Originally Posted by Sy Noe
I was stunned to see a Catholic say anyone is a lost cause.
Originally Posted by KSU
Will you never stop? You know very well that, for example, a practicing homosexual can never become a Catholic in good standing if he/she intends to remain active. It’s just not possible because such a person could not, by definition, make a valid Confession.
Same goes for active devil worshipers, adulterers, murderers, etc. But you already know these things.
You say you are a Catholic, so you also know that the statements of the Holy Father which you use to sign off, viz:
“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage… it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time”,
and
“The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong.”
can be misleading to the uninformed when presented without context, especially in posts about black and white Church doctrine. The Holy Father is not telling us that it’s wrong to not search for “nuance or different understandings” regarding specific sins like gay marriage or abortion. (That’s the job of orthodox, competent Catholic theologians, and preferably not in public). It’s clear all he is saying is that we have many fish to fry, not just those two.
So, my friend, why in your posts do you keep probing and advocating for cracks, nuance or different understandings of Catholic doctrine? As badly as you seem to want it, there simply are no Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Branches of Catholicism.
Saw questions were asked of me at the end of the original thread, questions which came about from a debate which had ensued after someone said homosexuals are lost causes. So just to reply…
A poster informed me “a practicing homosexual can never become a Catholic in good standing if he/she intends to remain active. It’s just not possible because such a person could not, by definition, make a valid Confession. Same goes for active devil worshipers, adulterers, murderers, etc.”
But thankfully Gracepoole gave the correct Catholic answer: “I don’t understand your response. The Church does not see anyone as a “lost cause,” nor does Christ. Your response seems to misrepresent what was said.”
Indeed. No one said a thing about practicing homosexuals, adulterers, devil worshipers, murderers, etc who are living in what the CC considers to be sin, as being in good standing until they come into full communion. And that is never a lost cause. So no one should not stop when CC teaching is misrepresented even if it’s misrepresented by faithful Catholics. This is after all supposed to be a Catholic answers forum. And no I do not want to see branches of Catholicism. So hope this helps.
Sy, you can put words in my mouth, but there is nothing in my above post that would cause an objective reader to conclude that I said the Church considers certain people to be a lost cause. That’s just your attempt to avoid the consequences that the Church teaches will befall grave sinners who know but reject said teaching and intend to and do continue their ways of living. As you admit, my actual words were:
“You know very well that, for example, a practicing homosexual can never become a Catholic in good standing if he/she intends to remain active. It’s just not possible because such a person could not, by definition, make a valid Confession… Same goes for active devil worshipers, adulterers, murderers, etc.”
So now, Sy, how do you twist those words to mean that I said the Church gives up on such poor sinners, and that I misrepresented Church teaching? Then you have the gall to add, “This is after all supposed to be a Catholic answers forum”.
You bet it’s a Catholic forum, and it’s why you are reading this Catholic answer now. You began this pot stirring by taking bibcat’s words out of context. He was responding to another poster who asked:
“Why would a same-sex couple seek marriage in the Catholic Church when the couple knows very well that the Church strictly opposes SSM? While homosexuals have their understandable arguments concerning civil rights and their legitimate place in society, it seems to me there is some sort of ugly motivation involved when a group seeks ‘acceptance’ by a religion group and its clergy when their stated behavior is contrary to the firm religious beliefs of that religious organization.”
As you are well aware, Sy, that is the context in which bibcat opined that to expect gays to stop putting pressure on the Church to change its beliefs would be a lost cause. And that’s when his words were twisted out of context into just another false impression of how gays are persecuted by some un-Catholic acting Catholics on this Forum.
