Supreme Court gives Obama second big health care win in ruling upholding nationwide subsidies

[stinkcat_14]

I have a clear conscience. How can you say a country is rich when it is this heavily in debt? Would you classify yourself as rich if you owed 4 to 5 times your annual income, and were going into debt at 1 and half times your income every year?

Actually, you have to look at both assets and liabilities. For example. it is not uncommon to have companies that have debt equal to 4-5 times their annual earnings.

A lot of ways to tackle the health care issue. Including treating it like auto insurance and allow more open competition, providing individuals the same tax benefits as companies for purchasing it, lowering training requirements for medical personnel, government subsidizing facilities or personnel etc. etc. etc.

No idea how other countries are doing it, for the US to do it we have to radically revise either the federal spending, the federal income or (most likely) both. Stimulating the economy to produce more jobs would certainly be a help. Lot’s of factors, and it won’t be simple. As you said, we keep believing we’re the world’s policeman, country re-builder and peacemaker-- that costs.

Part of the problem is that without raising taxes and without cutting defense, medicare and social security, it is impossible to balance the budget. We will not see a balanced budget as a permanent feature of our economy in our lifetime, regardless of whether republicans or democrats are in charge. The only hope we have is if a democrat is elected and raises taxes and then Congress gets taken over by republicans which slows the growth (because they will not cut) of spending.

 

[Erich]

Eventually, we’ll do what the rest of the civilized world does and go single-payer

In Canada, patients have long been legally prohibited from spending their own money to purchase medical care privately if that care was also provided under the Canadian government’s health care program. Many Canadians who did not want endure the wait for treatment under the government program, or suffer the pain or inconvenience of these restrictions, would often have to travel to the United States to get the care that they wanted or needed. Eventually, the Supreme Court of Canada struck down a Quebec law that had banned private health insurance and private payment for services covered under Canada’s socialized health care program, saying in its ruling, “Access to a waiting list is not access to health care.”

So, we’ll do what the rest of the civilized world does and give everyone equal access to a waiting list? How civilized is that?

 

[Darryl_Revok]

And funding abortion.

Everybody wins!

Most people support massive military spending, comfortable with the fact that a fair share of the Hellfire missiles purchased with their tax dollars will find their way to nurseries, wedding parties, playgrounds, etc.

The support of any government enterprise comes with its fair share of moral compromises. It’s a little late to pick and choose, I think.

 

[SWolf]

Most people support massive military spending, comfortable with the fact that a fair share of the Hellfire missiles purchased with their tax dollars will find their way to nurseries, wedding parties, playgrounds, etc.

The support of any government enterprise comes with its fair share of moral compromises. It’s a little late to pick and choose, I think.

Isn’t this a strong argument for very limited government?

 

[Darryl_Revok]

Isn’t this a strong argument for very limited government?

Indeed, an argument which I have seen few people make. They always want limited government, but on their terms.

Libertarianism is as much of a sham as federalism.

 

[SWolf]

Indeed, an argument which I have seen few people make. They always want limited government, but on their terms.

Libertarianism is as much of a sham as federalism.

Please elaborate.

 

[zz912]

Laugh and be happy to those who think they were just handed a great deal! Everything Obama attempts will fail and the American people will suffer. Stock up on your own bandaids and aspirin. It is going to be ridiculous!

Agreed. The monumental failures are evident to anyone who wishes to see.

This ridiculous ruling is the definitive beginning to the end of our Republic. The rule of law is dead, and there is no truth. The plain language of the law is immaterial to the wishes and opinions of the elite rulers.

I suggest everyone spend some serious time reading up on the Reign of Terror to truly understand what we are rapidly heading towards.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Indeed, an argument which I have seen few people make. They always want limited government, but on their terms.

Libertarianism is as much of a sham as federalism.

I would not call libertarianism a sham as much as there are many more people who claim to want limited government than actually want it. After all, you cannot criticize Obamacare and then stay silent about Medicare. Medicare is government run single payer health insurance with all the problems of such a program. The basic idea is that people see government spending on themselves as smart government and government spending on others as wasteful.

 

[SWolf]

I would not call libertarianism a sham as much as there are many more people who claim to want limited government than actually want it. After all, you cannot criticize Obamacare and then stay silent about Medicare. Medicare is government run single payer health insurance with all the problems of such a program. The basic idea is that people see government spending on themselves as smart government and government spending on others as wasteful.

I strongly agree with this.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Well, by supporting the ACA via paying your taxes, you’ll be doing your part in tending the sick.

Everybody wins!

