Surrogate motherhood

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I For instance, how natural are organ transplants? It certainly seems to go against the plan God had for our biological nature to be walking around with other people’s organs inside us, yet this is OK. 🤷
Yes, organ transplants are unnatural acts.
 
…tell me, how ‘normal’ are penile implants?) under any circumstances. For instance, how natural are organ transplants? It certainly seems to go against the plan God had for our biological nature to be walking around with other people’s organs inside us, yet this is OK. 🤷

All I can do is obey and hope to come to some understanding.
The Church does not object to procedures that facilitate normal marital relations and allow for fertilization in the context of this union. It recognizes that medical procedures and devices are not “normal” per se. Neither is surgery to relieve a blocked fallopian tube. They are correcting a medical defect. But for things like penile implants, the sperm is still given to the mother by the father by the marital act and fertilization still occurs within the mother’s womb/fallopian tube. I have never heard of a uterine transplant. It is an interesting question. My guess would be that the Church would find this acceptable.

There are ways in which emerging technologies are starting to blur even the Church’s current instruction on what is ok and what is not.

I am with you momor in obeying where I do not have full understanding.
 
So far I don’t see any actual Church teachings cited… so I thought I’d provide what the Catechism says regarding surrogacy
2376 Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child’s right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses’ "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."167
And other relevant information:
2378 A child is not something owed to one, but is a gift. The “supreme gift of marriage” is a human person. A child may not be considered a piece of property, an idea to which an alleged “right to a child” would lead. In this area, only the child possesses genuine rights: the right “to be the fruit of the specific act of the conjugal love of his parents,” and "the right to be respected as a person from the moment of his conception."170
2379 The Gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others.
Hope that helps!
 
ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=183
Maybe the National Catholic Bioethics center might be of help to you or your brother in explaining why surrogacy and IVF is bad.

Also this:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19870222_respect-for-human-life_en.html

and this:
usccb.org/prolife/programs/rlp/98rlphaa.shtml
usccb.org/LifeGivingLove/IVF-The-Human-Cost.pdf
usccb.org/LifeGivingLove/Reproductive-Technology-Guidelines.pdf

Prayers for this situation and for those in this thread who clearly reject Church teaching…
 
The Church does not object to procedures that facilitate normal marital relations and allow for fertilization in the context of this union. It recognizes that medical procedures and devices are not “normal” per se. Neither is surgery to relieve a blocked fallopian tube. They are correcting a medical defect. But for things like penile implants, the sperm is still given to the mother by the father by the marital act and fertilization still occurs within the mother’s womb/fallopian tube. I have never heard of a uterine transplant. It is an interesting question. My guess would be that the Church would find this acceptable.

There are ways in which emerging technologies are starting to blur even the Church’s current instruction on what is ok and what is not.

I am with you momor in obeying where I do not have full understanding.
I agree with you on technology blurring Church teaching. I think it has already occurred when it comes to sterility. It is my suspicion that the Church’s long held teaching on impotence had as much to do with the resultant infertility as it did with the inability to consumate, both aspects of intercourse were made impossible. However, the Church (not having any way to know the 2 conditions were not related) focused on just the impotence in it’s theology. So when science came up with a way to examine semen and determine they existed separately, the Church was ‘stuck’. Since there was no theology developed on infertility they had to allow infertile but potent men to marry while continuing to deny marriage for those who were fertile but impotent. A distinction and a separation of the procreative and unitive aspects of intercourse that I doubt the Church of even 200 years ago would have accepted in theory.
 
In my brother’s case, he does see and recognize the problem with destruction of embryos. His plans are to fertilize and implant only two embryos. He recognizes that this is a very costly approach that reduces the chances of success. He believes that if this is successful it will be an affirmation that he has done God’s will. You are correct that in practice, IVF usually involves the creation and destruction (or indefinite storage) of embryos. But this does not necessarily need to happen.

IFV is intrinsically evil EVEN IF only embryos to be implanted are generated. The reason the Church gives is that it is evil because it separates the unitive and procreative aspects that need to be present in generation of every new human life. My brother needs help in understanding why IVF violates this principle and why this is an absolute requirement. My attempts to explain this to him have been unsuccessful.
Hi Dr. Paul,
In attempt to get your thread back on topic I will jump in with some ideas for you to share with your brother.

Secular society often compares surrogacy to adoption and on one level they are right. In the case of parents who use surrogates, the biological parents often feel they have adopted their own children. Many seem to never get past the circumstances of the conception. Parents of adoption often forget their child is adopted. IVF parents never do. The stories you read praising IVF and surrogacy show that. It is done out of guilt and despair. Adoption is done in celebration. One of the easy ways to illustrate the difference is that many large families with natural children will go on to adopt. People with many natural children don’t go on to IVF.

IVF feeds on despair; surrogacy, even more so.
 
IVF parents never do. The stories you read praising IVF and surrogacy show that. It is done out of guilt and despair.

That’s not true in the case I know of here. The woman born with no uterus was ecstatic that her sister lovingly bore her children for her, a true “donum vitae”! The sister regards the children as her nephew and niece, not as her son and daughter.
IVF feeds on despair; surrogacy, even more so.
 
That’s the interesting question: explaining why surrogacy and in vitro fertilization are intrinsically evil. I have yet to see a convincing argument in support of that claim. I’m pro-life, so I’m glad that the woman I know whose sister bore her and her husband’s biological children will now have a family to raise in God’s love.
The Church moreover holds that it is ethically unacceptable to dissociate procreation from the integrally personal context of the conjugal act.[29] Cf. Pius XII, Address to the Second World Congress in Naples on human reproduction and sterility (19 May 1956): AAS 48 (1956), 470; Paul VI, Encyclical Letter Humanae vitae, 12: AAS 60 (1968), 488-489; Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Instruction Donum vitae, II, B, 4-5: AAS 80 (1988), 90-94.

