Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[irishpatrick]

I can understand why you would have felt the way you did Annabelle Marie when you left the practice of the faith. Stumbling blocks is I think a good way of putting it

In addition, those few priests somehow seemed to become the few leaders everyone was supposed to follow it seems. I keep seeing posts about church leaders say this or that. But what if someone’s priest/church leader is not among those few or he has a different perspective as to what attire is appropriate compared to another priest or someone here. Who is the Catholic to follow? Their own priest and church leader or others?

My view is simple: when we go to Mass, we are going to be receiving God–we will be in Communion with Jesus, Mary and the Saints. We will do that with other Christians around us. I believe we owe those other Christians a debt of being respectful of the situation. People can make their own choices–yet it is certainly a topic worthy of discussion.

I think regarding my opinions here, a basic question arises (and the answer people have for it will reveal the divisions present here). That question is:

**Do we, as Roman Catholic Christians, owe a debt to those around us to provide a sound example of Christian living (in how we dress, and in all things)? **

 

[Sarabande]

I think everyone knows what proper dress means. All this hand wringing is just silly–I doubt there is even one person here who needs a lesson regarding various levels of dress. The truth is, some want to wear the faded jean shorts and t-shirts with logos splashed all over, and they do not care what others think.

Perhaps people on here do know the difference, but I honestly think many in the real world don’t because of how society has blurred the lines so much with what is proper and attire and what is not. I also think no one on this thread is advocating wearing faded jean shorts and logo-ed t-shirt, although I’m sure there are people in the real world who would. Those who are my generation or younger would definitely not know the difference, though, because most have not been raised to think in that way. So many of our parents in my generation were the ones who were “bucking the system” in the 60s and 70s and the 80s and made the effort to dress as casually as possible along with various other acts of “rebellion” and change. Many don’t even know what is and what is not considered modest when you see parents allowing their daughters to dress in super short skirts and tight tops for mass, which I think is a much bigger issue than figuring out if a pair of dress jeans are as appropriate as a pair of dress pants.

Of course, there are levels. I think the majority of people would be able to decipher that a pair of roughed up jeans and a t-shirt is not as nice as a suit and tie or a dress. But in the past where there were specific expectations as to how to dress for certain situations and events, today the criteria isn’t as concrete. I kind of wish it still was along with other aspects of life because I do think it has become a little too lax and is more confusing for people, especially those coming of age today. I’m already anticipating the arguments and discussions I may have with my children when they are teens and are trying to insist on wearing more casual clothing or sloppy clothing because their peers are doing it.

 

[MissRose73]

As a teen, yes I wore jeans & tees to school most of the time. They were neat, clean, and not tight/revealing/vulgar at all. I knew I could not wear them to Mass and had other clothes just for Mass (or other dress clothing).

Even my sister’s kids who are now pre-teens, I am letting them know as their Godmother that they should wear a nice regular (non tee type) shirt and pants to Mass. They do understand that is respectful to dress decently for Mass.

I would say most clothing types worn in an office that requires either business casual or professional is good enough for Mass. I would say the clothing should be neat, clean, not tight, short, and revealing. Anything worn on casual Friday like tee shirts, shorts, track/athletic wear etc is out of the question. Clean and unripped Jeans are okay for Mass if they are paired with a nice regular shirt, and not tight/revealing or super baggy.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Thanks for you comments, Annabelle Marie. I think you raise some worthy points. And when it comes to attire there is definitely some gray area. You will never get 100% agreement on what is appropriate attire for ma****ss. But I would hope that we could all agree that more thought needs to be put into what we’re wearing and that too many people seem to give it no thought at all. And this might be indicative of a larger problem of **non-reverence during mass - the laughing and carrying on during the kiss of peace, the lack of reverence in line to receive communion, talking loudly while in the presense of the blessed sacrament, etc. ** We seem to have become too casual in general in recent decades and attire is, I think, one manifestation of that. I am speaking generally of course - there might be reasons why some wear dirty clothes and we ought to be careful not to judge individual cases not knowing what their deal is, but generally, I think people dress too shabbily. Let me be the first to pipe up about shorts: I think its too casual. In Hawaii where its warm or hot year 'round, only the tourists came to mass dressed casually. How hard is it to pack a pair of slacks? If you go to a nice restaurant while on vacation you’d not wear shorts, so why wear them at mass? The locals never wore shorts - but they would wear nice aloha shirts and slacks. While I think its possible to take this too far and be too strict - I do think that we need to do a better job here. And I speak as someone who has worn jeans to mass. A few years ago I decided to wear nicer clothes because mass is pretty special, and deserving of nicer clothes! We should want to dress nice for mass! Not agonize over what to wear, mind you, but actually want to dress up a bit - going to mass is not like anything else is it?

I agree, but perhaps we could all agree on a minimum standard or atleast what not to wear.

Ishii

There are several points I’d like to comment on.

