Supreme Court gives Obama second big health care win in ruling upholding nationwide subsidies

[JimG]

Actually, it is not a single payer program. I have it, and secondary insurance is a must unless you can find doctors who will accept Medicare, or you pay the difference yourself.

There is another way, though, that I have not seen discussed anywhere except this article.

The article is about a patient who canceled his surgery because the hospital demanded $20,000 upfront to pay the difference between his insurance coverage and their charge. He discussed it with his doc, canceled the surgery, the rescheduled it as a self-pay patient, negotiating the price for doc, anesthesiology and hospital.

"Most people are unaware that if they don’t use insurance, they can negotiate upfront cash prices with hospitals and providers substantially below the “list” price. Doctors are happy to do this. We get paid promptly, without paying office staff to wade through the insurance-payment morass.

So we canceled the surgery and started the scheduling process all over again, this time classifying my patient as a “self-pay” (or uninsured) patient. I quoted him a reasonable upfront cash price, as did the anesthesiologist. We contacted a different hospital and they quoted him a reasonable upfront cash price for the outpatient surgical/nursing services. He underwent his operation the very next day, with a total bill of just a little over $3,000, including doctor and hospital fees. He ended up saving $17,000 by not using insurance."
wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324139404579017113415486176

 

[unstoppable_II]

Why didn’t the Court just rule that everybody can have as much free healthcare as they want? And ice cream with unlimited toppings?

While they were at it, they could have thrown open the borders and invited the whole planet in for free health care.

 

[unstoppable_II]

The article is about a patient who canceled his surgery because the hospital demanded $20,000 upfront to pay the difference between his insurance coverage and their charge. He discussed it with his doc, canceled the surgery, the rescheduled it as a self-pay patient, negotiating the price for doc, anesthesiology and hospital.

"Most people are unaware that if they don’t use insurance, they can negotiate upfront cash prices with hospitals and providers substantially below the “list” price. Doctors are happy to do this. We get paid promptly, without paying office staff to wade through the insurance-payment morass.

So we canceled the surgery and started the scheduling process all over again, this time classifying my patient as a “self-pay” (or uninsured) patient. I quoted him a reasonable upfront cash price, as did the anesthesiologist. We contacted a different hospital and they quoted him a reasonable upfront cash price for the outpatient surgical/nursing services. He underwent his operation the very next day, with a total bill of just a little over $3,000, including doctor and hospital fees. He ended up saving $17,000 by not using insurance."
wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324139404579017113415486176

Right. That’s the third way. So why isn’t anyone talking about it? That’s my question.

 

[ishii]

Neither the comment by johnnykins nor my approval of it were directed at you specifically.

Who were they directed at?

 

[openmind77]

I have a clear conscience. How can you say a country is rich when it is this heavily in debt? Would you classify yourself as rich if you owed 4 to 5 times your annual income, and were going into debt at 1 and half times your income every year?

A lot of ways to tackle the health care issue. Including treating it like auto insurance and allow more open competition, providing individuals the same tax benefits as companies for purchasing it, lowering training requirements for medical personnel, government subsidizing facilities or personnel etc. etc. etc.

No idea how other countries are doing it, for the US to do it we have to radically revise either the federal spending, the federal income or (most likely) both. Stimulating the economy to produce more jobs would certainly be a help. Lot’s of factors, and it won’t be simple. As you said, we keep believing we’re the world’s policeman, country re-builder and peacemaker-- that costs.

As I’ve said before— I know I’ll personally have to pay more as well as have my benefits reduced. Despite all the lovely promises from my government. Not fair, but life never is. We can’t keep going this way. And frankly, I’m not paying for anything if we just keep piling the debt on, nothing noble about forcing folks in the future to pay for stuff we’re using now.

Excellent, I am sure Jesus will buy this explanation when he returns. He is sure to say to himself - ‘I should have thought of all these issues before I telling people to take care of the poor, sick, hungry and strangers. Next time, I will tell them to balance the budget first’.

 

[JButky]

Health care as a human right yes, but not health insurance as a right, imposed by a government. Obamacare is NOT about giving people healthcare, it’s about giving people insurance. Let’s not forget…

Obamacare pretty effectively destroys the Catholic social teaching of subsidiarity and relegates any notion of charity in this regard as illegal. It is truly a shame and blight on humanity.

 

[JimG]

Right. That’s the third way. So why isn’t anyone talking about it? That’s my question.

Well, some are, especially family practitioners. There are those practices which have rejected the insurance companies entirely, taking no insurance, not even Medicare. And they are getting patients, who pay the doc directly–usually a monthly retainer fee which covers most medical services. I expect some specialists will get into the “direct patient care” mode as well.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Why are you so happy about Obamacare? After all, the CBO says 30 million will have no coverage anyway.

Cuz they chose not to have coverage.

I have affordable health insurance for my wife and myself. That’s what I’m happy with Obama Care and before that was Romney care when I had affordable health insurance and was able to get a physical, which led to discovering the cancer I had. Had I not had health insurance, I would not have gone for my physical until I hit 65, then it would’ve been too late.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Maybe if we stop spending trillions on wars and foreign aid to countries in the Middle East, paying for health insurance for all Americans won’t be such a big deal.

Jim

 

[Ridgerunner]

Every developed country including some marginal ones like Brazil can afford to pay for healthcare for All its citizens.

Except of course the richest country in world.

You can explain your objections to government paying for healthcare for everyone to Jesus when he returns. I am sure He will be impressed with your fiscal responsibility.

