Supreme Court Ruling on Health Care

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JimR-OCDS said:
You can turn a blind eye to the problem, which people who have health care coverage tend to do, or look at it and try to figure a way to solve it. This is what Obama did, and people will be thanking him, before it’s over.
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No, Obama did not “solve” it.

What Obama did was give some people the opportunity to shirk their charitable duties by pretending to solve it.

You can be sure that if Obamacare is allowed to stand and it were to fail that we would not hear JimR-OCDS admitting his mistake but, instead, demanding more political solutions to the lack of charity.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Great, because a single payer universal health care system is what we actually need, but Obama knew there was no chance in passing that. He did attempt to put the “government option” in, which would’ve prevented the insurance industry from gouging us, which they’ll do, only not as quickly now that they have the mandate in.

Fact is, the same insurance corporations who are going to benefit greatly from Obama Care, are the same people who spread the false propaganda about Hillary Care, back in 1993.

As long as we maintain a “for profit,” health care system, Obama care is only a band aid to a future problem in that the insurance industry will in fact, raise the premiums beyond the average family’s ability to pay.

Jim
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Italy has single payer.
  1. My uncle died waiting years for expensive therapy
  2. At least there, if you have money, you can opt out of the state system.
 
allrpunished said:
To repeat:

This is NOT a massive tax increase, never mind the “biggest in history”.

The nonpartisan/conservative fact checker Politifact has labeled this charge against the ACA “False” politifact.com/florida/st…est-tax-incre/

The tax is only applied if you refuse to have health insurance when you can afford it. It equals either $695 or 2.5% of household income for those, unless you are poor and therefore exempt.

Please note, this increase is LESS than the increase the Republicans would have created when they tried to block payroll tax exemption last year, which would have added 3.1% to the tax and cost families $1,500 a year on average.
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So if you refuse to have health insurance, you see a tax increase of $695, or 2.5%?

Now I’m an engineer, not a mathemtician, but it seems like you said an increase in taxes is not a tax increase?

I really enjoy the mental gymnastics some people who endorse this (no one in particular, just the general tenor of some comments) that they go through to justify the word games.

Here is what it have taken away from it, feel free to tell me where I am wrong:
  1. Not having health insurance kicks in a required tax payment, subject to economic staus or other qualifies related thereto. (per 5-4 USSC decision).
  2. The decision as I read it (haven’t finished) and based on analysis from elgal experts from every news outlet, both liberal and conservative, is based on legislative authority period, not legislative authority as it **applies to health insurance. **This means any non-act can be taxed, legally and federally. To limit the apllication to only health insurance in these discussions is naive. The ruling doesn’t single out only cases of health insurance. The limits to this tax are therefore based on hopes that Congress will simply act “properly.”
  3. The administration, and the ACAs many supporters on Catholic Answers have have stood their ground repeatedly on it not being a tax. I am sure they are delighted in the ruling today, but I assume that means they were either lying, or legally, just wrong the entire time? It will be hard to rebut the forthcoming ads that highlight this “dupe.”
  4. While some 200,000 small business must offer some form of health insurance or pay fines, the vast majority are not required to offer any at all (I myself chose not to for my company). The fines will not apply to less than 50 employees, and I myself will sell the company (or keep it below that number) long before I hit 50. If no insurance is offered, the employee becomes the responsible party (via tax or finding their own).
  5. If the RCC loses its suit over contraception, there is no out. And based on today;s ruling, if abortion coverage is required, it to falls under this ruling. Fund it, or be taxed or penalized.
  6. The Feds can’t withhold funds from the States who opt out of Medicaid expansion, which covers the poorest Americans. Many states have already decided to opt out.
What am I missing?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
No, Obama did not “solve” it.

What Obama did was give some people the opportunity to shirk their charitable duties by pretending to solve it.

