Surrogacy and Homosexuality

[Listener]

It is very sad when the mother of a baby dies. The baby is left with no natural mother. Why would anyone want to create a situation like that on purpose? When two men make a baby, the baby ends up with no mother, and the baby can never be breast fed. I think this is very sad. People should think about what is best for the baby rather than what is best for their own selfish desires.

This sort of thing used to be done only when breeding animals. Have we reduced ourselves to animal behavior?

 

[petra22]

This sort of thing used to be done only when breeding animals. Have we reduced ourselves to animal behavior?

Worse. Most animals don’t act like sinful humans… in fact, animals can’t sin and go against nature.

 

[Starrsmother]

Sadly, this woman quit being Catholic long ago—if indeed she ever was Catholic. The idea of deliberately carrying a poor innocent baby to be raised knowingly by a homosexual couple is just horrendous. What a terrible shame. Truly, there is a total lack of even Christianity of any type or even basic humanity it in her choice. I suspect that she’d do just about anything for money and, you know what they call a woman who will do anything for a few bucks. It’s just a shame…

 

[LilPuppie]

Sadly, this woman quit being Catholic long ago—if indeed she ever was Catholic. The idea of deliberately carrying a poor innocent baby to be raised knowingly by a homosexual couple is just horrendous. What a terrible shame. Truly, there is a total lack of even Christianity of any type or even basic humanity it in her choice. I suspect that she’d do just about anything for money and, you know what they call a woman who will do anything for a few bucks. It’s just a shame…

Your response tells me you’re not Catholic either. True Christians are tolerant, you’re clearly anything but.

 

[Starrsmother]

Your response tells me you’re not Catholic either. True Christians are tolerant, you’re clearly anything but.

I’m sorry, but you are wrong. If I decided that I felt abortion was okay for instance, I’d be honest enough to go join a different denomination–not simply do whatever I chose and still call myself Catholic. Catholicism isn’t a buffet line where by your own pride and wishes you get to decide which dogmas you will follow and which ones you don’t like or want to follow. Tolerance is good—but homosexuality is a grave disorder as is surrogacy, artificial insemination and so on. All are forbidden by the Catholic church–plain and simple. You need to worry a little less about being PC and “tolerant” and a great deal more about following Jesus’ law and saving your soul–no matter how much you hope to make by doing something as wrong as making a baby for a gay couple. Money won’t get you into heaven, but it just might buy you a place in hell!

 

[LilPuppie]

I’m sorry, but you are wrong. If I decided that I felt abortion was okay for instance, I’d be honest enough to go join a different denomination–not simply do whatever I chose and still call myself Catholic. Catholicism isn’t a buffet line where by your own pride and wishes you get to decide which dogmas you will follow and which ones you don’t like or want to follow. Tolerance is good—but homosexuality is a grave disorder as is surrogacy, artificial insemination and so on. All are forbidden by the Catholic church–plain and simple. You need to worry a little less about being PC and “tolerant” and a great deal more about following Jesus’ law and saving your soul–no matter how much you hope to make by doing something as wrong as making a baby for a gay couple. Money won’t get you into heaven, but it just might buy you a place in hell!

Jesus wouldn’t have referred to me as ‘you know what they call a woman who’d do just about anything for a few bucks’.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Wow, I never expected to find such judgement (not everyone). How much MONEY am I getting? It’s not about money. I live in Canada, paid surrogacy is illegal. For every penny I receive I have to have a receipt proving it’s a pregnancy related expense, not that that was a factor in my question.

I’m doing what I feel in my heart is right. If being true to the church would mean denying a family to someone, the church loses. If children are truly gifts from God, God has a poorly researched gift list. Perhaps I am being prideful, or selfish, or I’ve already left the church behind. But I believe God’s love is only rivalled by the love of a parent, and in choosing to do this I believe I am honoring God. He created us in His image, gay or straight. If I am wrong, I am prepared to someday answer to Him for that. I’ve been Catholic my whole life, as are my parents and their parents before them, but I have to be true to myself before I can be true to a book that also tells me I can’t eat shellfish.