1. I don’t always think wearing jeans is necessarily not thinking about it. Nor shorts for that matter. I know you don’t agree on shorts. I don’t wear them but my husband does…but he does spend time picking them out…ironing them if they need it…finding a nice shirt to go with it.
2. Yes society as a whole is less fancy then they used to be…people used to dress up for airline travel or dinners out…mostly because they rarely did those things. Now people wear pj’s to the store or out shopping:shrug: So, I think you would see some shift in how people dress to Mass just because of the times. However, like the article said…there is no excuse for being immodest. I think a priest was quoted as saying…you can be casual and comfortable…but you need to be clean and modest.
3. You used to wear something different to Mass and then you progressed and felt called to wear different clothing…right? Should we not allow others that same opportunity? Not everyone pops out as saints… I for one…used to wear jeans and tennis shoes for a while (well, I’ve only been back for a year and a half) and I still will wear jeans once in a while…but usually not on Saturday nights. Some Sat. nights I’m scheduled as an EMHC and I don’t like to wear jeans then and other Sat nights I feel I might be called on to fill in and so I don’t wear them then. But hey…it might happen…like it did on Sunday that I filled in wearing my jeans. There are exceptions. Better clean jeans then too tight of dockers…
4. You are right about reverence in general. When DH was in RCIA and we had to go to the later Mass…there was SO much talking beforehand…drove me nuts…I couldn’t wait to get back to early Mass. Last Wed night…during Benediction…we had people walk through the church to another room with food and talking. Benediction doesn’t take that long…they could have waited. But there is always that risk that we will become casual when we dare to call God our father…our father…that’s a special relationship…one that I would not give up for anything. You need reverence…but you also need that relationship too.

I think we all have agreed on what NOT to wear. Low cut, ratty, dirty, T-shirts with logos…and the sort. Just no one wants to admit that we have… As the Body of Christ…I guess we are like siblings and like to argue.

 

[CMatt25]

I think everyone knows what proper dress means. All this hand wringing is just silly–I doubt there is even one person here who needs a lesson regarding various levels of dress. The truth is, some want to wear the faded jean shorts and t-shirts with logos splashed all over, and they do not care what others think.

Ok so some people are talking about reaching a consensus and some have said this discussion has supposedly not been about clothing. So lets see if we have reached a consensus.

I have never worn to Mass faded jean shorts nor a tee shirt with logos. I have worn what I call cargo type shorts which reach my knees when I am standing, in beige, army green, and gray. My tee shirts are plain often in navy or black. I am in sneakers or in what some have called gym shoes.

Annabelle Marie has said she sometimes wears dark blue jeans and her husband pressed docker shorts.

Do we have agreement this attire is appropriate and is not showing a lack of respect for the Lord nor for the congregants around us? Nor setting an unsound example to those around us? And that they satisfy everyone’s minimum standards for what to wear?

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR WARNING

Discuss the issues not each other. final warning before suspensions are issued

 

[Sarabande]

1. Yes society as a whole is less fancy then they used to be…people used to dress up for airline travel or dinners out…mostly because they rarely did those things. Now people wear pj’s to the store or out shopping:shrug:

A little OT, but some airlines still require certain people to dress nicely. My mother-in-law used to work for an airline and if she or any friends/family using special discounted tickets were traveling, they were not permitted to wear jeans, sweats, pjs, etc. Even now that she is retired and has the flight privileges, she still has to follow the rules. You had to wear clean, nice clothing. Whenever I’ve used them, I was warned about that because I could potentially be refused boarding the plane. now, if you’re just a regular customer, then that doesn’t apply. And it was worth following because you spend so little compared to what you have spend for a round trip ticket today.

1. You are right about reverence in general. When DH was in RCIA and we had to go to the later Mass…there was SO much talking beforehand…drove me nuts…I couldn’t wait to get back to early Mass. Last Wed night…during Benediction…we had people walk through the church to another room with food and talking. Benediction doesn’t take that long…they could have waited. But there is always that risk that we will become casual when we dare to call God our father…our father…that’s a special relationship…one that I would not give up for anything. You need reverence…but you also need that relationship too.

We experienced something similar when my cousin was confirmed. The amount of boisterous talking before mass was crazy. The priest and nun who was the principal of the school had to announce in the church like 5 times reminding people that we were in the presence of the Lord and that we should show prayerful respect to those trying to pray. It would be quiet for like a minute and then would start up again. It just seemed like they didn’t treat confirmation as something holy, but just a right of passage for their child/niece/nephew/grandchild/sibling. But many people (more often cradle Catholics) I know don’t even believe that it is truly Jesus in the tabernacle, so it didn’t surprise me either.

I think we all have agreed on what NOT to wear. Low cut, ratty, dirty, T-shirts with logos…and the sort. Just no one wants to admit that we have… As the Body of Christ…I guess we are like siblings and like to argue.

Oh, yes, I agree, although I think the thread has finally gotten to the point where one side realizes that the other side is not advocating the above. I think it’s a different story in the real world, which is really who should actually be reading these threads. Really, I think mostly everyone who has been participating in this particular thread are of the same mind in regards to modesty, etc., but coming from different angles

 

[irishpatrick]

Ok so some people are talking about reaching a consensus and some have said this discussion has supposedly not been about clothing. So lets see if we have reached a consensus.

