Survey: Religious superiors support possibility of women deacons

[SeriousQuestion]

This survey isn’t the Vatican either so it should have no bearing on the issue, but that was probably obvious.

 

[thistle]

What is less clear is whether deaconesses were an ordained ministry.

It is crystal clear that deaconesses were NEVER ordained.

 

[thistle]

They can change the words from being ordained to being installed. Then there is no restriction for a woman to be installed as a deaconess.

It won’t happen. People would view that as a step towards the possibility of women being ordained and that is impossible.
Here in the Philippines females are forbidden to be altar servers or EMHC’s (even though other countries may allow it) because if allowed the perception is that they would be in a way functioning as a priest.

 

[OraLabora]

It is crystal clear that deaconesses were NEVER ordained.

We have no evidence of them ever being ordained, but we can’t categorically say that they were never ordained. That would be a non-sequitur.

Without that evidence though, there probably is no grounds for ordaining deaconesses. But that is my assessment. The actual analysis is happening way above my pay grade by people much better trained to do so.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I think it is incorrect to say that they were “ordained” deaconesses.

Women Deacons in Africa; Not in America

History was made on February 17, 2017 when five women were consecrated deaconesses in the Orthodox Church. For many of us, this is a welcome but shocking develo

publicorthodoxy.org

It appears that these women were “blessed” to the diaconate, rather than “ordained,” yet they are being referred to as “deaconesses” rather than “sub-deaconesses.”

 

[thistle]

We have no evidence of them ever being ordained, but we can’t categorically say that they were never ordained. That would be a non-sequitur.

Without that evidence though, there probably is no grounds for ordaining deaconesses. But that is my assessment. The actual analysis is happening way above my pay grade by people much better trained to do s

Yes we can say women have NEVER been ordained in any capacity. To say otherwise is Protestant thinking!

 

[PetraG]

That’s a lot of accusation there!

Religious orders to a lot of good, especially for the most vulnerable around us.

Let’s not get too stressed just because some support women deacons — when in fact that could very much be a possibility, depending on what someone means by “ordain” and “deacon.”

OK, but how do you get to be the superior of a religious order without knowing what the Roman Catholic Church means by “ordain” and “deacon”?

I have this feeling about this poll. I suspect that, as they say in science, “n is a small number.”

 

[dochawk]

We have no evidence of them ever being ordained, but we can’t categorically say that they were never ordained. That would be a non-sequitur.

No, it’s saying that they might have been ordained, when an ecumenical council made clear that they were laity, the is a non-sequitur.

hawk

 

[PetraG]

I don’t know about the Church, but I do know that anything is “possible” when it comes to God. So, I do believe that women deacons and priests may one day be possible.

Pope John Paul II was very clear:
Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32*) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful…
(Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994)

How does a Catholic read that and yet hold on to doubt that this is indeed the case?

• “Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.” (Luke 22:31-32)

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Because he said priestly ordination? Just a guess.

 

[YourNameHere]

All I know it that when I was growing up, eating meat on Fridays was a mortal sin. Now, not so much.
Anything is possible with God. If God wants women to be ordained, they will be ordained as priests.
Instead of insulting me (how can anybody…blah, blah, blah), pray with me.

 

[deMontfort]

All I know it that when I was growing up, eating meat on Fridays was a mortal sin. Now, not so much.
Anything is possible with God. If God wants women to be ordained, they will be ordained as priests.
Instead of insulting me (how can anybody…blah, blah, blah), pray with me.

Nobody insulted you. Oh, and Meatless Friday is/was a discipline, not a doctrine: You need to learn to distinguish.

 

[PetraG]

Because he said priestly ordination? Just a guess.

You said you believe that women priests may one day be possible.

All I know it that when I was growing up, eating meat on Fridays was a mortal sin. Now, not so much.
Anything is possible with God. If God wants women to be ordained, they will be ordained as priests.
Instead of insulting me (how can anybody…blah, blah, blah), pray with me.

If that is “all you know,” it is because you didn’t actually read the passage that pointed out the difference between this matter and abstinence from meat on Fridays, which (like the ordination of married men) is one of those matters that has merely disciplinary force.

It is not an insult to point out what needs to be known for in order to correctly form one’s conscience. The Pope wrote what he wrote in order to help people to understand that, so that they will instead pray to Heaven that not another member of the faithful excommunicate themselves by falling into this grievous error and attempting the ordination of a woman.

Those souls who are already attempting such a thing on the grounds that perhaps “nothing is impossible with God” are the ones that ought to be prayed for:

On June 29, 2002, Romulo Antonio Braschi, founder of a schismatic community, attempted to ordain the following Catholic women to the priesthood: Christine Mayr-Lumetzberger, Adelinde Roitinger, Gisela Forster, Iris Müller, Ida Raming, Pia Brunner and Dagmar Braun Celeste, who on that occasion identified herself as Angela White…… they formally and obstinately reject a doctrine which the church has always taught and lived, and which was definitively proposed by Pope John Paul II, namely, “that the church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women” ( Ordinatio Sacerdotalis , …The denial of this doctrine is rightly considered the denial of a truth that pertains to the Catholic faith and therefore deserves a just penalty (cf. Canons 750 §2; 1372, n. 1; John Paul II, Ad Tuendam Fidem …
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...n_cfaith_doc_20021221_scomunica-donne_en.html

Implying that their actions are not scandalous and grievously harmful to the Church but rather perhaps according to progress ordained from on High is in and of itself harmful to the correct formation of consciences. I am sorry if it insults you to hear it, but we are duty-bound to counsel the doubtful and instruct the ignorant. The things the Popes write for our instruction are not to be written off with a “blah, blah, blah, why don’t you pray with me, instead?” Yes, I’ll pray with you, but Heaven forbid we ever pray for an event to come to pass that we have been so clearly taught is contrary to the Divine Will.

 

[thistle]

If God wants women to be ordained, they will be ordained as priests.

Women will NEVER be ordained. It is impossible. You are Catholic. If you reject this teaching of the Church you will put yourself in a state of mortal sin, and yes, saying it might be possible is a rejection of Church doctrine.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

Because he said priestly ordination? Just a guess.

You said you believe that women priests may one day be possible.

I most certainly DID NOT!

You must be thinking of someone else.

 

[PetraG]

I most certainly DID NOT!

You must be thinking of someone else.

Yes, I was thinking of the someone else I was actually replying to, and that poster said “I do believe that women deacons and priests may one day be possible.”

Women are not going to be ordained to the ministerial priesthood.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

I most certainly DID NOT!

You must be thinking of someone else.

Yes, I was thinking of the someone else I was actually replying to, and that poster said “I do believe that women deacons and priests may one day be possible.”

Women are not going to be ordained to the ministerial priesthood.

I agree which is why I strenuously object to be characterized as someone who believes that women priest are possible!

 

[YourNameHere]

So you are judging me now. Thanks.
And you are saying that the church’s law overrides what God wants. Wow. I did not know the church was the final authority. I thought God is.

 

[YourNameHere]

What I said is that if God wants women to be priests, God will make it happen. It has nothing to do with what the church wants.

 

[YourNameHere]

I don’t believe the minister was Catholic.