Are you married? If so have you had your own children?

 

[Joe_5859]

Wow, I never expected to find such judgement (not everyone). How much MONEY am I getting? It’s not about money. I live in Canada, paid surrogacy is illegal. For every penny I receive I have to have a receipt proving it’s a pregnancy related expense, not that that was a factor in my question.

I’m doing what I feel in my heart is right. If being true to the church would mean denying a family to someone, the church loses. If children are truly gifts from God, God has a poorly researched gift list. Perhaps I am being prideful, or selfish, or I’ve already left the church behind. But I believe God’s love is only rivalled by the love of a parent, and in choosing to do this I believe I am honoring God. He created us in His image, gay or straight. If I am wrong, I am prepared to someday answer to Him for that. I’ve been Catholic my whole life, as are my parents and their parents before them, but I have to be true to myself before I can be true to a book that also tells me I can’t eat shellfish.

I am sorry that some of the posts have been quite rude (such as insinuating that you are in this for the money). That type of response is not called for. Most of us mean well. When we see someone come along who is advocating for things that go against Church teaching, we can tend towards defensiveness. Obviously, that’s not going to win you over.

I do somewhat take offense at your final comment, though. It is rather flippant to disregard Scripture en masse because of Old Testament dietary restrictions thereby implying that the whole Book can really be disregarded as a quaint cultural throwback that we cannot take seriously. I hope you can understand how that might strike someone as an insensitive way to speak about the religious text that is foundational to our faith. I’m sure that’s not what you were trying to do, though.

You obviously have very noble intents. Family and children are good things. We can all agree on that. And it is hard not to feel for people who are unable to have biological children on their own.

That said, the means we use to do things matters. We would not kidnap a child (even a child who is otherwise living in poverty with less than stellar parents) to put them with a more loving couple. I know this is not directly comparable to surrogacy, but I use it to illustrate the point that the end does not justify the means. That is a foundational principle of morality. We cannot do evil that good may come of it.

I would encourage you to prayerfully consider what the Church teaching on this matter is. Talk to your priest about it, too. I am constantly humbled by the wisdom I have found in Catholic teaching. It’s not just a set of arbitrary rules meant to keep us down or restrict love. Quite the opposite. It is in those teachings where we consistently see the dignity of the human person most respected and love for all is most fully lived out.

Again, God bless you.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Jesus wouldn’t have referred to me as ‘you know what they call a woman who’d do just about anything for a few bucks’.

Jesus would have tried to convince you not to sin, then He would have offered you a chance to repent. Then he would have either taken you to heaven or hell.

“Go, and sin no more…”

Be very careful when you want to presume to know what the Lord God would say to you. You might find out.

 

[on_the_hill]

but I have to be true to myself before I can be true to a book that also tells me I can’t eat shellfish.

About that: That argument doesn’t get better the more often its used, because it’s as wrong each time as it was the first time. Catholicism isn’t about being true to that book. If you spend some time reading through this forum, you’ll find out that many of those laws, regulations, and restrictions were replaced by the message of the New Testament.

So that’s one law you can ignore and still be happily Catholic.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I have been a lifelong Catholic, albeit a lapsed one. I have been a gestational surrogate for a wonderful married couple and was able to help them have a beautiful son (theirs biologically). My next surrogacy will be for an awesome same-sex couple, and I would like to know the churches teachings on the subject. I am determined to help them have a family, they are as deserving as any traditional couple, and if the church views this as wrong I am prepared to renounce Catholicism and leave the church. I believe Pope Francis’ teachings of tolerance will eventually lead to acceptance of homosexuality and the church will eventually catch up with my beliefs if it hasn’t already

As a single father with full custody I’ll leave the Catholic church and its teachings out of it.