Sorry, I don’t have several hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay my share, and a few more hundred thousand to pay the share of those who can’t. Since, although not rich by US standards, I’m certainly not poor by the standards of the world.

Again, the cost of this isn’t being borne by us, it will be placed on folks in the future. This whole thing is really very little cost to me, it’s just getting dumped forward.

 

[unstoppable_II]

…
So, we’ll do what the rest of the civilized world does and give everyone equal access to a waiting list? How civilized is that?

Hey! Equality is what liberalism in the U.S. is all about. In fact, it is more accurately described as radical egalitarianism. Liberals won’t be happy until we’re paying for the whole planet, if then.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Actually, you have to look at both assets and liabilities. For example. it is not uncommon to have companies that have debt equal to 4-5 times their annual earnings.

Part of the problem is that without raising taxes and without cutting defense, medicare and social security, it is impossible to balance the budget. We will not see a balanced budget as a permanent feature of our economy in our lifetime, regardless of whether republicans or democrats are in charge. The only hope we have is if a democrat is elected and raises taxes and then Congress gets taken over by republicans which slows the growth (because they will not cut) of spending.

Yeah-- very frustrating. I’m a realist, I can do math. Some debt is tolerable, but we’re racking it up this year at 102% of GDP-- 247Billion in interest. There are some very hard choices that have to be made, and every one is going to have to bear some of the pain. Neither party wants to address the issue, easier to just keep raising the ceilings and passing it on hoping it doesn’t become critical until they’re long out of office. I expect my benefits to be slashed- it will have to happen regardless of the promises about SSN etc, promises will have to be broken. We, the current generation, have to not be greedy and get this done because it will only be harder with more drastic cuts the longer it is delayed.

 

[Murmurs]

Then study this for His second coming.

I’m not sure what your point is - or rather why it’s directed at me (maybe it’s not in which case I happily apologise!). I totally agree that the western world is currently in a self-destructive orgy of envy at the moment, and some genuine grievances and concerns are being harnessed by those on the left (and some on the right) for good ol’ political gain…

 

[unstoppable_II]

… Medicare is government run single payer health insurance with all the problems of such a program. …

Actually, it is not a single payer program. I have it, and secondary insurance is a must unless you can find doctors who will accept Medicare, or you pay the difference yourself.

There is another way, though, that I have not seen discussed anywhere except this article.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Actually, it is not a single payer program. I have it, and secondary insurance is a must unless you can find doctors who will accept Medicare, or you pay the difference yourself.

There is another way, though, that I have not seen discussed anywhere except this article.

The primary insurance is single payer. Yes, it doesn’t cover everything, it excludes many things that responsible people should pay for themselves.

 

[ishii]

That is funny coming from you. See the abortion discussions on this forum.

Al Moritz, Do you think that I worship mammon and do not care about the poor or those without healthcare? I want the poor suckers to rot and die?

Ishii

 

[ProVobis]

If single payer works so well for medicare, then why not extend it to all? Of course, we know why medicare works so “well”. First, it is a massive redistribution from the working class to the leisure class. Second, there is cross subsidization going on from with private health insurance paying more and medicare less. How anyone could who is not a liberal could defend such a scheme is beyond me.

I heard it reported that medicare works because most everyone understands it. What’s baffling is why medicare, right or wrong, wasn’t simply expanded to 55 or maybe in some cases to 50. Obamacare seems to still be an unknown commodity, confusing even the Supreme Court as to what it’s supposed to be or do.

 

[unstoppable_II]

I’m not sure what your point is - or rather why it’s directed at me (maybe it’s not in which case I happily apologise!). I totally agree that the western world is currently in a self-destructive orgy of envy at the moment, and some genuine grievances and concerns are being harnessed by those on the left (and some on the right) for good ol’ political gain…

One of the reasons these massive programs have public support is that the people are told they can have a free lunch, IOW, someone else, namely “the rich”, will be paying for it. The second reason is that they have the added benefit of assuaging their envy by “sticking” it to “the rich”.

 

[unstoppable_II]

The primary insurance is single payer. Yes, it doesn’t cover everything, it excludes many things that responsible people should pay for themselves.

Then I would be the second payer, which makes it a two-payer system. :sad_yes:

 

[stinkcat_14]

One of the reasons these massive programs have public support is that the people are told they can have a free lunch, IOW, someone else, namely “the rich”, will be paying for it. The second reason is that they have the added benefit of assuaging their envy by “sticking” it to “the rich”.

I would be very careful about bringing up the envy card, that like the race card really doesn’t add much to the discussion. Envy, like racism can be a very difficult thing to prove and we as Catholics ought to be very careful about making unprovable allegations.