You can be sure that if Obamacare is allowed to stand and it were to fail that we would not hear JimR-OCDS admitting his mistake but, instead, demanding more political solutions to the lack of charity.
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JimR-OCDS said:
Great, because a single payer universal health care system is what we actually need…
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It doesn’t even have to fail, we can already project what was “actually” needed.
 
mary_bobo said:
There are ways to fix the problem for those who did not have insurance, thru no fault of their own, without dismantling the whole system and lowering the delivery of the finest medical care in the world to the lowest common denominator. The excellent care that Americans have come to expect will be a thing of the past if this abomination is allowed to stand.
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If our health care is the best in the world why do we spend more than any other country per patient and yet our life expectancy is 26th. in the world?

Is this simply something we are SUPPOSED to say “we have the BEST health care.”

Excuse me- we are 38th in the world. . . . . .not 26th. I was being optimistic I guess.
 
mary_bobo said:
Don’t think people are going to be thanking him when they find out just what kind of care they are going to get. Decisions will be made by government entities as to who and what kind of care people get. The patients and the doctors have been left totally out of this equation. There are ways to fix the problem for those who did not have insurance, thru no fault of their own, without dismantling the whole system and lowering the delivery of the finest medical care in the world to the lowest common denominator. The excellent care that Americans have come to expect will be a thing of the past if this abomination is allowed to stand.
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Well, I’m on Romney Care, which is what Obama Care was based on.

The coverage has been excellent and in fact, better than the insurance I had with my employer.

Also, I had the choice of choosing between five health insurance companies. When I was working, my employer did not provide a choice, but we had to take what he offered and pay for 35% on my own.

My payments now are less than what my employer forced me to pay.

It will be even better with Obama Care, because instead of being in a pool of 10,000 people, you’ll be in a pool of tens of millions of people and hat will reduce the premiums, for now.

However, as I said in another post, before long those premiums are going to increase and this is because the cost of health care continues to rise, because we have a “for profit,” health care system, run my MBA’s, looking to make huge earnings for themselves and the administrators whom they work for.

Jim
 
Joe_5859 said:
Is there a separate law that says places of employment must offer health coverage to full-time employees?
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Or if they don’t, they have to pay a tax/penalty:
Maryland ’s Fair Share Health Care Act requires any corporation with more than 10,000 employees to pay into the Fair Share Health Care Fund if that corporation does not spend at least 8 percent of its wages on health care for employees. The law defines health care as those expenses for employee health care that are deductible on the corporation’s federal tax return, including payments for medical care, prescription drugs, vision care, medical savings accounts, and other costs.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
All the Republicans need to do is win 51 seats in the Senate and hold the House and Obamacare is done, regardless of who is in the White House.

Its called reconcilliation. its how Harry Reid got it through the Senate in the first place. They don’t even need the President’s signature.
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51 seats does not a filibuster break make…It will never come to a vote in the Senate to be repealed…
 
Joe_5859 said:
I think this might be confusing two separate issues. The Individual Mandate “tax” that has come to light via today’s decision is a tax on individuals without health insurance, not on corporate entities or non-profits. As far as I can tell, no such entity would be paying this tax.

Is there a separate law that says places of employment must offer health coverage to full-time employees?
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So let me get this straight- everyone is angry becaue the law says that people must be responsible and purchase medical insurance or be taxed to pay for the medical services that they will use.

I thought personal responsibility was a good thing? I thought people didn’t want their money going to others who should be paying for their own things? After all, nobody seems to like their money going to people on welfare, right? Why does everyone want to continue to pay for other people’s health care in the form of higher costs for services?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
You can be sure that if Obamacare is allowed to stand and it were to fail that we would not hear JimR-OCDS admitting his mistake but, instead, demanding more political solutions to the lack of charity.
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Possibly—if the reason for its failure were to be the obstructionism of one political party. I think I’d be beside him adding my voice to that demand.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well, I’m on Romney Care, which is what Obama Care was based on.

The coverage has been excellent and in fact, better than the insurance I had with my employer.

