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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Coming next week. Tux rentals for Mass. And women, drag out that white dress you wore 20 years ago. Hope it still fits.
How about instead, we wear clean clothes that cover our bodies? Pants and a shirt works.
Who says it has to be a suit or a dress? St. Peter’s doesn’t but people here seem to get the idea if you are not in a suit/dress then you are in something really casual. Not so…
I normally wear what I wear to work…dockers/shirts. I see no reason to invest in several dresses just to impress so and so. I don’t think clean/pressed dockers is immodest.
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Go back and read post #21 where I say “I know a great deal of people who show up in modest simple clothing and that is just fine.”
Now read #22…
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Now I’m confused…you say that you are just calling for something more than what one wears to do garden work…and then in the very next post you indicate that suits are more preferable to ordinary slacks or jeans. Which is it?Then, your situation is unique and understandable. I believe that Tigg, Elizabeth, and I are calling for something more than what one wears to do garden work or washing the car.
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
curlycool89;8351913:
So if you were to get to visit with the Queen of England or the President of the USA, what would you wear? Suit and tie or khaki’s and a polo shirt or jeans and a t-shirt?
Shouldn’t you dress as nicely for Christ as you would for an earthly queen?
Hate to break it to you but I could care less about the Queen of England or the President of the USA. Ya…I probalby would wear jeans…and maybe a sweater to meet them…
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curlycool89
Guest
No, I mean that people are being judged by what they wear.
Basically, the argument against more casual clothes seems to boils down to “Why don’t you love Jesus enough?”, which is definitely judging.
Here’s an interesting curve ball for people: what about us on campus? I’ll go to daily Mass between classes, and I will just be wearing whatever I happen to be wearing that day. If it’s hot, I’m in shorts and a t-shirt; it’s it’s cold I’m in pants and a sweater (and so is everyone else that is not a professor).
I’ll tell you, there’s nothing more uncomfortable than sitting in class in a suit, and it’s just a downright stupid idea if you have some kind of lab (chemistry related ones could ruin your clothes, and I know that because I had to get rid of a t-shirt that ended up with holes in it after a lab).
I guess college students just aren’t Catholic enough then and should skip going to Mass because they’re not “presentable enough” then, eh?
I don’t like jeans, so I’d be in khakis (Cargos?) and a respectable t-shirt or sweater/hoddie (aka bunnyhug in the local lingo) depending on the weather (summer/winter, although winter might also be my big winter coat, toque, and gloves if it’s outside).
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ChiRho
Guest
because college students can’t keep a bag with a change of clothes with them? I was in college, went to Mass on campus. I didn’t dress up. I should have. I didn’t do it out of laziness, I had every opportunity to. If people knew that they had to carry around one extra bag with some lightweight clothes in it for a few hours, and would receive $100 at the end of the day, no one would complain twice about doing it. But people will find every excuse to leave Mass early, get to Mass late, miss Mass while on vacation, not wear appropriate attire, etc. I’ve been there, done that. It boils down to not caring enough in the end.I guess college students just aren’t Catholic enough then and should skip going to Mass because they’re not “presentable enough” then, eh?
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Andrew_Odom
Guest
I don’t buy it, CMatt.
As an aside, many of the '60s-influenced priests (and this is true where I am) also burden us with strictly folk-guitar Masses, with confession not emphasized, everyone goes up for communion, the laity are all over the alter, etc. But I digress.
I knew I might create some bait (by admitting that ) for those who are opposed to dressing up just a bit for church, but I have an interesting story personally of what happens when your parents drop the ball and then secular society takes you further and further from God. (I’ll save it for another time but for the record I’ve been going to daily mass pretty much for five years now since my return some ten years ago in some small way making up for those years from age 13 to 33…)
I don’t feel any less Catholic for having been away during that time and in fact I feel called to reach out to our lost fellow Catholics. It’'s given me some insights as I certainly became super “liberal” on everything - including dress. In my 20s, and part of my 30s, I wouldn’t be caught in slacks or a collared shirt as a rule and wore a denim jacket, longer hair, you name it. That was the collegiate / work environment I was in and there was no social pressure the other way. You’re the odd duck now if you’re under 35 and dress like an adult, so to speak…unless you’re in certain segments of society and locations.
Older and wiser ( in my view), I’ve come to appreciate much about how American society was in many ways a more civil society and certainly in terms of etiquette, tastes and judgment. I’m not saying there weren’t ills of racism, war, pollution, etc. and I acknowledge that society could be a bit confining, but given today’s extremes, I’m nostalgic for what I recall from the recent past. Put another way, the world that I recall from 1978 when Blessed John Paul II became Pope until his death of 2005 had
radically changed for Catholics at Mass.
