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ChiRho
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Agreed. Someone can be almost deceptively well dressed for a low price
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CMatt25
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There are plenty of poor and less fortunate than I to patronize them and who are in more need. So I personally simply make a choice to not shop @ Goodwill for that reason. I don’t want to take away something that someone else less fortunate than me could use. If you on the otherhand want to shop there for your reasons, that’s fine. But please do not judge my respect for Jesus based on my dress. Thanks.Apparently you are unaware that the thrift stores and Goodwill provide jobs for the handicapped and otherwise unemployable so your post makes no sense to me. I patronize them whenever I can to help keep those people employed. The moral high ground you have taken doesn’t help either…another straw man (have we lost count?) All the things above do not explain why you can not still show respect for the Divine Action that transpires at Mass by respectable dress.
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CMatt25
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:clapping: Exactly Annabelle Marie. It makes no sense on the one hand to tell us all that is wanted is for us to examine and judge ourselves. That oh no they supposedly are not judging us. No no no. Of course not. BUT then afterwards to continue to rail against what we wear.
Or someone I think mentioned judgment can be erroneous. Sure anyone’s can.But since clothing does not determine faith and the heart’s respect, I too surely hope the poster was not saying that! Just as everyone being dressed in a certain manner should not be a prerequisite for witnessing as a community of worship. God bless you Annabelle Marie. Peace.
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curlycool89
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That was called sarcasm. There are other posters besides you who are not just discussing this in theory, but actually passing real judgement on people (see my post above for an example).
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CMatt25
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Yes or dressed less well that you and others here prefer and yet respect Jesus and have a heart of gold so to speak. That’s why it is best to leave it to God to determine. And for the dressier to not attempt to determine or make general conclusions about the heart and respect of a more casual dresser. You just might not be accurate. And I think this is also why many of us have spent time on this thread attempting to explain these points. God bless!
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ChiRho
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If this thread were about whether or not to wash your hair or brush your teeth or wear deodorant, the responses in this thread would be in unison and no one would find the recommendation to come to Church caring for these things an undue burden; but since it has to do with clothing, also something outward and not essential, they are not
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Elizabeth502
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You will not find a single post of mine which “railed against” what anyone here personally wears. Not a one.
So you can stop looking for reasons to misrepresent me which are not evident from my posts. I thought you were the one so interested in “not judging” and in Christian charity? Hmm. It seems that those on this thread who are lecturing so much about that may want to examine not only why they are so hostile to what “Church leaders” (= topic of thread) suggest about Catholic attitudes toward Mass attire, but also their own attitudes and relentless accusations toward their CAF neighbors’ intentions as well.
Perhaps that would be another thing to take a look at.
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catharina
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Yes - the tone has dropped into a valley. Awful.You will not find a single post of mine which “railed against” what anyone here personally wears. Not a one.
So you can stop looking for reasons to misrepresent me which are not evident from my posts. I thought you were the one so interested in “not judging” and in Christian charity? Hmm. It seems that those on this thread who are lecturing so much about that may want to examine not only why they are so hostile to what “Church leaders” (= topic of thread) suggest about Catholic attitudes toward Mass attire, but also their own attitudes and relentless accusations toward their CAF neighbors’ intentions as well.
Perhaps that would be another thing to take a look at.
How can it be a problem when folks agree with Church leaders???
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Annabelle_Marie
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I don’t know about that…I kind of find clothing essential
I sure hope everyone else does too
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CMatt25
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LOL nice try but it is me, Annabelle Marie and several others who are the ones posting articles of clothing and footwear that we wear which do not appear to meet YOUR standards for Mass attire. You’re the one who said to examine ourselves. And lets see I’ve seen you make comments about jeans and tee shirts, beach wear, gym wear…You will not find a single post of mine which “railed against” what anyone here personally wears. Not a one.
So you can stop looking for reasons to misrepresent me which are not evident from my posts. I thought you were the one so interested in “not judging” and in Christian charity? Hmm. It seems that those on this thread who are lecturing so much about that may want to examine not only why they are so hostile to what “Church leaders” (= topic of thread) suggest about Catholic attitudes toward Mass attire, but also their own attitudes and relentless accusations toward their CAF neighbors’ intentions as well.
