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Ender
Guest
But in the end, at about 5:00 PM today he will be confirmed, and that is very appropriate.
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ConstantLearner
Guest
Maybe I told him. Try giving that a shot. Thanks.
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ConstantLearner
Guest
No, thank you. I already get enough biased views here. My news channel gives both sides.
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Ender
Guest
It’s over: Kavanaugh has been confirmed. For the first time in a long time the Republicans stood up under pressure and did the right thing. Still, those hearings did a lot of damage, and it will be interesting and instructive to see where things go from here. I am tempted to say things could hardly get worse, but unfortunately I don’t believe that is the case.
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Victoria33
Guest
I see two things and I say this not to heave praise upon President Trump but:
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But at the same time, Kavanaugh was someone looked favorably on by Graham, by Bush. I don’t like to use the word “establishment” but that is what some pundits say.
So, I think it’s a bit of both.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
No, I would not expect Kavanaugh to behave “judicially” at his daughter’s birthday party or if he is playing Santa Claus or coaching a Little League Team. But testifying before a Senate Committee that is charged with determining your fitness for a judicial office is surely one of those times when a judicial demeanor is called for.Suudy:
The claim that Kavanaugh lacks the right temperament to be on the Supreme Court because of the animated defense of his integrity is farcical. The term “grasping at straws” perfectly captures it. Just as we wear different clothes for different occasions, we have different behaviors for different occasions as well, and it is simply ludicrous to expect one to behave “judicially” everywhere and every time.
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Theo520
Guest
He sat for 12 year on our second highest court.
Everyone said he behaved judicially during this extensive time being an actual justice.
That you raise his expressed outrage during a farcical senate hearing as of greater importance is more telling about you than about Kavanaugh.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Greater importance? That’s not how this works out:LeafByNiggle:
He sat for 12 year on our second highest court.
Everyone said he behaved judicially during this extensive time being an actual justice.
That you raise his expressed outrage during a farcical senate hearing as of greater importance is more telling about you than about Kavanaugh.
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Ender
Guest
But he wasn’t just testifying, was he? Throughout the months where he underwent this process, meeting with senators, responding to their inquiries, and answering their questions his behavior was in fact impeccable, as it was for the twelve years he sat on the circuit court.
No, he let his temper show through only in response to the most reprehensible allegations made against him. That’s not quite just “testifying”, as you so cavalierly put it. He had been bullied and slandered for weeks, not just on capital hill but throughout the country on every major media outlet. That may not be provocation enough for you, but I’m glad he said what he did, and I hope this utterly contemptible proceeding is remembered at the polls.
Maybe you’ll win in the next elections, but you lost this one. Good on Kavanaugh, good on the Senate Republicans, and good on Trump.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
People are accused of horrible things and put on trial every day. In those trials, they are subjected to questions and accusations that are every bit as horrible as those directed at Kavanaugh. If such a case came before Judge Kavanugh and the defendant called the prosecution a hit job and he insulted the prosecutor by asking him if he ever drank so much he blacked out, in short, if the defendant acted like Kavanaugh did last Thursday, I would expect Kavanaugh, indeed any judge, to reprimand the defendant and remind him of the decorum expected in a court of law. If we expect civil behavior, even from ordinary citizens who are accused, how much more should we expect that decorum from a Justice of the Supreme Court?LeafByNiggle:
But he wasn’t just testifying, was he? Throughout the months where he underwent this process, meeting with senators, responding to their inquiries, and answering their questions his behavior was in fact impeccable, as it was for the twelve years he sat on the circuit court.
No, he let his temper show through only in response to the most reprehensible allegations made against him. That’s not quite just “testifying”, as you so cavalierly put it. He had been bullied and slandered for weeks, not just on capital hill but throughout the country on every major media outlet. That may not be provocation enough for you, but I’m glad he said what he did, and I hope this utterly contemptible proceeding is remembered at the polls.
Yes, let’s all rally around our tribal corners.
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yankeesouth
Guest
Amazing win for President Trump and the American people. Judge Kavanaugh took the full brunt of anti Catholicism which will perhaps make Judge Amy Barrett’s confirmation process a little easier if another spot opens up on the Court.
And Judge Kavanaugh attained this victory on the vigil of Our Lady of VIctory!
And Judge Kavanaugh attained this victory on the vigil of Our Lady of VIctory!
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Victoria33
Guest
Thanks for sharing this. I didn’t know that. Also, sometimes I have heard it said something happened on the “EVE” of such and such a date. “Eve of Our Lady of VIctory” in this case.
