Supporting President Bush

[josephdavid]

I wonder why majority of Christians support Bush. I sometimes can not help to have a this theory based on the sole issue of abortion.

I can not support him just because of the abortion issue. I believe in following Christ and his commands as a whole not pick and choose.

I do consider myself a Democrat but I will not whole hardly support a candidate who supports abortion

 

[dhgray]

josephdavid:

I wonder why majority of Christians support Bush. I sometimes can not help to have a this theory based on the sole issue of abortion.

I can not support him just because of the abortion issue. I believe in following Christ and his commands as a whole not pick and choose.

I do consider myself a Democrat but I will not whole hardly support a candidate who supports abortion

He’s the lesser of the two evils

 

[qmvsimp]

You all have some good points, but let’s stick to the five non-negotiable issues in the Voter’s guide. Bush meets them all. Beyond that, Catholics are entitled to differing opinions.

 

[Agricola]

qmvsimp:

You all have some good points, but let’s stick to the five non-negotiable issues in the Voter’s guide. Bush meets them all. Beyond that, Catholics are entitled to differing opinions.

Can you tell me where to get a copy of this voter’s guide? … there’s a Canadian election coming up.

As for Bush, I have a lot of respect for the guy, and yes, it really is due greatly to his stance on life issues (abortion, contraception, stem cell research, etc.). For me, life issues trump all else, because it is hard to have any of the other rights or benefits without life.

God bless,

Agricola

 

[tamccrackine]

josephdavid:

I wonder why majority of Christians support Bush. I sometimes can not help to have a this theory based on the sole issue of abortion.

I can not support him just because of the abortion issue. I believe in following Christ and his commands as a whole not pick and choose.

I do consider myself a Democrat but I will not whole hardly support a candidate who supports abortion

Maybe I am misunderstanding you here… but you initially state a question as to why Christians support Bush and you believe it’s because of abortion. Then you say you can’t support him because of the abortion issue and even continue with the statement that you won’t support a candidate who supports abortion.

Seeing how Bush is pro-life, I’m a bit confused to your post… can you clarify for me? Thanks!

 

[bones_IV]

3,360 babies are surgically aborted everyday due to abortion.

 

[qmvsimp]

Agricola:

Can you tell me where to get a copy of this voter’s guide? … there’s a Canadian election coming up.

As for Bush, I have a lot of respect for the guy, and yes, it really is due greatly to his stance on life issues (abortion, contraception, stem cell research, etc.). For me, life issues trump all else, because it is hard to have any of the other rights or benefits without life.

God bless,

Agricola

Here it is:

catholic.com/library/voters_guide.asp

 

[bones_IV]

Bush is pro-life with exceptions. Supporting him is not a good idea. If we settle for less than our best than less than our best is just what we are going to get. To say that abortion is an issue, is incorrect. It’s a reality. And it’s non-negotiable! It’s not about voting for someone who advocates abortion 10% nor is about voting for someone who advocates abortion 5%. To support the candidate who is most in line with your beliefs is modernism.

 

[Della]

bones_IV:

Bush is pro-life with exceptions. Supporting him is not a good idea. If we settle for less than our best than less than our best is just what we are going to get. To say that abortion is an issue, is incorrect. It’s a reality. And it’s non-negotiable! It’s not about voting for someone who advocates abortion 10% nor is about voting for someone who advocates abortion 5%. To support the candidate who is most in line with your beliefs is modernism.

I have to disagree with you. If we support candidates that are closest to us on this issue, we get people elected who can do something–even if it’s just a little bit at a time, which is better than nothing or worse if we vote ideologically for someone who hasn’t a snowball’s chance in you-know-where of being elected.

We are in a war. Wars are fought with many battles. With one imperfect candidate we win something we want, and with another we keep someone worse from getting into office. We have to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves in this fight or we will never win the war for life, or win over the hearts and minds of the American voter.

 

[bones_IV]

Della:

I have to disagree with you. If we support candidates that are closest to us on this issue, we get people elected who can do something–even if it’s just a little bit at a time, which is better than nothing or worse if we vote ideologically for someone who hasn’t a snowball’s chance in you-know-where of being elected.