As recently as the '70s in the pews of the Catholic church. I simply never saw a man over 20 years of age wear shorts in church, *period. * In fact, shorts were strictly for school boys, so to speak and I don’t think even a ten year old came to church with them on, let alone, jeans, which have taken over in terms of cloth because of a sense of ease and comfort, never mind that they’re not actually the most comfortable pair of pants, if that is one’s concern.
I’ve grown to realize a good pair of slacks, a button-down, long sleeve, collared shirt is about all a man needs. I do wear a tie, in part to make up for the slack wear of many others, and mostly leave the jacket behind, although I do wear one at work all week and find it quite comfortable. It can be quite hot wear I am and until I begin working as an usher or lector (as has been suggested) I’ll leave the jacket home if only to meet the "casuals "half-way.
Indeed, to the other comment, most of the major city I work in does in fact dress reasonably well but one can always spot the more casual (read sloppy) sort out there.
In almost every case, they are clinging to youth and/or in that odd IT world wear you can dress in what I often see is a “hardly-trying” fashion.
As for Jesus wearing sandals, I think it’s been said that unless you walk on water as well, you might try to show more respect for the Mass …by at least dressing as well as you might for a Parent-Teacher conference, as someone rightly noted.
I re-read my first comment and feared it might be uncharitable but in hindsight I stand by my comments. I try not to go too deeply into judging but I can’t help but notice the contrast between the half that understands that they should dress reasonably well and the other side that is in sneakers and jeans. Let’s face it: the '60s generation did make it all about one’s “personal comfort” and we see that in the discussion. I happent to be most comfortable in soft shorts and a v-necked white t-shirt in the comfort of my home but I try not to be seen in public too much with it. (By the way, it’s the under-40 set who gave the term “Wife-beater” its currency. It’s an unfortunate term in every sense (insulting even to the comfortable design of this style
- and should be not be in general use.)Since my comment on Friday, on Sunday observed a dark-sunglasses mother with her mini-skirted teenage girl going down the aisle as she yanked at it to keep it down. I didn’t want to notice this and don’t deny they both may have felt “comfortable” but frankly it was a distraction.
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Andrew_Odom
Guest
P.S. (sorry I ran so long)
For those of us who remember how it was not all that long ago, it’s just hard to fathom that the Sabbath day in general is just not as important. People are doing a whole lot more on Sunday and the Mass apparently is something to get over with, sadly, and even the Saturday 5pm mass for some has that effect: to free up Sunday for anything but going to church. I work to keep the spirit of family rest and leisure on Sunday but I’m increasingly the only one where I live.
I think we all agree the extreme cases are regrettable but I’d wager that if the whole look was more in step uniformly, one would be less likely to “push the envelope” by bearing a lot of flesh and I include men’s hairy legs as well. Sure, it’s sort of trivial but I think it’s distracting from what should be a holy experience. I know that some come from more humble work environments but even then, back in the day, a workman might might wear a company work uniform (a mechanic’s uniform with theit name on it - used to wear them myself) but come church time, they *knew *to put on slacks (not what we used to call “dungarees”)and a decent shirt.
Look at the world of the '40s and '50s in the USA - we were better dressed, hands down. Was it more work? Probably but as someone who now dresses well almost all of the week if I can help, it becomes second nature and in fact is quite comfortable.
Time was I’d go out of the house to the store with ripped jeans and a ragged t-shirt or flannel shirt. It took a classy lady (my wife, from another country) to wean me off of this.
Oh well…interesting discussion folks and while venting a bit, I try to maintain charity. In fact, the worst dressed person (I try to tell myself) at least is in a pew that day unlike so many other Catholics who have abandoned the Church or barely ever go. I just wish the more people dressed like they thought it was a special place… more special than where they worlk. We’ll get there someday!: Thanks again for a great forum, folks!
For those of us who remember how it was not all that long ago, it’s just hard to fathom that the Sabbath day in general is just not as important. People are doing a whole lot more on Sunday and the Mass apparently is something to get over with, sadly, and even the Saturday 5pm mass for some has that effect: to free up Sunday for anything but going to church. I work to keep the spirit of family rest and leisure on Sunday but I’m increasingly the only one where I live.
I think we all agree the extreme cases are regrettable but I’d wager that if the whole look was more in step uniformly, one would be less likely to “push the envelope” by bearing a lot of flesh and I include men’s hairy legs as well. Sure, it’s sort of trivial but I think it’s distracting from what should be a holy experience. I know that some come from more humble work environments but even then, back in the day, a workman might might wear a company work uniform (a mechanic’s uniform with theit name on it - used to wear them myself) but come church time, they *knew *to put on slacks (not what we used to call “dungarees”)and a decent shirt.
Look at the world of the '40s and '50s in the USA - we were better dressed, hands down. Was it more work? Probably but as someone who now dresses well almost all of the week if I can help, it becomes second nature and in fact is quite comfortable.
Time was I’d go out of the house to the store with ripped jeans and a ragged t-shirt or flannel shirt. It took a classy lady (my wife, from another country) to wean me off of this.
