Again though, there’s nothing here that quotes Jesus saying to go out and kill and fight. Rather, past examples are given and then he quotes why they shouldn’t be afraid of leaving their families. But why isn’t Jesus quoted as incentive to go and kill and destroy?
Do you wish for me to post a list of religion atrocities committed by non-Muslims within the past 100 years?Why haven’t any Christians flown to Iraq to join ISIS? If it’s not an ‘Islam problem’ we should expect all Religions trying to join.
My argument is that Christians killed others in spite of what Jesus said; while Muslims kill others because of what Muhammad said.If you look at history fairly, Christian religious groups often behaved very savagely until the Enlightenment and the (today) nearly universal principle of the separation of religious and political authority in the West which has led to pluralist societies. We can recount an endless litany of examples if needed - the Crusades, Inquisition, burning of witches, wars conducted between Christians of different beliefs.
With some Muslims, yes. Some Muslims will always take certain Surah’s and Hadith literally and will want to impose them. With all Muslims or many Muslims? No, I don’t agree.When you say that the religion of some other group of a billion people is irredeemably savage and violent, you are essentially saying that peace with Muslims is impossible.
Calling an ideology hateful and dangerous is not bigotry. It’s an ideology; why can’t I criticize it without being called a bigot? Say it’s from your god or not, it doesn’t change that it’s a set of ideals that are meant to be criticized and diminished if they’re terrible.That’s bigotry and is, of course, completely unhelpful for relations between Christians, Jews and muslims.
The OT is descriptive, while the Qur’an is perscriptive. Although, you don’t believe this, which is good; many Muslims believe that the Qur’an is an eternal, holy book for all time, meant for all generations. Therefore 9:29 applies today.The Qur’an is not any more violent than the Old Testament, and for similar reasons.
Muhammad, much like many of the Jewish prophets, had to provide leadership for the defense of the Muslim Ummah against tribes and later states who were organized and seeking to exterminate them.Again though, there’s nothing here that quotes Jesus saying to go out and kill and fight. Rather, past examples are given and then he quotes why they shouldn’t be afraid of leaving their families. But why isn’t Jesus quoted as incentive to go and kill and destroy?
Yes, you may. But please show the words that Jesus spoke that they quoted when carrying about any atrocities.Do you wish for me to post a list of religion atrocities committed by non-Muslims within the past 100 years?
Islam has to come to grips with a post-modern, pluralistic global society just like every other religion. We don’t help Muslims do this by talking about how evil their religion is.
Right.Muhammad, much like many of the Jewish prophets, had to provide leadership for the defense of the Muslim Ummah against tribes and later states who were organized and seeking to exterminate them.
Jesus came to an existing civilization with an existing secular authority (Rome) and taught a message purely of spiritual transformation. The Lord Christ was not sent to and did not have to address all of the same issues that were relevant to the religious leadership of Moses and Joshua and Muhammad.
Exodus 22:18. Leviticus 20:13. Deuteronomy 21:18-21.The OT is descriptive, while the Qur’an is perscriptive.
So when you quote the Old Testament, the only thing you can do is ignore the NT and what Jesus said. We know that any old rules on killing others for their sins were replaced with forgiveness by Jesus.Exodus 22:18. Leviticus 20:13. Deuteronomy 21:18-21.
Those read pretty “prescriptive” to me.
In the case of the Qur’an, the Surih you referenced gave instructions regarding how to deal with people who were at war with the Muslims at that time, or sending armies against them.
You are of course correct that Muslims need to mature and embrace pluralistic societies. I expect it will be as difficult for them as it has been for other societies who have gone through that process.
Except for John of Patmos, right?\But Christians believe that Jesus is God and the seal of all Prophets and claimed “It is finished.”
How do you know what Muhammad’s dying words actually were?While Muslims believe that Muhammad is the seal of the Prophets and his hate for the Jews, and often Christians is still exemplified today. His dying words were cursing Jews and Christians, while Jesus’s begged God to forgive His killers.
Huh?Except for John of Patmos, right?
Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:How do you know what Muhammad’s dying words actually were?
You said the OT was descriptive, and I supplied evidence it was proscriptive.So when you quote the Old Testament
Actually, both Muslims and Christians agree that the time appointed to their community is temporary, both believe that Christ will return “in the Glory of the Father”, and create a new Heaven and a new Earth.The Qur’an gives no context and is the final and eternal words of Allah. And that belief was held for generations and still is.
You said there were no more prophets.Huh?
So, we have to accept that Aisha’s statement is correct AND that the chain of narrators from Aisha to whoever wrote down that account transmitted the message correctly.When the last moment of the life of Allah’s Apostle came he started putting his ‘Khamisa’ on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” The Prophet was warning (Muslims) of what those had done.
I assume you understand the Christian position on John and the book of Revelation.You said there were no more prophets.
John of Patmos was a prophet, he wrote the Book of Revelation.
Some do.So, we have to accept that Aisha’s statement is correct AND that the chain of narrators from Aisha to whoever wrote down that account transmitted the message correctly.
Ask Shia Muslims what they think of Aisha sometime, and if they listen to any Hadiths from her.
I imagine it depends on the Christian.I assume you understand the Christian position on John and the book of Revelation.
If this is an attempt to justify wars and yes, atrocities, in the name of Allah and Quran, then it is a very weak one.Do you wish for me to post a list of religion atrocities committed by non-Muslims within the past 100 years?
John was basically an apostle. I came across one Muslim in a discussion who confused this John as John the Baptist who was indeed a prophet.You said there were no more prophets.
John of Patmos was a prophet, he wrote the Book of Revelation.
John revealed a book based on a prophetic vision conveyed to him by God, which is what many prophets in the Old Testament did such as Ezekiel and Daniel.John was basically an apostle. I came across one Muslim in a discussion who confused this John as John the Baptist who was indeed a prophet.
Of course it isn’t. There is no justification for wars and atrocities no matter who commits them.If this is an attempt to justify wars and yes, atrocities, in the name of Allah and Quran, then it is a very weak one.
Allah means God in Arabic. Arab Christians pray to Allah just as Muslims do.The only justification left for Muslims who go to war for the cause of Allah is really to explain the Surahs that they quoted that command them to do so.
Muslims are not forced to accept the validity of Hadiths from Aisha, that’s something that many of them choose to accept because that’s what they have been taught to do.It’s not a YOU problem, it’s a problem with 90% of all Muslims that they must accept.
It is good if you just address my post rather than making your belief statement. You may say there is no justification. I understand that. But I am not talking about you in that post but about Muslims who made wars in the name of their God and Quran. They quoted the Surahs. We would like to know how they explain that.Allah means God in Arabic. Arab Christians pray to Allah just as Muslims do.
And there is no justification for holy wars no matter the religion.