Also, I had the choice of choosing between five health insurance companies. When I was working, my employer did not provide a choice, but we had to take what he offered and pay for 35% on my own.

My payments now are less than what my employer forced me to pay.

It will be even better with Obama Care, because instead of being in a pool of 10,000 people, you’ll be in a pool of tens of millions of people and hat will reduce the premiums, for now.

However, as I said in another post, before long those premiums are going to increase and this is because the cost of health care continues to rise, because we have a “for profit,” health care system, run my MBA’s, looking to make huge earnings for themselves and the administrators whom they work for.

Jim
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Ahh, you are from Mass. Now it all makes sense 😃

(That was a joke, and in no way intended as an actual slam)
 
I am gloating with another broken Obama promise. He spent almost 2 years to foist on the American middle class and the poor the largest tax increase in modern American history.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
College students generally don’t get part time jobs which include health insurance.

Also, the health insurance crisis has been a growing problem for the past 20 years.

There were 40 million people without health insurance and corporations were complaining about the rising cost to insure their employees.

You can turn a blind eye to the problem, which people who have health care coverage tend to do, or look at it and try to figure a way to solve it. This is what Obama did, and people will be thanking him, before it’s over.
Jim
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Okay, let’s debunk this dubious argument about the so-called 47 million uninsured.

One more time, let’s break down this 47 million uninsured.

There are not 47 million Americans who are uninsured or cannot get insurance.

Of the so-called 47 million who are uninsured:
  • 5.2 million (or 11%) are illegal aliens
  • 5 million (or 11%) are legal immigrants
so that’s, over 10 million or 22% who are not Americans*.

Then we have individuals earning more than $75,000/year (who can afford a policy) which constitutes 9 million.

So we are almost at 20 million of the so-called phoney 47 million.

Now we have another 9.7 or roughly 10 million people who are eligible for programs, but for reasons of their own knowing, choose ***not ***to participate.

Well gee! That’s almost 30 million people

Then we have people eligible for employer-sponsored insurance but choose not to sticking with their temp insurance and when they are without insurance it is for a short period roughly 4 months)…that’s another 6 million

So no we have 35 million of the uninsured…or 75 percent

Then we have 12 million long-term who apparently cannot get insurance and are not eligible.

THAT’S 12 MILLION OUT OF 300 MILLION! SO WE’RE ARE GOING TO DESTROY THE SYSTEM THAT COVERS 288 MILLION IN ORDER TO INSURE 12 MILLION AMERICANS WHO CAN’T BE HELPED :mad::mad::mad:
 
ringil said:
If our health care is the best in the world why do we spend more than any other country per patient and yet our life expectancy is 26th. in the world?

Is this simply something we are SUPPOSED to say “we have the BEST health care.”

Excuse me- we are 38th in the world. . . . . .not 26th. I was being optimistic I guess.
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We have the best health care because we are AMERICAN! ;):rolleyes:

But our health care will be even worse with Obamacare. 😦
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Italy has single payer.
  1. My uncle died waiting years for expensive therapy
  2. At least there, if you have money, you can opt out of the state system.
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Well, that’s because Italy has other issues, like not enough doctors and hospitals.

I’ve met people from Toronto and Quebec Canada, who came to live here and say how their families have great health care coverage back home, and how ours stinks.

I also know some from New Brunswick, who claim it’s lousy and one guy told me how his uncle died, because he was waiting for bye-pass surgery. Of course where his uncle lives in New Brunswick, there is one clinic about 25 miles away. He refused to go to Montreal, where he could’ve gotten the surgery.

Jim
 
Cuba, Greece, United Arab Emirates, Cyprus have higher life expectancy than the US.
 
irishpatrick said:
Nonsense. We cannot have conversion without liberty, at least not at the pace we need.
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Nonsense. As I recall, Israel was under the yoke of Rome when its people (at least some of them) underwent the most dramatic conversion in history.
 
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