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CCM08
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The Bible is a collection of dozens of books…
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Truly_Beloved
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Neither did the men.
And aren’t there a few passages in the OT (Proverbs, maybe?) about the value of a “working” wife? I think all of us wives work, whether or not our jobs reward us with paychecks. It is my opinion that essentially, our roles as husband and wife are the same as 2,000 years ago, because we’re still male and female. I think the Bible remains relevant today, but only when taken in its entirety - St. Paul only binds us wives to submission to our hubbies when our husbands submit to Christ. I may have misunderstood you, CCM, but do you disagree with this? I got the impression you didn’t think that what St. Paul wrote was relevant to modern times, is that so?
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JudiTherese
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If you don’t think women worked outside the home, check out Proverbs 31. That woman was dynamic in investing in land, running her household, trading,
serves the poor and needy, sells linens to merchants, cares for her family, This is a true working woman.
serves the poor and needy, sells linens to merchants, cares for her family, This is a true working woman.
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johntkd
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Yes I know it is and some books are not even in the Bible as we know it…but still the only book worth reading the rest are all rubbish
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Eliza10
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I remember this study - I “studied” it when it came out. This may not look like a huge difference to you, but the research foundation that reported these statistics considered the differences to be highly significant. And since they are the experts in statistics, their opinion on their significance is the authoratative one.
I was Evangelical and I can tell you, there is great error in the Evangelical teaching on marriage and what I saw and experienced says there is a direct link between their teaching and their divorce rate. So I would stay away from the “Surrendered Wife” book and get a Catholic one!
The problem with their teaching is all about their Biblical Interpretation - an interpretation divorced from Sacred Tradtion which is handed down by the apostles. Taking one verse, isolating it, and building a marriage teaching based on that causes big problems. Believe me, many evil things are done in the name of the Bible, with Bible verses to back them up. One can make a good case for polygamy using the “Bible Alone”, for example.
The Catholic teaching on marriage is whole, not a distortion, and it is faithful to scripture and the magisteriam of the Chruch
Yes. Only if both parties want it. One spouse cannot save a marriage if the other wills not to save it.
Jesus willed for all his apostles to stay with His flock. One willed to leave it.
http://images.replacements.com/imag...stmas_stamp_art_no_box_P0000014417S0008T2.jpg
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deb1
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well, first of all i read a lot of protestant authors and enjoy their books, so i can honestly say that i do not have a bias against protestant writers.
i do have problems with the unbalanced view that some of these writers take on marriage.
biblical marriage is wonderfully balanced. the man is the head of the household but according to 1 peter he is to honor his wife. the woman voluntarily submits but she is to be treated with respect and dignity. if you read the bible as a whole you will get that message easily. there are, in fact, many examples of very strong women in the bible.
the problem becomes when you isolate verses.
for some reason, there are several protestants writers on marriage who do this. that is why i am wary of such books.
i am not going to go so far and say that this particular book might not be great, it certainly may. but both protestants and catholics should be aware that the views might not be biblical, despite the number of bible verses the author quotes.
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deb1
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most of us agree with the bible verse. i certainly do.
i don’t think that most of us are arguening that the husband should be head of the home but are just wary about the evangelical view on marriage.
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Eliza10
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Try reading your Catechism! Then you’ll say, “There are two books worth reading in this entire world…”
Here is a searchable one online. I have this site bookmarked. When i want to search for scriptues on a topic, I also seach here:
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
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Eliza10
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JudiTherese
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My sister saved her marriage by using the lessons taught in a book called Love and Respect.
I have to say I’m really surprised by the comments that some men are just to stupid to lead a family.
I cannot even begin to express how much this thread has been bothering me. I’m not entirely sure why, but I think it’s the tone that Catholics can’t learn from anyone who is NOT a Catholic. Or rather, who is a protestant, because apparantly Dr. Laura is ok.
I was raised in a protestant church and am one of 8 children. None of my siblings are divorced, none of our friends we grew up with in that church are divorced. And all of my family and friends were very supportive and loving when I told them I was converting to Catholicism. I don’t see what you guys see, I guess.
I have to say I’m really surprised by the comments that some men are just to stupid to lead a family.
I cannot even begin to express how much this thread has been bothering me. I’m not entirely sure why, but I think it’s the tone that Catholics can’t learn from anyone who is NOT a Catholic. Or rather, who is a protestant, because apparantly Dr. Laura is ok.
I was raised in a protestant church and am one of 8 children. None of my siblings are divorced, none of our friends we grew up with in that church are divorced. And all of my family and friends were very supportive and loving when I told them I was converting to Catholicism. I don’t see what you guys see, I guess.
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deb1
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i think that only one poster said that her husband was stupid and i doubt that she was serious.
we each have our roles.
because my hubby works, running the household has become my sphere. he is still the head of our home, but he understands that i am best at running the day to day activities in our home. it would be a horrible mess if he returned home from work and began to tell me when to mop the floor or how to cook dinner.
he certainly isn’t too dumb to do these things. but he has responsibilities outside of our home, and it is easier on us both if i take care of the home.(not that i have anything against a woman working outside the home)
personally, i am only saying to be wary, not to totally discount books on marriage by evangelical writers. i enjoyed a book called the praying wife, myself and that was by a protestant.
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CCM08
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I take it history isn’t your strong point? The Greeco-Roman world had many large urban centers were men worked outside the home. Not everyone was a farmer.Neither did the men.
