Susan Rice requested to unmask names of Trump transition officials, sources say

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Certainly leaking the name and content of the Mike Flynn revelation to the press was a crime.
As to who leaked the info, we have yet to find out.
Rice may be the fall guy.

Two questions comes to mind…
What exactly did the President Obama know? And when did he know it?
Maybe Trump or a close associate leaked the Flynn story. A close associate may have done it out of jealousy or something. Apparently they all knew about Flynn from the get-go and Flynn probably even got his orders to make a deal with the Russians from Trump, or maybe from Bannon or Kushner. And it seems they got the intel that there were issues re Flynn. Or, it could have been one of their girl friends or mistresses…sort of a Mata Hari.
 
It is my sense that Pres. Obama didn’t know what Rice was doing. He didn’t know what Lois Learner was doing in the IRS, either. In fact, he said there is nothing going on over there. AND he didn’t know what Hilary was doing. She was the most qualified woman or MAN to hold the highest office in the land… who the heck was running the country???
👍😉

Either way, this will not go down well with him. If he said he did not know what Rice was doing, especially at that level, it would only affirmed what many people thought of him, Mr. Trump included, that it was a Presidency that did not do anything, so to speak. Yeah, who was running the country then?

But perhaps it is a better way out for him on this. Whatever it is, it would be sad to see a President of the US, albeit a former President, be convicted with felony for the thing he did while in office.
 
Another good read. nationalreview.com/article/446456/susan-rice-unmasking-michael-flynn-legal-abuse-power-intelligence-foreign-targets?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mccarthy&utm_content=rice-follow-up

Some points of importance from the article:

“Minimization instructions, determined by the DOJ and FISA court, are followed when “unmasking.” However, as the article points out” The standard articulated in the minimization instructions is too vague to predicate criminal liability. It requires the masking (or concealment) of the identity of any American incidentally intercepted unless the intelligence value of an intercepted communication cannot be understood without knowing the American’s identity. Within reasonable parameters, that is a subjective judgment call."

Unmasking is usually done at the request of one of the IC agencies, FBI, CIA, or NSA (the collectors/gatherers of intelligence), not by a WH staffer (consumers of intelligence), which Susan Rice was. “Consumers of intelligence sometimes – very rarely, but sometimes — ask the collectors to unmask. Even though the collecting officials know more about their investigations than do consumers (e.g., White House staffers on the National Security Council) of their intelligence reports, it is always possible that the consumers could notice something the collectors missed. Or they could think of an intelligence angle that didn’t occur to the collectors.” "When an American is intercepted, the collecting agencies (FBI, CIA, and NSA) don’t shrug their shoulders and say, “Well, we could provide a marginally better understanding of the meaning of this communication if we revealed the name of the American.” Their practice is more along the lines of: “We don’t reveal the names unless it is absolutely necessary to understanding the communication, and even then, we prefer to use some substitute (e.g. ‘American Diplomat No. 1’) rather than the actual name.”

“The sole purpose of foreign intelligence collection is to understand the actions and intentions of foreign powers and their operatives” - NOT US CITIZENS. “American citizens are not supposed to be the subject of the intelligence collection effort — they are supposed to be protected.”

As the article goes on to point out these are all very important questions:

“Was the questionable unmasking a single, isolated instance, or was it part of a pattern?”

“Did the communications in question have real foreign intelligence value, or were they just blather in which Americans participated or were mentioned — such that it might appear that unmasking the Americans was the objective of the collection effort, not something that was “incidental”?”

“Was there a series of unmaskings of a particular American or group of Americans? After all, it would not seem very “incidental” to collect and unmask the very same people again and again — that would look more like targeting.”

Were standards applied consistently: Was the same unmasking protocol applied to all Americans with equal rigor, or does it appear that some Americans — like maybe . . . Americans connected to Trump — were given less protection than others?”

“While the unmasking was going on, was an unprecedented presidential decision made to disseminate intelligence information very widely across the “community” of 17 intelligence agencies, including to officials with no obvious need to know?” “And while that was going on, were administration officials (including some former ones, like Evelyn Farkas, who left the administration to join the Clinton campaign), pressuring Congress to seek as much disclosure from intelligence community as possible regarding Trump?”
 
Definitely a pattern of unmasking a certain group of Americans. This is targeting and surveillance. Its what got Nunez’ s attention. This is highly unusual.
 
There is no reason yet to conclude that Trump was not literally correct. Time will tell. But whether his and his subordinates’ calls were tapped in Trump Tower or in their homes or elsewhere, is a distinction without meaningful difference.
Well in that case, I suppose we will never know. There is always a chance, however infinitesimally small that something will be discovered someday. In the meantime, the investigators - including Nunes - are saying: nothing supports what Trump said.

