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YoungTradCath
Guest
As an extension of the liturgical Sunday.
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Wiseowl
Guest
Whatever. It’s done on a Saturday. Many Jewish and Catholics traditions are similiar.
That’s not good or bad but actual.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
My point is that when one attends an anticipated Mass on Saturday, the Mass for that Saturday is not being celebrated, but the Mass for Sunday. It is essentially as if it is Sunday, because liturgically speaking, it is.
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The_Wizard
Guest
Yes, he is a baptized Catholic but like many of us that grow up in the 1950’s and 60’s both he and I were poorly catechized. He “met Jesus” when he was in college (1969-73) though someone from Campus Crusade. And not having a real good understanding of Catholic teachings fell for the simple message Campus Crusade puts out. And yes he does have alot of “Protestant ideas”. Although he is an engineer he constantly says he isn’t smart enough to understand “all that theological stuff”.
I, on the other hand, when confronted with statements/ideas/treachings that were different than the ones I was taught in Catholic grammar school would look into what Thee Chruch really taught. And I came to realize that The Church really dis have authority here on earth.
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OraLabora
Guest
The Jewish Sabbath starts at Sundown Friday and ends Saturday night. The liturgical observation of Sunday starts at sundown Saturday night and ends at midnight Sunday night.
That sure sounds like a different day to me, although there may be a short overlap between the two on Saturday evening. We can agree though that both traditions keep a day holy (so too do Muslims, on Friday).
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
Well, that explains that. Campus Crusade are VERY anti-Catholic and will attack any aspect of Catholicism in their targets (vulnerable students). Your friend has walked off the reservation and is only a very marginal Catholic. Would he read some very basic apologetic texts? Since he considers himself a Christian, you can skip C.S. Lewis and go straight to the Catholic stuff. But expect resistance from someone who was indoctrinated by Campus Crusade.
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Wiseowl
Guest
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The_Wizard
Guest
That is why I called him a sometime Catholic or should it have been a something Catholic. He agrees with The Church on somethings but not others. According to him all he needs is the Bible (Ya, I know) and the Holy Spirit will guide him to what he needs to know. That and he keeps say he just is not smart enough to understand all that theological stuff. Beside all that stuff is man made and not of God. Which is part of his disagreement about The Church’s rule about going to mass on Sunday.Well, that explains that. Campus Crusade are VERY anti-Catholic and will attack any aspect of Catholicism in their targets (vulnerable students). Your friend has walked off the reservation and is only a very marginal Catholic. Would he read some very basic apologetic texts? Since he considers himself a Christian, you can skip C.S. Lewis and go straight to the Catholic stuff. But expect resistance from someone who was indoctrinated by Campus Crusade.
One more time. Let us get back on track. Saturday verse Sunday belongs on another tread!
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FaithInTheSon
Guest
There is a middle ground here.
The Church is not just “making it a mortal sin”.
If not going to Mass for a Catholic = not honoring the Sabbath then not going to Mass = sin.
We are told to honor the Sabbath. If the way you do that is by going to Mass then it is a sin to intentionally not be there. A logical conclusion to draw.
If I am not at Mass on Sunday I do still try to honor the Sabbath. I have failed before and I am sorry for that.
If you go to Mass and then go to work after, this could be interpreted as not honoring the Sabbath as well.
The Church is not just “making it a mortal sin”.
If not going to Mass for a Catholic = not honoring the Sabbath then not going to Mass = sin.
We are told to honor the Sabbath. If the way you do that is by going to Mass then it is a sin to intentionally not be there. A logical conclusion to draw.
If I am not at Mass on Sunday I do still try to honor the Sabbath. I have failed before and I am sorry for that.
If you go to Mass and then go to work after, this could be interpreted as not honoring the Sabbath as well.
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Wiseowl
Guest
Catholic’s celebrate Mass on Saturday.
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Moore11
Guest
No no no no.
I have no idea where you are getting these ideas but please stop presenting them as truth.
You can work after Mass or before Mass. many do
You cannot “honor the sabbath another way” that is not Mass.
Please stop this.
If that is your opinion then you have every right to it but it is not Catholic.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Yes, that is the standard response most people give, but it’s really just a red herring.
I think it’s just the modern aversion to “obligations”. We seem to think that obligation is a dirty word. But that’s simply not true.
I have obligations to my children. I am obligated to give them food every single day. If I didn’t live up to this obligation, the State would legitimately get involved and I would be punished.
