Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[Tigg]

Not certain what you mean by thrift store. But if you mean like a Goodwill store, in vogue or not, one of my priorities is to tend to leave the thrift stores for those even less fortunate than me. Of course I strive to and have a tendency to prioritize for instance the poor, the sick without adequate health care coverage, the homeless, the hungry, the naked, world peace, far over what others are wearing to church.

Apparently you are unaware that the thrift stores and Goodwill provide jobs for the handicapped and otherwise unemployable so your post makes no sense to me. I patronize them whenever I can to help keep those people employed. The moral high ground you have taken doesn’t help either…another straw man (have we lost count? ) All the things above do not explain why you can not still show respect for the Divine Action that transpires at Mass by respectable dress.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Indeed. Refraining from patronizing the Goodwill stores may or may not provide any benefit to the unemployable who do benefit from the proceeds of those sales.

 

[ringil]

Apparently you are unaware that the thrift stores and Goodwill provide jobs for the handicapped and otherwise unemployable so your post makes no sense to me. I patronize them whenever I can to help keep those people employed. The moral high ground you have taken doesn’t help either…another straw man (have we lost count? ) All the things above do not explain why you can not still show respect for the Divine Action that transpires at Mass by respectable dress.

True respect is shown in the heart and mind. It is invisible to those around us.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

True respect is shown in the heart and mind. It is invisible to those around us.

? Do you really think that one’s outward appearance is totally unrelated at all times to one’s inward ‘appearance?’ Can you cite historical precedent that bears out your claim?

 

[ringil]

? Do you really think that one’s outward appearance is totally unrelated at all times to one’s inward ‘appearance?’ Can you cite historical precedent that bears out your claim?

Historical precedent? What?

 

[catharina]

You know that is not very charitable and sounds awful judgmental from your statement. You stated before that you just want us to search our hearts and when we say we have done that then you say “a lot of excuses continue here”. So no I don’t think your message is clear and simple…

Oh…and are you saying that the rest of us do not have faith? I would surely hope not.

It seems that you have jumped to conclusions. Why?

 

[catharina]

Apparently you are unaware that the thrift stores and Goodwill provide jobs for the handicapped and otherwise unemployable so your post makes no sense to me. I patronize them whenever I can to help keep those people employed. The moral high ground you have taken doesn’t help either…another straw man (have we lost count? ) All the things above do not explain why you can not still show respect for the Divine Action that transpires at Mass by respectable dress.

I spent years of my life buying nearly all of my clothes at St. Vincent de Paul’s.
I was rather poor at the time but needed decent clothes and St. Vincent provided them.

I used to thank him profusely for his help in keeping me clothed!

 

[Tigg]

True respect is shown in the heart and mind. It is invisible to those around us.

But NOT invisible to **God **who reads those hearts and understands the true motiviation for why we dress the way we do!

 

[Tigg]

? Do you really think that one’s outward appearance is totally unrelated at all times to one’s inward ‘appearance?’

Thanks, Tantum…this exact point was brought up early on in the thread and was reiterated on several pages - alas…I don’t think anyone is listening.

 

[Sarabande]

Congrats on the pregnancy.

Do you go to Mass during your lunch hour? Someone who does then would have to wear one-three outfits all week… My “uniform” is what I wear to work mostly…I don’t dress down for Mass. But apparently that is not good enough for some people on this thread.

If they are really all that distracted by the sight of dockers then maybe they should be concentrating more on Mass

Thanks!

Well, my work usually consists of working on the weekends and sometimes the evenings due to being a musician. During the day, I’m taking care of a 20 month old and at the moment her sleep/feeding schedule doesn’t correspond with being able to attend mass during the week.

When I did work a normal job, I didn’t technically have a lunch hour (maybe 10-20 min lunch break), so I still would not have been able to attend mass. My work clothes would have sufficed for mass. I worked in at an office where you had to at least be dressed business casual. That said, if I was working out in the field as a geologist, like my husband, I’d have no problem attending mass during the week in my work clothes which usually consist of steel-toed boots, jeans and a shirt. I am a practical person and I know there is not time to change in order to attend a weekday mass on a lunch break. My work clothes (which I have also called my uniform because I’d only wear them for work) were sometimes as “nice” as my church uniform for my musician work and cantor work, but sometimes more casual than my Sunday attire. (I am expected to dress nice as a cantor by my bosses and any of the priests at the numerous parishes where I freelance at.) I’m also not one who has a problem with people wearing dockers or other kinds of clothes to mass as long as it’s clean and modest.