As to distinctions. There is a huge difference between the suggestions of direct surveillance of Trump in his home and workplace ostensibly for political advantage vs the incidental collection of intelligence because Trump and friends are involved with persons of interest. And if the Trump folk were unmasked as the investigation of foreign interference in our election continues, so be it. Why shouldn’t they be?
We don’t know yet who all was surveilled. Only those to whom the participants were unmasked know that yet. We only know that they were people on the Trump team in some manner.
Thanks. You don’t know.
 
Definitely a pattern of unmasking a certain group of Americans. This is targeting and surveillance. Its what got Nunez’ s attention. This is highly unusual.
I suppose it is. But as Ambassador McFaul says, so is the level of activity of Trump and company with the Russians under investigation for interference in our election.
 
Susan Rice’s alleged unmasking requests not so routine, ex-officials say

foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/05/susan-rices-alleged-unmasking-requests-not-so-routine-ex-officials-say.html

Reports in unmasking controversy were detailed, had info about ‘everyday lives’
The intelligence reports at the center of the Susan Rice unmasking controversy were detailed, and almost resembled a private investigator’s file, according to a Republican congressman familiar with the documents.
foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/05/reports-in-unmasking-controversy-were-detailed-had-info-about-everyday-lives.html
 
I said in post 87 . . . .
. . . Last month when she (Susan Rice) was asked on the “PBS NewsHour” about reports that Trump transition officials, including Trump himself, were swept up in incidental intelligence collection, Rice said: "I know nothing about this, . . .
Dvdjs. I said (parenthetical addition mine now):
And remember she (Susan Rice) just publicly LIED about it days ago (I think it was a week or two ago. You can find it in my earlier posts if you want specifics). I would have expected a “no comment” to the question she was asked instead of a LIE.
You replied in post 78 . . . .
Actually she said, immediately after the comments of Nunes, that she had knowledge of what she was talking about. You should find the full question and the full response and stop falling victim to the gotcha spin of the alt-media. you may not have an agenda, but they do.
But that’s a partial truth dvdjs.

Here is from my post 7 (here). . . .
. . . Last month when she (Susan Rice) was asked on the “PBS NewsHour” about reports that Trump transition officials, including Trump himself, were swept up in incidental intelligence collection, Rice said: "I know nothing about this," adding, “I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that account today.” . . .
bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel

(Here is my post number 7.)

It appears as though Susan Rice lied initially.

Then later when it was evident she was lying she backtracked.

Susan Rice has a history of this type of behavior and thus is not (in my opinion) worthy of my unfettered trust as a public servant and credible source of information.

Regardless of what I think, she MAY be in a lot of trouble here.

Dvdjs. You said in post 111 . . .
The PBS interview was not live; it was edited and did not include the full question and answer. PBS has posted the full question and answer. What was asked and what was answers are different from what has been wildly trumped up and propagated on the alt-media sites, and parroted here.
My question is, what are you talking about?

Here is the full exact transcript (I read the whole interview and heard most of it, and I still have no idea what you are alluding to).

pbs.org/newshour/bb/susan-rice-world-wonders-worries-white-house-can-trusted/

(And if that link ever goes dead here is the archive)

archive.is/7ay5j

So again. What are you referring to when you said: "What was asked and what was answers (sic) are different" from what has been “wildly trumped up and propagated on the alt-media sites, and parroted here”.

Was Bloomberg (or PBS) the “wildly trumped up” and “alt-media” sites? (Because Bloomberg was the only site I got that quote from).
 
This is serious business. Can we call this cheating since we now know such detailed reports confirm what President Trump about surveillance . I thought just the names was going to far, but detailed reports on their everyday lives? That’s surveillance folks, no getting around it . I think it is dangerous times when the opposition party stoops this low and now just blows it off.
 
Fascinating. Shifty until proven innocent.
And IOW-----
There is circumstantial evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians (which there might be)----

But when it comes to circumstantial evidence that the Clintons are guilty of rape, drug dealing, and even murder, it’s all a right-wing lie and you are “innocent until proven guilty.”

I guess Paula Jones and especially Juanita Broaddrick are simply evil witches out of a horror movie to you. The sluts. 🤷 :rolleyes:
 
I recall what President Obama said in 2012 in regards to (what was seen by some as betraying) our NATO allies to incoming Russian President Putin (via at the time, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev).

President Obama was preoccupied with Russia.

