Supreme Court gives Obama second big health care win in ruling upholding nationwide subsidies

[stinkcat_14]

When did I say medicare works so well? Please don’t put words into my mouth, stinkcat. I’m busy enough as it is dealing with the smears and demonizations from other posters without having to deal with that tactic as well.

Ishii

So if it is an inefficient single payer program, why would people be fine with that program and be against single payer for everyone else? I mean it is clear that it is a bad program, then why support it?

 

[styrgwillidar]

Scalia nailed it.

Yep, it will be interesting to see how lower courts now rule on cases if they also decide to disregard:

““[T]he plain, obvious, and rational meaning of a statute is always to be preferred to any curious, narrow, hidden sense that nothing but the exigency of a hard case and the ingenuity and study of an acute and powerful intellect would discover.” Lynch v. Alworth-Stephens Co., 267 U. S. 364, 370 (1925) (internal quotation marks omitted.)”

So, will lower courts feel free to disregard the plain obvious, and rational meaning of the statutes brought before them? Will they feel just as free to decide what legislators at state and federal levels REALLY meant vice what they passed into law in the written words us lesser being have to abide by?

Good times ahead…

 

[styrgwillidar]

Sad to see so many catholics lose their sense of charity.

Ishii

Well, that’s kind of the core of the issue, not in terms of charity in discussion but in terms of giving and receiving charity. As we put the government in charge of re-distributing wealth to take care of the needy, there is less of a connection to them. There can be less of a sense of obligation to personally provide charity once it’s seen as ‘government’s job’, offloading it to ‘government’ and losing sight of where government’s money comes from. Taking money from future generations isn’t charity, the fruits of their labor aren’t mine to dispense as I see it. Further, those receiving it as an ‘entitlement’ do not see it as the contribution of their neighbors or the fruit of someone else’s labor. Saying, the government should provide this to me loses sight of it isn’t the government ultimately providing it to you. People lose that sense of gratitude, appreciation. I never, ever, want to be a burden on my kids, I don’t want them spending their hard earned resources on me as I get older. I think expecting that is putting an unfair claim on them.

 

[grotto]

Laugh and be happy to those who think they were just handed a great deal! Everything Obama attempts will fail and the American people will suffer. Stock up on your own bandaids and aspirin. It is going to be ridiculous!

 

[Sy_Noe]

Maybe that’s because there were only three dissenting votes. There are nine Supreme Court justices.

Later today I will be visiting a friend in the hospital who is very close to death from an extremely deadly and rare form of breast cancer. When she was diagnosed, one of her first comments to us was, “Thank God for Obamacare. With it I’ll still die, but at least my DH won’t be bankrupt after my death.” Both she and her husband are free-lance graphic designers and before the ACA the insurance they could afford would have paid for only a very small portion of their expenses. She’s on her fifty-somethingth day in the hospital from complications caused by her treatments. She probably would not have lived this long without the ACA.

If we’re really so concerned with the impact providing health care to our citizens will have on the deficit, perhaps we should give some consideration to not invading countries that have not harmed us and not funding wars while giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans.

Book Worm, first allow me to offer my prayers to your dear friend. My heart just goes out to her. And indeed I join her in thanking God for Obamacare. Secondly, it are posts like this one of yours that keep a little hope alive for me. Nothing more needs to be said. You said it all right here. And I join Al in saying thanks for sharing. God bless.

 

[Path_Finder]

Laugh and be happy to those who think they were just handed a great deal! Everything Obama attempts will fail and the American people will suffer. Stock up on your own bandaids and aspirin. It is going to be ridiculous!

 

[openmind77]

Medicare spending this year (so far) 951 billion
Social Security spending this year (so far) 873 billion
Defense spending this year (so far) 591 billion
Income security this year (so far) 301 billion*
Interest on the debt this year (so far) 245 billion

• Income security is Supplemental SSI, Earned Income credits, Unemployment Insurance, Nutrition Assistance, Family Support, Child Nutrition, Foster Care, Making Work Pay.

Our entitlement programs far outstrip defense spending, and note CBO now categorizes the interest on our debt as the 5th largest expenditure in the budget. (6th is federal pensions) Entitlement programs are considered non-discretionary spending right now, defense is discretionary and easier to cut. You can’t just cut entitlements in the budget bills as there are other laws mandating the funding levels-- you have to change those laws.

Every developed country including some marginal ones like Brazil can afford to pay for healthcare for All its citizens.

Except of course the richest country in world.

You can explain your objections to government paying for healthcare for everyone to Jesus when he returns. I am sure He will be impressed with your fiscal responsibility.

 

[bibcat]

Laugh and be happy to those who think they were just handed a great deal! Everything Obama attempts will fail and the American people will suffer. Stock up on your own bandaids and aspirin. It is going to be ridiculous!

Of course it will fail. The entire private, employer-based health insurance system is on very thin ice. The ACA is a desperate attempt to prop it up, but it can’t succeed in the long run.

 

[unstoppable_II]

…
Except of course the richest country in world.
…

Before the courts are through with the inevitable lawsuits sure to follow, the “richest country in the world” will be paying for the health care for the whole planet.

When Jesus comes again, perhaps you can explain why the federal government paid for someone to count dogs in Oxnard, and to measure the speed of running shrimp.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Every developed country including some marginal ones like Brazil can afford to pay for healthcare for All its citizens.