Read more here (for all in the forum, Our Lady of the Rosary as well, I do know that date):
en.wikipedia.org
Read more here (for all in the forum, Our Lady of the Rosary as well, I do know that date):
Our Lady of the Rosary - Wikipedia
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Ender
Guest
Yes, they are, and in those cases supporting evidence of the allegation is required, something utterly lacking in these allegations. As Rachel Mitchell pointed out in her report after conducting the questioning of Dr. Ford before the committee:
- “Dr. Ford has not offered a consistent account of when the alleged assault happened.”
- “Dr. Ford struggled to identify Judge Kavanaugh as the assailant by name.”
- “When speaking with her husband, Dr. Ford changed her description of the incident to become less specific.”
- “Dr. Ford has no memory of key details of the night in question—details that could help corroborate her account.”
- “She does not remember in what house the alleged assault took place or where that house was located with any specificity.”
- “Perhaps most importantly, she does not remember how she got from the party back to her house.”
In summary:
“I do not think that a reasonable prosecutor would bring this case based on the evidence before the committee. Nor do I believe that this evidence is sufficient to satisfy the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard.”
Cheer up. I’m sure there are plenty of slanderous allegations still available for the next one, and next time you might even have the votes. I think it entirely likely that if the Dems gain control of the Senate they would rather leave a seat vacant for the full two years rather than confirm a Trump nominee.
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Ender
Guest
If Barrett is nominated you will see an even greater frenzy, especially if it is Justice Ginsburg whose seat is vacated. I would expect to see the charge of “homophobe” to be the main objection to her nomination, a charge based entirely on her actually believing what the church teaches.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
You keep trying to argue the case on its merits, and I’m not even talking about the same issue as that.LeafByNiggle:
Yes, they are, and in those cases supporting evidence of the allegation is required, something utterly lacking in these allegations. As Rachel Mitchell pointed out in her report after conducting the questioning of Dr. Ford before the committee:
- “Dr. Ford has not offered a consistent account of when the alleged assault happened.”
- “Dr. Ford struggled to identify Judge Kavanaugh as the assailant by name.”
- “When speaking with her husband, Dr. Ford changed her description of the incident to become less specific.”
- “Dr. Ford has no memory of key details of the night in question—details that could help corroborate her account.”
- “She does not remember in what house the alleged assault took place or where that house was located with any specificity.”
- “Perhaps most importantly, she does not remember how she got from the party back to her house.”
In summary:
“I do not think that a reasonable prosecutor would bring this case based on the evidence before the committee. Nor do I believe that this evidence is sufficient to satisfy the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard.”
First of all, you don’t think people ever get accused of something on the basis of just an eyewitness? It happens. The prosecution may not win such cases, but they are brought. And even in those cases, where there is no corroborating evidence, we expect civility from the witnesses.
You missed my sarcasm. I do not want us to rally around our tribal corners. And I am afraid that if the
Democrats win control, the polarization will not improve, and we will still have our tribal corners. The problem is not Trump. It is us. So I see little to cheer about, regardless of who wins.
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Victoria33
Guest
I think I saw some article saying something like by showing his anger, he affirmed his innocence. It might not have been stated that, so simply but a lot of us would be upset if wrongfully accused of doing something very heinous such as what he was accused of. Not to mention, the piling on accusations as well, which were basically absurd.
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Ender
Guest
I guess not, because on the merits there is no case to argue.
Your characterization of the situation utterly lacks any connection to the actual events, which is hardly surprising given the grotesque nature of the way Kavanaugh was treated. The most malicious, slanderous charges were leveled against him, and given prominence and support from every major media outlet in the country. Allegations without a shred of supporting evidence were not only accepted as true but we were all told just to believe the woman and find Kavanaugh guilty, and if you watched any of the news or any of the confrontations with the protesters you can see that that is exactly what they did.
The media-public frenzy didn’t even rise to the level of a kangaroo court. This was obscene and outrageous. Don’t compare any of this circus to the due process one would expect in a courtroom. The Democrats set the mood from the first day with the paid protesters they admitted to the hearing room. If you can’t even condemn that behavior then don’t go looking for less polarization in the future. It seems Trump has given Republicans a spine, and they may just decide they can actually stand up to this kind of bullying treatment.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Fr. Heilman has had his entire Novena for our Nation Rosary group praying for Kavanaugh to be confirmed, for many days now.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
@Ender, you know it is customary when making an argument to present an argument and not just rattle off a list of derogatory terms leveled at the opposing side.
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yankeesouth
Guest
Yes I am aware. Also Fr. Pavone from Priests For Life has been calling for prayer for Judge Kavanaugh.
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