If the only reason I am feeding my children is because I have an obligation to do so, what kind of father am I? If I only go to Mass because I have an obligation to do so, what kind of son am I? We should absolutely do both out of genuine love. But that doesn’t mean they’re still not obligatory.
People seem to have the impression that the Church just makes up arbitrary rules to keep the masses under their thumb. That’s not what the Church is doing. She recognizes what we need and outlines the things we should do to get there.
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OraLabora
Guest
We may celebrate the Sunday Mass on Saturday evening following the Jewish custom of beginning the liturgical day the previous evening. Technically for Catholics, Sunday begins liturgically after First Vespers (evening prayer I) on Saturday evening, or the previous evening on solemnities. This is not, liturgically, a Saturday Mass. Saturday Mass is weekday Mass and doesn’t count towards the Sunday obligation.
Moreover the requirement to keep the day holy applies to Sunday for Catholics and Saturday for Jews.
I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand about this. It’s Liturgy 101…
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FaithInTheSon
Guest
The scripture in my Catholic Parish edition says that you work 6 days and rest on the 7th. This is part of honoring the Sabbath.
I don’t know how I could manage to get that wrong.
Furthermore I think what you mean is “Catholics cannot honor the Sabbath any other way than Mass” which is false. You can theoretically make it a requirement for honoring the Sabbath but you can not make it the only way to do so.
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
Yup, I certainly do. It’s Marketing 101 - create a need, then fill it.
And promises eternity in the fiery furnace if we don’t follow her rules. Nice.
Occasional visits to threads like this reaffirm the correctness of my decision to leave Catholicism.
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Moore11
Guest
I dont know how you could either but you did.
I suggest you search this site to find threads about what the 7th day was and is, what the sabbath is, why we have to go to Mass, what mortal sin is, salvation outside the Church, and why we have to go to Mass.
yes you can honor other ways than the Mass, but not in place of the Mass.
Again, please stop derailing and find threads on these topics.
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FaithInTheSon
Guest
Please listen brother! The Catholic Church is the MAIN target of Satan. What does that tell you? If you do not have a personal relationship with the Lord even a priest in the Catholic Church can and will lead you astray sometimes. This is not intentional this is the work of Satan.
Please reconsider your decision to leave the Church. Questioning the Church on what they say is definitely a wise decision. Leaving the Church is not. If it’s broke don’t fight it fix it. I’m not saying its broke, I’m saying you believe it is. So try to fix it. Maybe in the end you discover there is nothing to fix at all, just an enemy to fight.
Yes many Catholics act like you will go to hell if this or that. They forget that the Lord knows what is in our hearts as individuals and judges us on an individual basis. The Church’s OFFICIAL opinion is that they can never say for certain if a soul is in Hell, including the ones who dissent from the Church.
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Wiseowl
Guest
Nothing to get defensive about. Catholics celebrate Mass on Saturday, all the asterisks does not change that. It’s not like Catholic have a monopoly on the Sabbath day.
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FaithInTheSon
Guest
You have personally attacked me from the beginning. You just said “You cannot honor the Sabbath in other ways”. Then you say “yes you can honor other ways than Mass, but not in place of mass.”
I know what the 7th day is I READ THE BIBLE. That should be obvious by now. It is a day of rest and worship. I know what mortal sin is, the Church does not pretend to know who is saved, and I know why we go to mass. I also know that it is not the only way to honor the Sabbath and other measures can be taken. These things can only be done in place of Mass if you cannot attend Mass according to the Church.
Furthermore, it is disrespectful to the Sabbath to work during the Sabbath unless doing spiritually good works such as healing (it is not disrespectful to the Sabbath for a doctor to work for example).
Satan has attacked the Church. It is painfully obvious when a zealot such as yourself does not know that you can’t work on the Sabbath it is a day of rest and worship.
The Church’s teachings are not wrong they are being applied wrong. You are not the first person to show me this.
EDIT: I had to go look this up to make sure I am not wrong abou the Catholic teaching and I am not. The Sabbath is not broken if the work is out of necessity or charity. Otherwise it is still, in this day, unlawful to work during the sabbath.
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OraLabora
Guest
Of course you can. If for legitimate reasons one cannot attend Mass on Sunday, one still has the obligation to try to keep the day holy through prayer, avoiding unnecessary work, etc.
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