We are in a war. Wars are fought with many battles. With one imperfect candidate we win something we want, and with another we keep someone worse from getting into office. We have to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves in this fight or we will never win the war for life, or win over the hearts and minds of the American voter.

I think you fail to understand that abortion is not an issue. God doesn’t need politics to end abortion. It’s about saving souls. Remaining true to the teachings of the Church and the Magisterium is the only way to end abortion. Not through politics. It’s going to take more than passing a law its going to take conversion of hearts. Just because one votes for the lesser of the two evils, does not one endorses them. Many people are just clueless about this.
I will also add that discouraging abortion is the same thing as saying that murdering someone is bad, but it shouldn’t be illegal.

 

[bones_IV]

I would recommend reading this from usccb.org

faithful citizenship

 

[Della]

bones_IV:

I think you fail to understand that abortion is not an issue. God doesn’t need politics to end abortion. It’s about saving souls. Remaining true to the teachings of the Church and the Magisterium is the only way to end abortion. Not through politics. It’s going to take more than passing a law its going to take conversion of hearts. Just because one votes for the lesser of the two evils, does not one endorses them. Many people are just clueless about this.
I will also add that discouraging abortion is the same thing as saying that murdering someone is bad, but it shouldn’t be illegal.

We were discussing voting not prayer. Of course it will take prayer to end abortion AND contraception AND euthanasia AND a host of other evils, as well, including no fault divorce and the wide spread use of porn in advertising and on TV.

But, as responsible citizens, who have to vote on these issues, and they are issues, we have to use the brains God gave us as well as faith that the ultimate victory will come through the intercession of Our Blessed Lady as well as our own actions, for which we will be answerable to God, which I’m sure you are well aware.

Unless and until the American people are ready to vote for the perfect pro-life candidate it is only prudent to vote for people who will help us work our way towards our goals instead of merely patting ourselves on the back for being pure in our ideals, while nothing, or worse, gets done in the meantime to stop these horrors.

 

[David_Paul]

Look at Bush’s judges. Kerry’s first pick for SCOTUS was reported to have been Charles Schumer–another justice in the mold of Ginsberg and Breyer but even more extreme.

The left wants tax-payer funded on-demand abortion if it can get it. Partial birth abortions would be illegal today were it not for the Democratic Party.

Look who fought for Terri Schiavo’s life. It wasn’t the Democratic party.

Consider who complained to the IRS last year about comments made by Catholic priests: Democrats. Barry Lynn and others sought to have the church’s tax exempt status yanked.

Consider who files one lawsuit after the next to censor the free exercise of religion in America–Democrats.

Consider what industries (sleaze merchants) fund the ACLU and People for the American Way–both of which constantly attack the faith.

Delegates to Democratic Convention in 2000 stood up, booed and turned their backs when members of the Boy Scouts of America came on stage. Not an adult nor a charitable thing to do. What upset them? The BSA mentions God in the pledge and will not accept those who are openly homosexuals into its ranks.

The largest donor to any political party in American history is George Soros. He gave Kerry over $25 million in 2004. What does other things does Soros fund? “Catholics for a Free Choice” and “Project on Death in America” among other things.

The other top DNC donors have similiar views. Peter Lewis is pro-abortion and pro-drug. Fred Eychaner gives the party millions to promote the gay agenda.

He who pays the piper calls the tune. The ones paying the Democratic Party are all pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage and anti free expression of faith in the public square.

 

[bones_IV]

Voting for the lesser of the two evils is not the same as supporting them.

 

[bones_IV]

Della:

We were discussing voting not prayer. Of course it will take prayer to end abortion AND contraception AND euthanasia AND a host of other evils, as well, including no fault divorce and the wide spread use of porn in advertising and on TV.

But, as responsible citizens, who have to vote on these issues, and they are issues, we have to use the brains God gave us as well as faith that the ultimate victory will come through the intercession of Our Blessed Lady as well as our own actions, for which we will be answerable to God, which I’m sure you are well aware.