Except of course the richest country in world.

You can explain your objections to government paying for healthcare for everyone to Jesus when he returns. I am sure He will be impressed with your fiscal responsibility.

 

[Murmurs]

I don’t hate the president, I hate what he (and those on the left) are doing to this country. Interesting to note that liberal catholics deal with disagreement by demonizing those with whom they disagree - calling them haters of the poor, wanting the poor to rot and die, worshipers of mammon. When conservatives disagree they generally say, “I disagree with you for these reasons” , but when liberal disagree they say, “you hate the poor, you’re a racist, etc.” Sad to see so many catholics lose their sense of charity.

Ishii

This isn’t directed at you personally, Ishii, but words like “socialist” and “communist” get banded around a lot by conservatives (including plenty of Catholics) when they want to demonise Obama or others on the relative left. There is equal fault (and equal graciousness) on both sides of this…

 

[styrgwillidar]

Every developed country including some marginal ones like Brazil can afford to pay for healthcare for All its citizens.

Except of course the richest country in world.

You can explain your objections to government paying for healthcare for everyone to Jesus when he returns. I am sure He will be impressed with your fiscal responsibility.

I have a clear conscience. How can you say a country is rich when it is this heavily in debt? Would you classify yourself as rich if you owed 4 to 5 times your annual income, and were going into debt at 1 and half times your income every year?

A lot of ways to tackle the health care issue. Including treating it like auto insurance and allow more open competition, providing individuals the same tax benefits as companies for purchasing it, lowering training requirements for medical personnel, government subsidizing facilities or personnel etc. etc. etc.

No idea how other countries are doing it, for the US to do it we have to radically revise either the federal spending, the federal income or (most likely) both. Stimulating the economy to produce more jobs would certainly be a help. Lot’s of factors, and it won’t be simple. As you said, we keep believing we’re the world’s policeman, country re-builder and peacemaker-- that costs.

As I’ve said before— I know I’ll personally have to pay more as well as have my benefits reduced. Despite all the lovely promises from my government. Not fair, but life never is. We can’t keep going this way. And frankly, I’m not paying for anything if we just keep piling the debt on, nothing noble about forcing folks in the future to pay for stuff we’re using now.

 

[Murmurs]

Before the courts are through with the inevitable lawsuits sure to follow, the “richest country in the world” will be paying for the health care for the whole planet.

When Jesus comes again, perhaps you can explain why the federal government paid for someone to count dogs in Oxnard, and to measure the speed of running shrimp.

Way to go to pick two random examples of something superficially useless. But remember that most advances come on the back of sometimes quite unrelated research (like antibiotics or microwave ovens) - you can’t always judge research grants on the immediate utility of the study (but I will agree, that, fascinating and delicious as shrimp are, I’m not sure what we gain by knowing how fast they run)

 

[styrgwillidar]

Laugh and be happy to those who think they were just handed a great deal! Everything Obama attempts will fail and the American people will suffer. Stock up on your own bandaids and aspirin. It is going to be ridiculous!

To say it fails you have to understand what the goal of the effort was in the first place.

But stocking up is always a good idea, particularly towards the end of the fiscal year. In both universal systems I was part of many of the supplies/services were unavailable from the single payer then— the money had run out.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Universal Healthcare in this country is not possible because so many Catholics hate the President more than they want to make universal healthcare possible.

Much the same way,abortion will never be obliterated until Dems.hate abortion more than they do republicans.This includes Catholics.Disclaimer:credit goes to EstesBob for this statement.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Every developed country including some marginal ones like Brazil can afford to pay for healthcare for All its citizens.

Except of course the richest country in world.

You can explain your objections to government paying for healthcare for everyone to Jesus when he returns. I am sure He will be impressed with your fiscal responsibility.

Jesus did not tell me to force others to tend the sick, feed the hungry, comfort the bereaved, clothe the naked.

He told me to do it.

 

[unstoppable_II]

Way to go to pick two random examples of something superficially useless. But remember that most advances come on the back of sometimes quite unrelated research (like antibiotics or microwave ovens) - you can’t always judge research grants on the immediate utility of the study (but I will agree, that, fascinating and delicious as shrimp are, I’m not sure what we gain by knowing how fast they run)

Then study this for His second coming.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

Jesus did not tell me to force others to tend the sick, feed the hungry, comfort the bereaved, clothe the naked.

He told me to do it.

Well, by supporting the ACA via paying your taxes, you’ll be doing your part in tending the sick.

Everybody wins!

 

[SWolf]

Well, by supporting the ACA via paying your taxes, you’ll be doing your part in tending the sick.

Everybody wins!

And funding abortion.

Everybody wins!

 

[Al_Moritz]

Jesus did not tell me to force others to tend the sick, feed the hungry, comfort the bereaved, clothe the naked.

He told me to do it.

So you are going to provide healthcare for the needy? Interesting.

I repeat: The Holy Father once said that universal healthcare is a human right:

Pope, church leaders call for guaranteed health care for all people

*Pope Benedict XVI and other church leaders said it was the moral responsibility of nations to guarantee access to health care for all of their citizens, regardless of social and economic status or their ability to pay.

Access to adequate medical attention, the pope said in a written message Nov. 18, was one of the “inalienable rights” of man.*