Rome has spoken; the case is closed.

-St. Augustine
 
Here’s a strange question. How do you know God didn’t help point the medical doctors who pioneered these procedures in the right direction? Now true the fact that they use more than one egg and can create more than one embryo to better the odds doesn’t make it right if the dr’s sacrifice them to better the chances of one. However, due the emotionally charged issue and the fact that life is both gained and lost with it means that it is a delicate issue and should be reserved to the couple the dr, and God. Afterall, we all answer for what we’ve done in the end.
 
Here’s a strange question. How do you know God didn’t help point the medical doctors who pioneered these procedures in the right direction? Now true the fact that they use more than one egg and can create more than one embryo to better the odds doesn’t make it right if the dr’s sacrifice them to better the chances of one. However, due the emotionally charged issue and the fact that life is both gained and lost with it means that it is a delicate issue and should be reserved to the couple the dr, and God. Afterall, we all answer for what we’ve done in the end.
Quite right. The fertilization must be restricted to the exact number of embryos that will be implanted, and “selective culling” must be recognized for the abortion that it is. As a “pro-lifer” I cannot countenance any destruction of “extra” embryos, even as I celebrate the fact that more souls are brought into the world to be raised in Christian families.

StAnastasia
 
So you think.
I’ll give you something, you’re stubborness in the face of unchanging Church teaching is certainly, umm, disturbing. Your further leading others astray into sin is also very disturbing.
 
That’s not true in the case I know of here. The woman born with no uterus was ecstatic that her sister lovingly bore her children for her, a true “donum vitae”! The sister regards the children as her nephew and niece, not as her son and daughter.

You write this cruel generalization out of sheer ignorance. Have you ever in your life talked to a couple who happily are parents through surrogacy of their own biological offspring?
Wow, really? Yes. Interviewing people and writing about it is what I do. “Cruel generalization?” You have *one *very unusual circumstance that the outcome may or may not be harmful in the long term, and the reality of IVF is a “cruel generalization?” That is not a healthy way to look at morality.

The point I am making has now been proven by you. Of *course *the people who had it “claim happiness.” But their divorce rates prove otherwise. The ends do NOT justify the means. IVF most certainly does feed on despair. That you dismiss that out of hand is very telling. Of all the couples I have tried to talk out of IVF, only one is still married. And those are just the ones I know personally. But they will claim over and over that IVF wasn’t the cause. (And their arguments in favor of it are strikingly similar to those divorced couples who say that contraception wasn’t a problem either.)

Contraception and IVF are two sides of the same coin. One is sex without babies, the other is babies without sex. That disconnect is detrimental to marriage and children.
 
Contraception and IVF are two sides of the same coin. One is sex without babies, the other is babies without sex. That disconnect is detrimental to marriage and children.
I accept that you know more about people who seek IVF than I do as I don’t know anyone, nor have I studied the issue. But I strongly disagree with the conclusion you wrote above. It’s way too simplistic and I don’t even think it’s a good generalization. NFP can also result in sex without babies, and IVF couples can use the technology with limited interruption in their conjugal relationship. I don’t think arguments like this help anyone understand the Church’s teaching. I would see surrogacy as having far greater detrimental effects both on the marriage and the child than IVF alone.

Qualified of course that both are wrong and must be avoided.
 
I’ll give you something, you’re stubborness in the face of unchanging Church teaching is certainly, umm, disturbing. Your further leading others astray into sin is also very disturbing.
I’m sorry you are disturbed, but that is, of course, your right to be so!
 
I accept that you know more about people who seek IVF than I do as I don’t know anyone, nor have I studied the issue. But I strongly disagree with the conclusion you wrote above. It’s way too simplistic and I don’t even think it’s a good generalization. NFP can also result in sex without babies, and IVF couples can use the technology with limited interruption in their conjugal relationship. I don’t think arguments like this help anyone understand the Church’s teaching. I would see surrogacy as having far greater detrimental effects both on the marriage and the child than IVF alone.

Qualified of course that both are wrong and must be avoided.
I certainly agree that surrogacy is even more detrimental than IVF alone. The Church has made that very clear. Surrogacy is two immoral acts, not just one. I have been studying the issue for years. In fact after I posted I went back and read one of the articles that Dr. Paul had liked. The priest also said IVF and contraception were two sides of the same coin. I promise I didn’t plagiarize, it is a commonly known fact.

By referencing NFP I can see where your confusion lies. NFP* isn’t* “sex without babies,” It is infertile sex. It is sex that wasn’t *designed *to make babies. It is still the act of marriage. Your reference to IVF as “limited interruption in their conjugal relationship” is where you can see the error. An act of infertile sex is still a faithful act. An IVF is *not *a faithful act.

Let me explain it another way. If you were to look at a couple who says they were *mostly *faithful to each other over their entire marriage, but had a few one night stands here and there that meant nothing, would you consider that marriage to have been objectively faithful? I would guess, probably not. But if another couple sought out to have sex with someone in the hopes of conceiving baby, would you consider that objectively faithful? It sounds like you might. People have been trying to conceive unfaithfully since the dawn of time. Just because they have removed the pesky “sex with strangers or in-laws” part doesn’t make it more faithful. It just makes it less gross. IVF and contraception are **acts **that break the marriage. They *separate *the marital act (authentic sex) from the natural and primary purpose, which is procreation.
 
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