Unless and until the American people are ready to vote for the perfect pro-life candidate it is only prudent to vote for people who will help us work our way towards our goals instead of merely patting ourselves on the back for being pure in our ideals, while nothing, or worse, gets done in the meantime to stop these horrors.

Since when is being loyal to the Church’s Magisterium and Teaching all about prayer? It isn’t. Why is being pure in your ideals such a bad thing? President Bush hasn’t saved one baby. I guess Pat Buchanan is a heretic too I guess? Oxymorons who think they can be republican first then Catholic. Doesn’t work that way.

 

[bones_IV]

This is not about politics is about prayer and action. Politics doesn’t get anything done.

 

[bones_IV]

Della,
No pro-life group is attempting to find a perfect candidate only a principled one. Pures ideals are those that are in conformity with natural law. We should and in fact are obligated to expect public figures, particularly elected officials, to not only respect natural law but to uphold it even if it means losing. Prudence can never be equated with cowardice, and it is wimpish to excuse those who favor killing certain babies because they were concieved through rape or incest or are described as threatening their mother’s lives simply because one is unwilling to speak out and candidates who honestly believe in the sanctity of human life.
David Paul while you’re tooting your horn about the republican party, not a thing has been done by them in the last 32 years! I got news for you the pro-life movement cannot even defend a so-called partial birth abortion ban without adding a life of the mother exception. David Paul, Della, you call that progress? IT ISN’T.

David Paul, Della you and other so-called catholics are blinded by political power. Much maturing you both have to do. Go back and learn the meaning of those words.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I don’t understand the thinking.

One can support the Democrats or the Republicans. But if you don’t think the Republicans are rigorous enough, then where can you MEANINGFULLY go?

A few years ago, a friend said he didn’t think Bush Sr was conservative enough… so who did he vote for? Why, he voted for Clinton!!!

Why???

I think it went like this: Bush rated a grade of “C” in Conservatism. Whereas Clinton rated a grade of “A” in Liberalism / Socialism.

Sooooo, my friend voted for … the person with the higher letter grade. Clinton!!!

Maybe someone here can explain this thinking.

One commentator thought that voting AGAINST Bush constituted a “protest vote”. One could call that cutting one’s nose off to spite one’s face. I suppose.

Comments, anyone???

 

[tamccrackine]

bones_IV:

Della,
No pro-life group is attempting to find a perfect candidate only a principled one. Pures ideals are those that are in conformity with natural law. We should and in fact are obligated to expect public figures, particularly elected officials, to not only respect natural law but to uphold it even if it means losing. Prudence can never be equated with cowardice, and it is wimpish to excuse those who favor killing certain babies because they were concieved through rape or incest or are described as threatening their mother’s lives simply because one is unwilling to speak out and candidates who honestly believe in the sanctity of human life.
David Paul while you’re tooting your horn about the republican party, not a thing has been done by them in the last 32 years! I got news for you the pro-life movement cannot even defend a so-called partial birth abortion ban without adding a life of the mother exception. David Paul, Della, you call that progress? IT ISN’T.

David Paul, Della you and other so-called catholics are blinded by political power. Much maturing you both have to do. Go back and learn the meaning of those words.

Ok, I’ve read this thread and I still don’t understand why people are confused as to why Christians voted for Bush… I am a devout Catholic and I have become more pro-life while Bush has been in office and I’m proud that there is a president that isn’t afraid to say he’s pro-life. He’s not afraid if someone is offended by his stance. So why should I be?

Bones IV…President Bush is one person. He can take baby steps to try to help the pro-life movement. And he has. Unlike Kerry who OPENLY said he’d support abortion and rode in on the abundantly stupid ideal of “I wouldn’t do it, but I won’t stop someone who does.” and still demanded he be allowed to receive Communion because he held a “personal opinion”. (just go ahead and let your friend commit suicide why don’t ya?) I support Bush because he stands on his principle and upholds it. Kerry would have just let abortion keep on trucking and what type of discussion would this be then?