I can not imagine anything more cruel to do to a child than deny it having a mother or father. Although my wife decided to move out when our kids were tweens, and I provide her full access/visitation in my home (every morning during the school year, couple of afternoons and bring dinner once-a-week, and I ensured each kids has a cell phone and she can call them anytime), it has affected them in such a devastating way at the most fundamental level of identity and self-worth, I could never personally do that to a child. Ever.

Kids need a Mom and they need a Dad. I’m male and could never be a Mom. Two gay men are men, they may be even more masculine than myself. The kids going to be missing something fundamental to their basic needs as a human being.

It’s bad enough with no-fault divorce that we do this to kids. That it happens to them. I would never, ever choose this for a child.

In all likelihood your child will forever wonder why their own mother felt so little for them that she could treat them as a commodity, to be given away. That they meant so little to their own mother, just a transaction, just a product.

 

[sw85]

I can not imagine anything more cruel to do to a child than deny it having a mother or father. …

In all likelihood your child will forever wonder why their own mother felt so little for them that she could treat them as a commodity, to be given away. That they meant so little to their own mother, just a transaction, just a product.

Amen. It is child abuse to sell children into the custody of different couples in such a way – to use children for social experiments that alienate them from the civic traditions of their biological parents. Worse, it is a kind of chattel slavery, treating children as goods that can be bought and sold for the profit of parents or gratification of alien couples. I cannot imagine the perversity of thinking that must go into making this sort of thing okay!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As a single father with full custody I’ll leave the Catholic church and its teachings out of it.

I can not imagine anything more cruel to do to a child than deny it having a mother or father. Although my wife decided to move out when our kids were tweens, and I provide her full access/visitation in my home (every morning during the school year, couple of afternoons and bring dinner once-a-week, and I ensured each kids has a cell phone and she can call them anytime), it has affected them in such a devastating way at the most fundamental level of identity and self-worth, I could never personally do that to a child. Ever.

Kids need a Mom and they need a Dad. I’m male and could never be a Mom. Two gay men are men, they may be even more masculine than myself. The kids going to be missing something fundamental to their basic needs as a human being.

It’s bad enough with no-fault divorce that we do this to kids. That it happens to them. I would never, ever choose this for a child.

In all likelihood your child will forever wonder why their own mother felt so little for them that she could treat them as a commodity, to be given away. That they meant so little to their own mother, just a transaction, just a product.

The sad part of this is that she probably doesn’t consider it her child. She considers her body a baby-making machine that she hires out for money. That she is trying to make herself sound noble and selfless in this is a masterpiece of rationalization IMHO.

 

[styrgwillidar]

The sad part of this is that she probably doesn’t consider it her child. She considers her body a baby-making machine that she hires out for money. That she is trying to make herself sound noble and selfless in this is a masterpiece of rationalization IMHO.

No. The sad thing is the children can come to this realization. They wonder if they were just something to boost their Mom’s ego, to give her a good feeling about doing something they view as charitable for someone else. Effectively, the child being a large donation to charity. Or, if it’s for people the Mom knows, the child is a gift— like a microwave, or a nice espresso machine, or maybe an arts and crafts project that took mom a while to build, but still expendable.

Someone posted this link, I have no idea if these folks have been verified as truly the children of surrogacy/donors. But their emotions very much match my children’s feelings towards their mother. It is a horrible thing for a child to wonder what they really meant to their parents, wonder about their origin. It’s why so many adopted children-- even when raised by wonderful, loving parents will research and try and find their biological parents.

anonymousus.org/stories/index.php?cid=2

 

[CHRISTINE77]

No. The sad thing is the children can come to this realization. They wonder if they were just something to boost their Mom’s ego, to give her a good feeling about doing something they view as charitable for someone else. Effectively, the child being a large donation to charity. Or, if it’s for people the Mom knows, the child is a gift— like a microwave, or a nice espresso machine, or maybe an arts and crafts project that took mom a while to build, but still expendable.

Someone posted this link, I have no idea if these folks have been verified as truly the children of surrogacy/donors. But their emotions very much match my children’s feelings towards their mother. It is a horrible thing for a child to wonder what they really meant to their parents, wonder about their origin. It’s why so many adopted children-- even when raised by wonderful, loving parents will research and try and find their biological parents.

anonymousus.org/stories/index.php?cid=2

Very true and good article.