Perhaps that would be another thing to take a look at.
And I wear shorts and a tee shirt and gym sneakers to church. Annabelle Marie wears jeans.
Also Annabelle Marie has stated her church leaders weren’t among the church leaders quoted in the OP and that her priest has other concerns than this.
So just a suggestion since you are making yours. Perhaps those lecturing about attire may want to examine attiudes too and may want to take another look at their posts.
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Annabelle_Marie
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I don’t know where you got that every thing was addressed about you:shrug: Maybe you should not taken things personally as well…Yeah, so are all the priests I know, and everybody on this thread has also stated that. But, as Tigg said, it doesn’t mean that an attitude about presenting ourselves is not also from the heart. It most certainly is.
I just wish people would realize that you presenting yourself from your heart might be different then someone else presenting themselves from their heart…
Perhaps some posters addressed you personally. I never asked you
I don’t recall saying you especially did…
Further, no one has talked about “super flashy” or “super super fancy” except those who keep bringing up the supposed suspicious dispositions of those who choose to dress slightly “up.” The tone of some was of an artificial class warfare (based on an unjustified stereotype) which is contrary to Christian charity.
I think there is enough lack of Christian charity on both sides. And yes some people have talked about your BEST! SUPER SUPER BEST! Even when I agreed with Tantum…other people still have to pipe up and push it further. By the way…every one should go back and read that post…there is something to be learned on both sides I think.
If other posters claimed that you specifically were not “giving the Lord your best,” then you should address those posters.
Which I did and they responded and then you patted them on the back for that…
and that was also not addressed to you personally.
It would be helpful if you do not personalize absolutely everything that is said on a thread when you individually are not addressed or referred to. The discussion has been both about particulars (at times) and (more often) about generalities and general principles.
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CMatt25
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I have very oily hair. I could easily shampoo it daily. I often do but once in awhile I will skip a day. So I couldn’t drop in to worship with a Catholic community at Mass on those days? Well maybe at AnnaBelle Marie’s parish I’d be welcome skipping a shampoo. I also just saw a poll this wk saying 20% of men do not use shampoo or deodorant. So they would not be welcomed in a Catholic worship community either?
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Annabelle_Marie
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Let’s look at all the quote from Church leaders in the article…for fun…
"The deacon was distributing the Holy Communion to some of his 3,000-member-strong parish in Forest Hill, N.Y., when he was faced with a young woman in a shirt bearing the restaurant’s distinctive logo. He kept quiet as they came face-to-face, but later sent out a series of gentle reminders to the congregation.
Among them, this bulletin announced, “BRITNEY SPEARS CONCERT CANCELLED… Modest church-going attire will do nicely. We will notify you if the situation changes.”
“I’ll say it from the pulpit,” Rev. Pilcher declares. “This isn’t the camper’s mass, this isn’t the hunter’s mass, it’s the Holy Mass.”
“Just this past Sunday, two women came to communion– and it wasn’t quite Hooters shirts, but it was close,” Rev. Beck says, “I thought, this is just not correct.”
“People can be neat and comfortable, just not sloppy and overly suggestive.”
Rev. Beck sums it up this way: “Casual comfort is not a bad thing – I don’t think the liturgy has to be overly formalized, but there is a line between comfortable and inappropriate.”
Perhaps Rev. Pilcher makes the most economic argument. Dress nicely, he says, “we are putting on these clothes to see our King.”
Modest, comfortable, and clean…how are any of us arguing against that? But I fail to see how dockers or even jeans goes against anything these leaders have said. But even with that in mind…it’s what a few priests have said…but what matters just as much to me is what my priest would have to say about it. Probably the same thing…modest, comfortable, and clean…and I don’t think the jeans I might occasionally wear fall outside that.
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ChiRho
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Once again, you fail to understand the difference between a generalized statement and an absolute statement, and also the difference between recommending something and requiring it.