Actually, that’s a striking difference of a modern woman with a job and one 2,000 years ago. Having property would have completely changed your role in soceity. Even St. Paul would have been more than aware a woman of property in the Greeco-Roman world was his social superior.
So you consider yourself your husband’s chattel then?
A lot of what St. Paul wrote is relevant, and a lot of it isn’t. Protestants tend to, and apperantly some Catholics, focus on St. Paul’s rules for women and forget about what he had to say about men. Let alone other things he wrote, such as there is no difference between male and female, Jew and Gentile.
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CCM08
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That may be the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard.
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CCM08
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Some men are too stupid to lead a family. Some wives simply have been practical and financial skills. When you hear about people that saved their marriage with this junk protestant “theology of marriage” it comes down to a woman that’s just willing to be treated like a doormat because her husband is immature and has to have his own way like a spolied toddler. When you went to an evangelical high school you see a lot of this tripe.
Should Catholics be learning about marriage from people whose view is totally alien? I read Orthodox authors on the subject, which is the best arrangment for me being Orthodox. While I wouldn’t rule out a Catholic author, protestant’s have a non-sacramental view of everything and their divorce rates demonstate it. Does that mean they are always wrong? No, but why bother weeding out the bad when you can just read a good book written by someone that shares you’re views?
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JudiTherese
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Whoa, you are waaay out of line with the “spoiled toddler/doormat” comments. How arrogant of you to assume that’s the situation. Men need respect. Women need to feel loved and cherished. It is what it is and the books are right about it. My sister in NOT treated like a doormat. She would never put up with that. However she actively respects her husband instead of being critical of things that really don’t matter. That caused him to step up to the plate and treat her even better. He was never spoiled brat to her. They just crabbed at each other alot. There was a lot of resentment. It’s gone now.
And what does protestant junk theology of marriage mean anyway?
I don’t know, this board may be too judgemental for me. I was hoping to get more out of it that sadness for your negative attitudes and looking down at those not like you. Man, I am so frustrated by this. I wish I had never read this thread and could go on not knowing about your attitudes.
And what does protestant junk theology of marriage mean anyway?
I don’t know, this board may be too judgemental for me. I was hoping to get more out of it that sadness for your negative attitudes and looking down at those not like you. Man, I am so frustrated by this. I wish I had never read this thread and could go on not knowing about your attitudes.
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RWMorris
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I am a “surrendered wife”, devout Catholic, and I am not a door mat. In fact, since I stopped trying to take over my husband’s role as leader in the home, our disagreements vanished (or have become practically nil). My husband treats me like a queen…and I try to treat him with the respect and admiration he deserves. I don’t know why this thread is so lacking in charity in tone.
There’s no reason not to read a book by Dr. Laura or by protestants. I think it may be better to read Catholic books but anyone who wants to read a protestant book should be encouraged to do so. They are our separated brethren and not everything they say is wrong.
The fact is, the Bible does say for women to obey their husbands. What’s wrong with that?
Lissa
There’s no reason not to read a book by Dr. Laura or by protestants. I think it may be better to read Catholic books but anyone who wants to read a protestant book should be encouraged to do so. They are our separated brethren and not everything they say is wrong.
The fact is, the Bible does say for women to obey their husbands. What’s wrong with that?
Lissa
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CCM08
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There weren’t many disagreements in Hitler’s Germany, there never are in dictatorships. I wouldn’t consider a lack of disagreement proof of a healthy marriage, in many times just the opposite. One spouse tows the line for so long until they finally get sick of it and blow up.I am a “surrendered wife”, devout Catholic, and I am not a door mat. In fact, since I stopped trying to take over my husband’s role as leader in the home, our disagreements vanished (or have become practically nil). My husband treats me like a queen…and I try to treat him with the respect and admiration he deserves. I don’t know why this thread is so lacking in charity in tone.
There’s no reason not to read a book by Dr. Laura or by protestants. I think it may be better to read Catholic books but anyone who wants to read a protestant book should be encouraged to do so. They are our separated brethren and not everything they say is wrong.
The fact is, the Bible does say for women to obey their husbands. What’s wrong with that?
Lissa
At any rate does that mean you consider yourself chattel because the Bible says women are property?
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deb1
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you have to understand, you are on an internet forum with people from all different walks of life. we don’t agree on everything.
i’ve been on other forums that were more polite simply because such a wide variety of viewpoints as is allowed on this thread were not allowed. when everyone basically agrees with you, its easy not to get offended.
please simply ignore the rudeness and concentrate on those who either agree or can disagree politely. that is what i have learned to do.
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deb1
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ccmo8, where does the bible say that women are chattel? i don’t recall reading that.
the biblical model for marriage is very balanced. but the key is to reading the bible as a whole. if you take verses out of context or only concentrate on what one gender is supposed to do, then you end up with a very unbalanced view.
see everyone, ccmo8 and i disagree but that doesn’t mean that we will be rude to one another.
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RWMorris
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Wow…if I am property I am worth a whole lot!
I never considered myself property and I don’t think my husband does, but I’ll ask him.We had many fights and arguments and disagreements until I finally “surrendered” myself. I was trying to be the dominant one who made all the important decisions. At a marriage course, I realized my husband lacked a wife who respected and admired him for who he was. So I changed my ways and feel much happier. Personally, I enjoy the peace and quiet that comes from very little friction. I can voice my opinion whenever I want, but I do it in a charitable tone. I for one enjoy a peaceful, loving, respectful marriage with few or no quarrels.
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