Just my personal opinion, but I just don’t want rear and frontal cleavage and lumps due to really tight clothing or bare skin in places where I shouldn’t be seeing them staring me in the face… not just in church… anywhere.

That said, I still think it’s a decent idea to have at least one church uniform for Sundays, especially for people who don’t have much money to throw around, which is what I was meaning in my post. Many people unfortunately don’t have the luxury or privilege to attend mass during the week, so I wasn’t thinking of it. I personally don’t care if people see me in the same outfit each week or every other week. And if a person’s work attire is also his/her Sunday mass attire, especially if that is his/her best clothing, then that’s fine as well.

I believe most people here are thinking the same way, but I have a feeling some are misunderstanding each other, which is easy to do on a forum. We put into what is written our own background and experiences, including our personalities, even if it has nothing to do with the other person. It’s normal and part of human nature. That’s how we relate and understand the world around us. It would be more ideal to be able to sit face to face and really be able to see a person’s expressions, demeanor, hear the tone and quality of voice. I’m sure that there will be at least one person who reads my posts and will think something totally different than my own intention or read something negative in what I say. That’s fine to a certain extent as it is the nature of the beast when it comes to these kinds of forums. I personally like to try to think the best of others on these forums because of the weaknesses any forum typically presents. I may not always be successful at it, but I think it is the safest and most charitable way.

 

[Sarabande]

Congrats on the pregnancy.

Do you go to Mass during your lunch hour? Someone who does then would have to wear one-three outfits all week… My “uniform” is what I wear to work mostly…I don’t dress down for Mass. But apparently that is not good enough for some people on this thread.

If they are really all that distracted by the sight of dockers then maybe they should be concentrating more on Mass

Thanks!

Well, my work usually consists of working on the weekends and sometimes the evenings due to being a musician. During the day, I’m taking care of a 20 month old and at the moment her sleep/feeding schedule doesn’t correspond with being able to attend mass during the week.

When I did work a normal job, I didn’t technically have a lunch hour (maybe 10-20 min lunch break), so I still would not have been able to attend mass. My work clothes would have sufficed for mass. I worked in at an office where you had to at least be dressed business casual. That said, if I was working out in the field as a geologist, like my husband, I’d have no problem attending mass during the week in my work clothes which usually consist of steel-toed boots, jeans and a shirt. I am a practical person and I know there is not time to change in order to attend a weekday mass on a lunch break. My work clothes (which I have also called my uniform because I’d only wear them for work) were sometimes as “nice” as my church uniform for my musician work and cantor work, but sometimes more casual than my Sunday attire. (I am expected to dress nice as a cantor by my bosses and any of the priests at the numerous parishes where I freelance at.) I’m also not one who has a problem with people wearing dockers or other kinds of clothes to mass as long as it’s clean and modest.

Just my personal opinion, but I just don’t want rear and frontal cleavage and lumps due to really tight clothing or bare skin in places where I shouldn’t be seeing them staring me in the face… not just in church… anywhere.

That said, I still think it’s a decent idea to have at least one church uniform for Sundays, especially for people who don’t have much money to throw around, which is what I was meaning in my post. Many people unfortunately don’t have the luxury or privilege to attend mass during the week, so I wasn’t thinking of it. I personally don’t care if people see me in the same outfit each week or every other week. And if a person’s work attire is also his/her Sunday mass attire, especially if that is his/her best clothing, then that’s fine as well.

I believe most people here are thinking the same way, but I have a feeling some are misunderstanding each other, which is easy to do on a forum. We put into what is written our own background and experiences, including our personalities, even if it has nothing to do with the other person. It’s normal and part of human nature. That’s how we relate and understand the world around us. It would be more ideal to be able to sit face to face and really be able to see a person’s expressions, demeanor, hear the tone and quality of voice. I’m sure that there will be at least one person who reads my posts and will think something totally different than my own intention or read something negative in what I say. That’s fine to a certain extent as it is the nature of the beast when it comes to these kinds of forums. I personally like to try to think the best of others on these forums because of the weaknesses any forum typically presents. I may not always be successful at it (some people do come across as combative, cold and cruel, etc. in writing even when they don’t mean to), but I think it is the safest and most charitable way.

 

[Sarabande]

My apologies for the double post. I have no idea how that happened.

