??

You speak and act like the kind of people who don’t discriminate against others who are of different beliefs and understandings. You’re the kind of people who are welcome in my home anytime. I’ve got all the time in the world for people who are not haters.

I think sometimes we all are having a kind of spiritual ‘feast’. The forum is the table and our food is the heavenly verses. And its so delicious.!

God Bless everyone and humanity.

Believe me, you have done so, so much for me spiritually.

 

[arthra]

Does not exist in Quranic understanding nor is it written in their books.

Since this has been brought up here I would recommend a newly released book The Study Quran, A new translation and commentary edited by Seyyid Hossein Nasr.

Of particular note is a reference to the Christian Eucharist on the second column of page 335 in relation to Ayyat 112 of Surih (5) “The Table Spread”.

It’s timely that with the above thread title “Study the Quran” there is also a newly published book on the subject! It’s also available on “Kindle”.

 

[worldcitizen]

The popes seem to be very well informed about Islam amd are looking at what’s in common.

Very good Servant9.

 

[Techno2000]

The Revelation to Baha’u’llah was explained like this

"I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been.

Baha’u’llah was just one of many who Channeled Demon spirits , a true Christian can see right through this.