Oh well…interesting discussion folks and while venting a bit, I try to maintain charity. In fact, the worst dressed person (I try to tell myself) at least is in a pew that day unlike so many other Catholics who have abandoned the Church or barely ever go. I just wish the more people dressed like they thought it was a special place… more special than where they worlk. We’ll get there someday!: Thanks again for a great forum, folks!
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curlycool89
Guest
…serious question here. What exactly was the thought process that led you to believe this was at all a good idea?
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ChiRho
Guest
??? Could you specify please? Can clothes not be folded and put in a duffle bag?
As you can see, a passive-aggressive question is rarely effective in getting the desired answer.
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ringil
Guest
Well, wearing a sout would draw attention at most churches I have seen. Even at the EF masses it’s usually only the ushers who dress up in suits.
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curlycool89
Guest
Speaking as a university student (so you can call me a bit of an expert), it’s just a plain bad idea.
I’ll admit, you can call it a solution. But if I install 5m pipes for storm sewers in a city I can also call that a solution, with the caveat that it would be unfeasible not to mention it would be economically disastrous.
My bag that I take is already full with school-related things, and it would be dumb to take a second bag just for a second set of clothes that would be worn for ~20 minutes. Oh, and this isn’t taking into account the fact that there isn’t actually time to change as my classes run from when I get to the university until 10 minutes before Mass (if class ends on time, which is iffy), and the chapel is halfway across campus. I’ll save you the math and reiterate that there’s no time to change. This is not at all a unique situation either.
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ChiRho
Guest
It wouldn’t be dumb to take a bag for clothes if it’s for Mass. Your situation might not allow it, but I’d challenge everyone to try to work things out and see if it isn’t as impossible as people make it out to be to wear nicer clothes to Mass. Everyone has a busy schedule, and maybe that’s part of the problem
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antonivs
Guest
I don’t think God cares about the externals, like what we are wearing. I’ll bet there are many well dressed people in the pews whose hearts are not right with God.
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curlycool89
Guest
…no, you don’t take extra bags when you’re in school. You’re on the bus and walking around all day. You don’t take extra things you don’t need (not to mention that there’s barely room to put a backpack in many classrooms, never mind another bag).
This isn’t work we’re talking about, it’s school.
There’s something you need to understand. Being able to make it to daily Mass for students is a bonus. Last semester I had classes during the scheduled daily Mass every day of the week (required classes for my degree, not optional). These are people who are lucky to even have the opportunity; for many it’s run from one class to Mass and then run to another class after.
I’m sorry to make the analogy, but you sound like a pharisee putting extra demands on people just for the sake of putting extra demands on them.
Next you’ll be saying that these same people shouldn’t go to adoration during the week because they’re “unpresentable” according to your definition. Then after that you’ll say that they shouldn’t even be praying in the chapel.
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ChiRho
Guest
you sure are getting irritated and putting a lot of words in my mouth, when all I suggested was putting a change of clothes in a bag.
I just weighed my clothes: I usually wear slacks and a dress shirt and shoes. If you tend to wear nicer shoes to class, you wont even have to change shoes. Grand total of 3 pounds, including shoes. If they’re folded properly they wont wrinkle, and many clothes are made wrinkle resistant. For ladies, a dress might weigh even less. I doubt that people’s backpacks are so stuffed that they cant fit 3lbs of clothing in them.
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curlycool89
Guest
Mine is. There’s no room for a pair of pants, never mind shoes.
I noticed that you mentioned a dress for women too. Can I interpret you to say that you don’t believe that women should be wearing pants to Mass either then?
Then again, when it comes to this issue none of the priests have said anything. When it comes down to priests vs some random guy on the internet (no offence), I generally don’t listen to random people on the internet.
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ChiRho
Guest
and I guess a 2 oz shopping bag is too much to carry as well. You seem to have made up your mind, but I still maintain that if people were given $100 at the end of each day for carrying a little extra, they’d do it with a smile on their face. With dressing up for Mass, they can’t be bothered to.
no, you may not
you’re making a statement for what all priests say? Bold of you
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Do you not understand that this is just as judgmental/stereotyping as is the assumption that people who are inappropriately dressed have hearts “right with God”?
Neither can be asserted, and the thread is not about whose heart is and is not right with God. That’s for Him to determine. What we as Catholics have every right to express, is our opinion of what it does to a community atmosphere, not to mention to the Witness which may be affecting a potential catechumen in the pew, for Massgoers to seem to make a point of wearing as inappropriate attire as possible. Our spiritual inclinations are not centered on others, but they can be affected by others, in the sense that it can be both demoralizing and distracting to worship with a community which puts so little effort, so little consciousness, into wearing anything different on the one day of the week that is truly distinguishable from all the others. – and worse, making a point to dress down. It’s a huge statement about what a community values, and in that respect, it’s legitimate to raise concerns.
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