Just to add… I do know people who only have a couple outfits that they mix and match during the week for work. They did a really good job at making the outfit look a little different with accessories. It taught me how maximize my clothing without spending a fortune. Not saying that everyone must do that, but on a practical level for saving money, it’s a great idea. And if you have a little more money to spend, do it on quality clothing that will last long and withstand fashion trends. When I have been able to do that, it’s so true. My nicer quality clothing have lasted me years. Anyway, just some practical clothing advice… not really pertinent to the subject per say, although can be helpful to those who may want to have nicer clothing for mass, but think they couldn’t afford it or feel that they need to have a whole wardrobe.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

It seems that you have jumped to conclusions. Why?

E knows why. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

My apologies for the double post. I have no idea how that happened.

Just to add… I do know people who only have a couple outfits that they mix and match during the week for work. They did a really good job at making the outfit look a little different with accessories. It taught me how maximize my clothing without spending a fortune. Not saying that everyone must do that, but on a practical level for saving money, it’s a great idea. And if you have a little more money to spend, do it on quality clothing that will last long and withstand fashion trends. When I have been able to do that, it’s so true. My nicer quality clothing have lasted me years. Anyway, just some practical clothing advice… not really pertinent to the subject per say, although can be helpful to those who may want to have nicer clothing for mass, but think they couldn’t afford it or feel that they need to have a whole wardrobe.

I get what you are saying. I think Tantam? had a nice post but the problem is when someone is wearing what they can…or even state that then other posters will still keep saying things that sound like…no that is not good enough. For example, the college student that stops in for the day wearing what they have…or me who stops in for Mass during the week wearing work clothes…which are not sloppy just not super super dressy. or super flashy. Then someone asks why I can’t give the Lord my best:shrug: saying things such as the excuses continue… I just don’t know when it will ever be enough for people.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Annabelle Marie, I take it your priest or local church leaders weren’t quoted in the OP link?

You would be right. Most people dress modest in our church… Our priest seems more concerned about loving your neighbor and examining our heart about sin, etc including the sacraments then about dress.

Of course he doesn’t dress super fancy either under the vestments…or with his shoes (I notice they could use a good polish). Doesn’t change how reverent he is.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Our priest seems more concerned about loving your neighbor and examining our heart about sin, etc including the sacraments then about dress.

Yeah, so are all the priests I know, and everybody on this thread has also stated that. But, as Tigg said, it doesn’t mean that an attitude about presenting ourselves is not also from the heart. It most certainly is.

For example, the college student that stops in for the day wearing what they have…or me who stops in for Mass during the week wearing work clothes…which are not sloppy just not super super dressy. or super flashy. Then someone asks why I can’t give the Lord my best:shrug:

Perhaps some posters addressed you personally. I never asked you

why [you] can’t give the Lord [your] best.

Further, no one has talked about “super flashy” or “super super fancy” except those who keep bringing up the supposed suspicious dispositions of those who choose to dress slightly “up.” The tone of some was of an artificial class warfare (based on an unjustified stereotype) which is contrary to Christian charity.

If other posters claimed that you specifically were not “giving the Lord your best,” then you should address those posters.

saying things such as the excuses continue… I just don’t know when it will ever be enough for people.

and that was also not addressed to you personally.

It would be helpful if you do not personalize absolutely everything that is said on a thread when you individually are not addressed or referred to. The discussion has been both about particulars (at times) and (more often) about generalities and general principles.

 

[curlycool89]

That is internal though. What Elizabeth was referencing specifically was

It is remarkable how relaxed dress standards and relaxed attitudes in church seem to correlate, from my own observation. I’ve noticed more chit-chat before Mass, more people coming in late etc. Maybe when people stop taking dress seriously, they take other parts of the Mass less seriously. Or maybe it is the other way around. Either way, they probably both influence the other, which is why the Mass should be taken seriously, and attire which is befitting of a somber and holy occasion should be worn, lest others be influenced to think (often unconsciously) that Mass deserves the same clothes as watching sunday afternoon football on a couch.

Which is your own opinion, and therefore irrelevant as you can’t prove it.

Most of this discussion has frankly been theoretical, but it’s not an indictment on someone else’s focus to notice things going on during the Mass. People should be careful to not place more importance on an issue than it deserves, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Well then, this has theoretically been a waste of my time.

Finally I’ve seen what others have seen.
I never look, never notice, the clothing of others.