So, if you ever need open heart surgery, you will be going to Brazil for the quality of care?

 

[styrgwillidar]

Excellent, I am sure Jesus will buy this explanation when he returns. He is sure to say to himself - ‘I should have thought of all these issues before I telling people to take care of the poor, sick, hungry and strangers. Next time, I will tell them to balance the budget first’.

I am sure He will as well, because He never told His followers to take others property. To point to Him as a justification for taking from people- either their neighbors, or their children, or their grandchildren.

I’m assuming if you’re in the US you can come up with the 56K for each individual in your household as your share of the debt? Plus the 298K each for unfunded obligations.

If you’re a taxpayer, your share is actually triple that— and don’t forget you’ll also have to pay for some of the folks who can’t pay. So, a couple of million?

I can’t afford that— why is it ok to expect future generations to pay it for me? Is that what Jesus wants-- me to expect future generations to pay for my good intentions?

 

[unstoppable_II]

Cuz they chose not to have coverage.

You have a point here. MY sons delivered pizza, and they both told me the most expensive satellite sports TV packages were in the poor neighborhoods.

I have affordable health insurance for my wife and myself. That’s what I’m happy with Obama Care and before that was Romney care when I had affordable health insurance and was able to get a physical, which led to discovering the cancer I had. Had I not had health insurance, I would not have gone for my physical until I hit 65, then it would’ve been too late.

What is “affordable” health care? Clearly it is what can be afforded after paying for the most expensive satellite sports TV packages.

 

[unstoppable_II]

So, if you ever need open heart surgery, you will be going to Brazil for the quality of care?

Weren’t there some commie big-wigs who came to the US instead of using their wonderful “Peoples Health Care” system?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Cuz they chose not to have coverage.

I have affordable health insurance for my wife and myself. That’s what I’m happy with Obama Care and before that was Romney care when I had affordable health insurance and was able to get a physical, which led to discovering the cancer I had. Had I not had health insurance, I would not have gone for my physical until I hit 65, then it would’ve been too late.

Jim

Not all who have no coverage chose that status, and I think as time goes on, we’ll see that 30 million was an underestimate. You still have to pay for it, and if you don’t get a subsidy it’s very expensive. Right now, the penalties do not begin to equal the unsubsidized cost. So, for a young person who, we all know, don’t feel much need for insurance anyway, the temptation to pay the fine and go on is definitely a consideration.

Obviously, the more that happens, and the more unneeded medical costs get added to the covered costs of Obamacare, one gets an older and sicker insured populace. I truly don’t see how that can last.

People seem to think medical care is not a limited resource, but it is. As such, its limitations will not be difficult to test. I believe we’re seeing that, and have for quite some while, and I can’t see how it will not get worse. “Single payer” is not an answer to that. You can’t successfully make bread free to 100 people if there is only enough bread for 70.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Weren’t there some commie big-wigs who came to the US instead of using their wonderful “Peoples Health Care” system?

I think it goes both ways, depending on the service. I’ve been told if you live along the Canadian or Mexican borders it’s common to buy medications in those countries as being cheaper than in the US.

 

[Path_Finder]

Health care as a human right yes, but not health insurance as a right, imposed by a government. Obamacare is NOT about giving people healthcare, it’s about giving people insurance. Let’s not forget…

Obamacare pretty effectively destroys the Catholic social teaching of subsidiarity and relegates any notion of charity in this regard as illegal. It is truly a shame and blight on humanity.

Well said.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Maybe if we stop spending trillions on wars and foreign aid to countries in the Middle East, paying for health insurance for all Americans won’t be such a big deal.

Jim

Do you think so? If the estimated unfunded future medical costs of Medicare alone are to be credited, the cost of it will exceed the cost of all wars put together. And then to further socialize it?

Something has to give. Either somehow the scarce resource has to be significantly increased or access to it has to be diminished. We could perhaps start with unloading the “bells and whistles” of Obamacare; like zero-deductible contraceptive and abortifacient coverage, psych and substance abuse coverage.

 

[Crossbones]

Neither the comment by johnnykins nor my approval of it were directed at you specifically.

Wow, the idea of seeking mammon over the good of their fellow Christians really seems to get under the skin of some posters. It seems to be stifling the debate to obsess over a single comment and approval of it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think it goes both ways, depending on the service. I’ve been told if you live along the Canadian or Mexican borders it’s common to buy medications in those countries as being cheaper than in the US.

It’s certainly true in Mexico. Moreover you can buy almost any of it over the counter. Consequently, a lot of people in Mexico self-diagnose and self-treat. In this country, then, we have to deal with a lot of the consequences of that.

Let me add this. Sometimes the Canadian equivalents are not really equivalent. I have looked into a number of them for an insurer in the past, and they’re often close, but not quite the same thing. Also, if you look at “Canadian” meds, they’re from everywhere, including third world companies. They’re not the same thing you get in your U.S. pharmacy oftentimes.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Do you think so? If the estimated unfunded future medical costs of Medicare alone are to be credited, the cost of it will exceed the cost of all wars put together. And then to further socialize it?

Something has to give. Either somehow the scarce resource has to be significantly increased or access to it has to be diminished. We could perhaps start with unloading the “bells and whistles” of Obamacare; like zero-deductible contraceptive and abortifacient coverage, psych and substance abuse coverage.

Two wars were not funded by the GOP Congress and they cost taxpayers trillions and created anarchy in the ME.

Jim