There have been people TRYING since Roe v Wade was passed to stop abortion. Unfortunately, this country is so warped (yes, warped) up in its thinking that an abortion is the answer to a “crisis pregnancy”, it’s going to take alot to get the paradigm to shift. Just because Bush hasn’t met YOUR definition of success to abolish abortion, doesn’t mean he’s been a failure. For goodness sake he’s gotten partial birth abortion strictly regulated… a whole lot better than ANYTHING Clinton did or Kerry would have done.

It’s a start…we’ve got the “if it feels good, do it” generation to get over and you’re starting to see that in the younger generation being more pro-life. I’m excited as to what the future holds for my children. The hold the feminazi’s have had on our country, trying to force the stupid idea that women need abortion “just in case” so “she doesn’t feel like she’s forced into parenthood”, and once that ridiculous idea can get broken, we can teach the young girls’ what is true. I’m thankful the science is now proving what abortion really is and Post Abortion syndrome is being discussed alot more.

If you are pro-life… what are you doing to uphold those values? instead of trying to blame Bush for what you see as failure, what are you doing? We can all start by teaching our children to be pro-life.

I’m off my soapbox…

 

[bones_IV]

tamccrackine:

Ok, I’ve read this thread and I still don’t understand why people are confused as to why Christians voted for Bush… I am a devout Catholic and I have become more pro-life while Bush has been in office and I’m proud that there is a president that isn’t afraid to say he’s pro-life. He’s not afraid if someone is offended by his stance. So why should I be?

Bones IV…President Bush is one person. He can take baby steps to try to help the pro-life movement. And he has. Unlike Kerry who OPENLY said he’d support abortion and rode in on the abundantly stupid ideal of “I wouldn’t do it, but I won’t stop someone who does.” and still demanded he be allowed to receive Communion because he held a “personal opinion”. (just go ahead and let your friend commit suicide why don’t ya?) I support Bush because he stands on his principle and upholds it. Kerry would have just let abortion keep on trucking and what type of discussion would this be then?

There have been people TRYING since Roe v Wade was passed to stop abortion. Unfortunately, this country is so warped (yes, warped) up in its thinking that an abortion is the answer to a “crisis pregnancy”, it’s going to take alot to get the paradigm to shift. Just because Bush hasn’t met YOUR definition of success to abolish abortion, doesn’t mean he’s been a failure. For goodness sake he’s gotten partial birth abortion strictly regulated… a whole lot better than ANYTHING Clinton did or Kerry would have done.

It’s a start…we’ve got the “if it feels good, do it” generation to get over and you’re starting to see that in the younger generation being more pro-life. I’m excited as to what the future holds for my children. The hold the feminazi’s have had on our country, trying to force the stupid idea that women need abortion “just in case” so “she doesn’t feel like she’s forced into parenthood”, and once that ridiculous idea can get broken, we can teach the young girls’ what is true. I’m thankful the science is now proving what abortion really is and Post Abortion syndrome is being discussed alot more.

If you are pro-life… what are you doing to uphold those values? instead of trying to blame Bush for what you see as failure, what are you doing? We can all start by teaching our children to be pro-life.

I’m off my soapbox…

I don’t waste time blaming Bush if that’s what you’re accusing me of doing. Your definition of those who stick to pure ideals are those who blame president Bush? That’s your best arguement? Get real. I’m not a pure idealist who sits on his dias playing the blame game. Another fallacious arguement. Evidently you don’t understand what it means to be pro-life do you? How can you say Bush is pro-life when he says that babies should be aborted in cases of rape, incest or of the mother dying? That is not pro-life tomccrakine. Not even close. Nothing has been done. I’m not trying to sound negative, just being truthful. Get involved in a pro-life organization for one thing. It’s called being part of the solution. If you allow the pro-life with exception candidates to live in their delusions you are only further causing them to sin. Which is scandalous. Partial birth abortion regulations did not save one baby tomccrakine. Yet again, your just trying to excuse candidates who show cowardice on issues like abortion when they say a baby can be aborted when it comes to rape ect…
This is not about political power.