I have never worn to Mass faded jean shorts nor a tee shirt with logos. I have worn what I call cargo type shorts which reach my knees when I am standing, in beige, army green, and gray. My tee shirts are plain often in navy or black. I am in sneakers or in what some have called gym shoes.

Annabelle Marie has said she sometimes wears dark blue jeans and her husband pressed docker shorts.

Do we have agreement this attire is appropriate and is not showing a lack of respect for the Lord nor for the congregants around us? Nor setting an unsound example to those around us? And that they satisfy everyone’s minimum standards for what to wear?

I will not attempt to say what any individual should wear, it is up to them. This is a general discussion, which can be taken by each person to examine how they do things. It is not meant, nor was it ever meant, as any form of condemnation of any person here.

 

[catharina]

I will not attempt to say what any individual should wear, it is up to them. This is a general discussion, which can be taken by each person to examine how they do things. It is not meant, nor was it ever meant, as any form of condemnation of any person here.

Very well said, Patrick, as usual.

 

[irishpatrick]

Very well said, Patrick, as usual.

Thank you.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

First, nothing I have posted here is directed at you personally, so please do not take these statements as a personal attack.

Second, if you feel comfortable with how you dress to Mass, then great, I have nothing to say about that either way. My comments are general statements–it is now, and always has been, up to each Catholic to make their own choices. So, again, if you feel comfortable with how you dress, then nothing I have said applies to you–at all.

Third, my analogy regarding the Pope stands. I think you know full well what I am attempting to say. Many Catholics quite clearly put little to no thought at into what they wear to Mass, or how they act, or how they look. Yet, we also know that most (if not all) of those same people would dress in suits, dresses, etc…to attend a wedding, or see the Pope or even to work if it is required. Granted, those are human expectations at those events, yet my point all along is that we owe those around us a debt (regarding the faith).

Fourth, with all of this, I am simply saying that when Catholics care very little about how they look when they go to Mass, that IS a message to those around them. It is no different than if we showed-up at a wedding in shorts…it is disrepectful. God does not need us to dress well, the Body of Christ does, and especially Catholic children do (as well as our non-Catholic brethren). Dressing well shows others that we take the Mass seriously, that it means enough for us to dress well, and that is just not another “thing” we have to do. By dressing well, we are telling the world that we understand that during the Mass we are receiving our Lord and Savior–and that it is not a mere symbol, it is truly the Lord!

I intend none of this to be an attack on any person–they are general statements.

Thank you for clarifying but I didn’t take them as personal attacks…or you would be on my “ignore” list

I think though that your Pope reference or President reference is not a good one. It would be difficult to relate to. One because the likelyhood of that happening to most of is–well is really none. It would be a one time event…you could probably even borrow clothing for that. I know I would for the Pope, borrow clothing that is. It is too hard to relate to nor is it practical. I don’t meet the Pope everyday…nor can I dress everyday for the Pope…nor can most people.

I don’t necessarily agree that I owe anyone at Mass a debt to dress a certain way. Again that also can be a moving target. Someone may feel that anything less than a dress and veil is wrong…and someone else may think dirty jeans is fine. So, my responsiblity is to dress according to how a see fitting to the Lord and as my informed concience sees fit. It is also not my responsiblity to correct or look down on those that I “feel” might not be dressed as how I see they should be.

A good example, my husband. I don’t feel it is my responsiblity to tell him that he should stop wearing shorts. Nor should I look down on him because he does. My responsiblity is to be a witness in what I wear…which I feel I am. It’s also my responsiblity not to drive him away from the Church by getting too caught up in things such as dress. We were drawn here in the reverence people had towards the Eucharist, not in what they were wearing but in their contenance and actions. They weren’t flippantly sitting around, talking loud, etc…most of them were just silent and in awe. Those that were dressed in slacks and a tie as well as those in kakhi’s (dockers) and a shirt as well as those in jeans and suspenders. And I’ve seen people who seem to have little regard for the Eucharist in all sorts of attire.

Interesting enough…I turned away from the Church when I met DH as we noticed that Catholics could be so caught up in all these “details” that they really did not have the slightest idea of what they were doing or why…so of course that is where my filter comes from.

 

[CMatt25]

I will not attempt to say what any individual should wear, it is up to them. This is a general discussion, which can be taken by each person to examine how they do things. It is not meant, nor was it ever meant, as any form of condemnation of any person here.

Ok then if the issue is to examine, I can only speak for myself but I have long ago examined myself and I am at peace with what I wear. Peace.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Ok then if the issue is to examine, I can only speak for myself but I have long ago examined myself and I am at peace with what I wear. Peace.

…in which case, why do keep protesting about something you are supposedly “at peace” about?

 

[CMatt25]

…in which case, why do keep protesting about something you are supposedly “at peace” about?

I stated I am at peace with what I wear. I do not protest what I wear. But the mod stated a final warning about not discussing others. And since your question discusses me, and I am not certain I myself could answer without invoking others in a general sense, I suppose I have to decline to expand my answer further.