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Elizabeth502
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I never commented on CAF members’ particular clothing in this thread. That is a mischaracterization of all of my posts, individually and together, and actually you know that, and know better than to misrepresent me. I commented on voiced attitudes (toward clothing, and toward pleas and suggestions from the appointed leaders of your Roman Catholic Church, which although is not visible in your identity, you admit on this thread that you belong to and attend Mass).
I questioned attitudes which fail to distinguish a significant difference between everyday occasions and the occasion of the Mass, and the inexplicable anger and defiance of those who do not wish to distinguish these different occasions and are anywhere from annoyed to outraged that their Church leaders would suggest a distinction, and that Catholic brothers and sisters would dare to respect and agree with those pleas by Church leaders. I addressed the attitudes, not the clothing. If you and anyone else on the thread felt truly fine with your own clothing, you would not have spent pages defending the particular pieces of clothing and demanding approval for those particular items. You would be at peace about it instead of constantly engaging in repetitive arguments.
I will quote what ChiRho just said:
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Annabelle_Marie
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FALSE! False assumption. My concern is for my fellow members of the Body of Christ. When they do what they can or what they feel called to do and are looked down upon at Mass or have something brought up to them by some people (however well meaning it may be) then it can have the affect of wounding some people. As I stated several posts ago…look at that couple where the wife was dressed fine but some lady felt the need to give her a flyer on what SHE thought appropriate dress was. That goes above and beyond what the Church is saying and yes even what Church leaders are saying. I quoted some of them above…modest, clean, and presentable…oh yes…can be comfortable.
I for the record could care less what you think about my clothes…but when people start telling a college student who is going to Mass everyday that they should carry a duffle bag to change…then ya…its gotten out of hand…meaning some people are carrying a higher standard then even Church leaders are.
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catharina
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Why is the above quote addressed to me?
I’ve never mentioned jeans or dockers.
In fact, I wear athletic shoes on nearly all occasions since I have
rheumatoid arthritis and I have to wear them. On really healthy days,
I wear clogs. Why are you talking to me about jeans and dockers???
Here’s what I said:
Yes - the tone has dropped into a valley. Awful.
How can it be a problem when folks agree with Church leaders???
Why are you making my post into your issue about jeans?
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catharina
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Do you understand that elizabeth is “a fellow member” of the Body of Christ?
Is she an exception to your stated “concern” and are there others?
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Elizabeth502
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(1) This isn’t Mass. This is a discussion forum.
(2) I haven’t “looked down upon you” on this discussion forum. Perhaps others have. If so, you should address them.
Hmm. (Yeah, we didn’t know that.
)Again with the defiance. I haven’t said anything about your clothes, but your attitude toward the Church statement persists. It’s Church leaders who care about what all of us wear, not specifically you or limited to you. They, like I, made general statements. If they don’t apply to you, no need to be defensive in such a personal way when no one here has gotten personal with you.
Have a nice day, though.
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Rock_Happy
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I was raised to dress up rather than down for church services. The issue was respect and ceremony. That was in an affluent neighborhood. The first time I went to a service in a middle class neighborhood, I was immediately struck by how casual people seemed to be… at first. But then I realized that they were all spotlessly clean and groomed. This was probably just what they had to wear. No worries. It all made sense.
It seems to me that it is appropriate to dress respectfully. That can mean many different things. At a church at a nudist resort, I would expect to be naked, to use an extreme example. In a tropical beach climate, I might expect loose and light clothes. In a Norwegian winter, I would expect a suit and overcoat, or warm clean clothes. At a minimum I would hope that people don’t wear sexually provocative clothing, and that they are as clean and well groomed as possible. But I certainly would not stand in judgment of anyone who cannot afford nice clothing.
It seems to me that it is appropriate to dress respectfully. That can mean many different things. At a church at a nudist resort, I would expect to be naked, to use an extreme example. In a tropical beach climate, I might expect loose and light clothes. In a Norwegian winter, I would expect a suit and overcoat, or warm clean clothes. At a minimum I would hope that people don’t wear sexually provocative clothing, and that they are as clean and well groomed as possible. But I certainly would not stand in judgment of anyone who cannot afford nice clothing.
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