 

[Starrsmother]

Jesus wouldn’t have referred to me as ‘you know what they call a woman who’d do just about anything for a few bucks’.

Jesus would have told you to obey His word however AND not to sin anymore…

 

[CatholicSheila]

Sadly, this woman quit being Catholic long ago—if indeed she ever was Catholic. The idea of deliberately carrying a poor innocent baby to be raised knowingly by a homosexual couple is just horrendous. What a terrible shame. Truly, there is a total lack of even Christianity of any type or even basic humanity it in her choice. I suspect that she’d do just about anything for money and, you know what they call a woman who will do anything for a few bucks. It’s just a shame…

How about some charity? You don’t get to decide who is or isn’t Catholic. I agree that what she is doing is a sin, but we all sin. We’re no less Catholic for it.

 

[on_the_hill]

How about some charity? You don’t get to decide who is or isn’t Catholic. I agree that what she is doing is a sin, but we all sin. We’re no less Catholic for it.

Yeah, but.

Catholics conform to a certain set of beliefs. Presbyterians conform to a different set. Methodists to a different set. And so on.

If a person is going to flout the beliefs of Catholicism to such an extent as OP, that person wouldn’t rightly be part of the group called Catholics.

 

[petra22]

I am sorry that some of the posts have been quite rude (such as insinuating that you are in this for the money). That type of response is not called for. Most of us mean well. When we see someone come along who is advocating for things that go against Church teaching, we can tend towards defensiveness. Obviously, that’s not going to win you over.

I do somewhat take offense at your final comment, though. It is rather flippant to disregard Scripture en masse because of Old Testament dietary restrictions thereby implying that the whole Book can really be disregarded as a quaint cultural throwback that we cannot take seriously. I hope you can understand how that might strike someone as an insensitive way to speak about the religious text that is foundational to our faith. I’m sure that’s not what you were trying to do, though.

You obviously have very noble intents. Family and children are good things. We can all agree on that. And it is hard not to feel for people who are unable to have biological children on their own.

That said, the means we use to do things matters. We would not kidnap a child (even a child who is otherwise living in poverty with less than stellar parents) to put them with a more loving couple. I know this is not directly comparable to surrogacy, but I use it to illustrate the point that the end does not justify the means. That is a foundational principle of morality. We cannot do evil that good may come of it.

I would encourage you to prayerfully consider what the Church teaching on this matter is. Talk to your priest about it, too. I am constantly humbled by the wisdom I have found in Catholic teaching. It’s not just a set of arbitrary rules meant to keep us down or restrict love. Quite the opposite. It is in those teachings where we consistently see the dignity of the human person most respected and love for all is most fully lived out.

Again, God bless you.

Blessed are the peacemakers, Joe. Thanks for being one!

 

[petra22]

As a single father with full custody I’ll leave the Catholic church and its teachings out of it.

I can not imagine anything more cruel to do to a child than deny it having a mother or father. Although my wife decided to move out when our kids were tweens, and I provide her full access/visitation in my home (every morning during the school year, couple of afternoons and bring dinner once-a-week, and I ensured each kids has a cell phone and she can call them anytime), it has affected them in such a devastating way at the most fundamental level of identity and self-worth, I could never personally do that to a child. Ever.

Kids need a Mom and they need a Dad. I’m male and could never be a Mom. Two gay men are men, they may be even more masculine than myself. The kids going to be missing something fundamental to their basic needs as a human being.

It’s bad enough with no-fault divorce that we do this to kids. That it happens to them. I would never, ever choose this for a child.

In all likelihood your child will forever wonder why their own mother felt so little for them that she could treat them as a commodity, to be given away. That they meant so little to their own mother, just a transaction, just a product.

After being a teacher for many years, the truth of this message hit me so hard, I’m sitting here with tears aching for the children…