Yet this past Sunday, finally I saw a shocker.
I was waiting after Mass so I could thank the extremely crippled
elderly priest who managed to say Mass for all of us. As a result,
I saw a teen-aged girl leaving Mass with two boys. The boys were
dressed WAY casually, the scruffy type of long shorts, but the girl
(on the plump side) was wearing short shorts - short shorts that were
caught way up her legs due to her plumpness. I didn’t think
I could/would ever see this kind of display - but I did and it shocked me.

She was dressed for the beach - not for church.

Nobody has ever talked about or defended short shorts. That’s why it’s called a straw man.

I do tend to think that servers should wear non-jeans for boys and something similar to girls but the tennis shoes did catch my attention. I felt myself taking notice and going “oh jeez that just looks silly” but then I caught myself and focussed back on the liturgy.

Annnd…? I’ve seen priests with running shoes and jeans under the vestments.

1a Jesus again in reply spoke to them in parables, saying,
2“The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who gave a wedding feast* for his son. 3* He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast, but they refused to come.
4A second time he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those invited: “Behold, I have prepared my banquet, my calves and fattened cattle are killed, and everything is ready; come to the feast.”’
5Some ignored the invitation and went away, one to his farm, another to his business.
6b The rest laid hold of his servants, mistreated them, and killed them.
7* The king was enraged and sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.
8Then he said to his servants, ‘The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come.
9Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.’
10The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike,* and the hall was filled with guests.
11* But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment.
*12He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?’ But he was reduced to silence. 13 c Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ **
14Many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Maybe if you read a bit back in the thread, you would have noticed that this was already brought up and debunked. A better exegesis says that clothing is a symbol for the state of your soul. Also, the last verse (14) doesn’t make any sense if it’s talking about literal clothing. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense if talking about your soul as many are invited to Heaven by the Grace of God, but few are chosen as they have chosen to reject the invitation (cf. Parable of the Goats and Sheep).

Which is one of the reasons why many schools insist upon a dress code. They readily recognize that more casual clothing does not promote an environment for learning - that the “outer” is important for discipline, even of the mind. It sets the tone for a proper attitude regarding self-control.

Never went to a school with a dress code. Graduated near the top of my class with a large university scholarship. Sorry for breaking your theory.

 

[curlycool89]

This has nothing to do with the devotion or faith of those who dress down for Mass. It has simply to do with what is appropriate attire for Mass–nothing more needs to be assumed with this discussion.

The litmus test is simple (imo): What would people wear if they were invited to dinner with the Pope?

If a person would wear a dress or suit to have dinner with the Pope, but they think it is fine to wear jean shorts and a t-shirt to Mass,** then perhaps that person’s priorities are bit off** (just a thought).

I was trying to be kind.

And here’s the judgements against people again. According to Irishpatrick, people who don’t dress well are highly implied to not be good Catholics (and he will inevidibly argue against this assessment because he always does).

Amen, brother. Those of us who are officially unemployed and underemployed still manage to wear our bland “church uniform” whenever we attend Mass, no matter how frequent that attendance is. Even the “starving students” who attend weekday and weekend Masses with me put on their best attire on their limited budgets, which I really respect.

You must be at a richy-rich school then. At my perfectly average university, the only ones dressed in anything more than casual at daily Mass are the professors who attend. The students are wearing modest clothing that you would expect students to wear (and when it’s warm, yes that means shorts).

When I did work a normal job, I didn’t technically have a lunch hour (maybe 10-20 min lunch break), so I still would not have been able to attend mass. My work clothes would have sufficed for mass. I worked in at an office where you had to at least be dressed business casual. That said, if I was working out in the field as a geologist, like my husband, I’d have no problem attending mass during the week in my work clothes which usually consist of steel-toed boots, jeans and a shirt. I am a practical person and I know there is not time to change in order to attend a weekday mass on a lunch break. My work clothes (which I have also called my uniform because I’d only wear them for work) were sometimes as “nice” as my church uniform for my musician work and cantor work, but sometimes more casual than my Sunday attire. (I am expected to dress nice as a cantor by my bosses and any of the priests at the numerous parishes where I freelance at.) I’m also not one who has a problem with people wearing dockers or other kinds of clothes to mass as long as it’s clean and modest.

Finally, someone reasonable.

 

[ChiRho]

Well then, this has theoretically been a waste of my time.

yet you continue posting…

 

[CMatt25]

Looks like you are better than everyone else yet again, CMatt. I mentioned thrift stores for anyone who wasn’t able to afford nice but expensive clothes, obviously.

As with clothing, looks can be deceiving.