Obama was “hot miced” saying something to the Russians that at least on the surface, sounded like HE could be colluding with Russia (I am not suggesting he did collude by the way. I am just saying you can say things to people and get very different interpretations and clarity is reasonable.)

Obama was discussing the missle defense (“particularly with missile defense”) of Europe (in a semi-public setting by the way), and he stated:
“This is my last election . . . After my election I have more flexibility,”
“I understand. I will transmit your message to Vladimir" replied Medvedev.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=MNxEDomUlXw

m.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

From Reuters . . .
Mon Mar 26, 2012 | 3:06pm EDT
Obama tells Russia’s Medvedev more flexibility after election
President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have “more flexibility” to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.
Obama, during talks in Seoul, urged Moscow to give him “space” until after the November ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.
The unusually frank exchange came as Obama and Medvedev huddled together on the eve of a global nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital, unaware their words were being picked up by microphones as reporters were led into the room.
U.S. plans for an anti-missile shield have bedeviled relations between Washington and Moscow despite Obama’s “reset” in ties between the former Cold War foes. Obama’s Republican opponents have accused him of being too open to concessions to Russia on the issue. . . .
reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-obama-medvedev-idUSBRE82P0JI20120326

The missle defense system Obama contextually was suggesting to delay had to do with protection of Europe.

Now people are going to reply saying, “Obama was the President. Why shouldn’t he be preoccupied with Russia!”

And all I am saying is did the intelligence agencies take that into consideration with the very real possibility of President Trump too?

Have some of the Trump detractors on this form (not necessarily on this thread) give President Trump the same leeway?
 
In fact if one thinks about it, when Rice was asking for persons to be unmasked, that means she didn’t know who they were. I don’t know why that point isn’t being brought up.

However, it IS very important that all suspects who may have been involved in national security harms or criminal activities be unmasked at least by those in authority to do so, and then if enough evidence shows they did indeed do something wrong their names should be made public. We can’t just let people get by with things.

When you think about it the really bad criminals and killers are the rich high on the corporate ladders who cause more property loss, white collar and corporate crime, harms, and deaths than street criminals. I think the number is about 10 times more deaths and a vastly huge amount of financial/property harm more than street criminals cause.

If Susan Rice found out some people who were implicated in threats to national security or any other criminal activities, good for her.

I think the whole reason the Trump admin is causing this stir as if Susan Rice were the guilty one is because they know they are guilty and want to create a smokescreen to hide behind.
👍
 
Well in that case, I suppose we will never know. There is always a chance, however infinitesimally small that something will be discovered someday. In the meantime, the investigators - including Nunes - are saying: nothing supports what Trump said.

As to distinctions. There is a huge difference between the suggestions of direct surveillance of Trump in his home and workplace ostensibly for political advantage vs the incidental collection of intelligence because Trump and friends are involved with persons of interest. And if the Trump folk were unmasked as the investigation of foreign interference in our election continues, so be it. Why shouldn’t they be?
Thanks. You don’t know.
Why those faithful to Trump or those who have his back on this can’t understand the bolded part is beyond me. I think Lynn may be onto something. It’s a smokescreen to hide behind.
 
As I said earlier in the thread, I am NOT saying Susan Rice committed a crime here (she MAY HAVE, but she may not have too).

I found out earlier today that even Rush Limbaugh gives Susan Rice this possible benefit of a doubt!

dailyrushbo.com/rush-very-clear-obama-admin-spied-on-trump-and-susan-rice-is-lying-because-both-of-those-things-happened-before/

(From dailyrushbo.com)
The Susan Rice story continues, it builds and so forth, and a lot of people are trying to make her actions criminal when they may not be per se. Clearly you have abuses of power here.
Bold mine.

So I would like some clarity dvdjs on these “wildly trumped up and propagated” items dvdjs.
 
Why those faithful to Trump or those who have his back on this can’t understand the bolded part is beyond me. I think Lynn may be onto something. It’s a smokescreen to hide behind.
Rep. King said these reports are very detailed about people’s lives. This was not caught up incidental. This was targeting. I believe Lynn is incorrect because the smokescreen is this Russian collusion thing. Susan Rice is the key to the real deception. I would throw Evelyn Farkas in there too.

Schiff won’t even comment even to deny what King said!
 
In fact if one thinks about it, when Rice was asking for persons to be unmasked, that means she didn’t know who they were. I don’t know why that point isn’t being brought up.

However, it IS very important that all suspects who may have been involved in national security harms or criminal activities be unmasked at least by those in authority to do so, and then if enough evidence shows they did indeed do something wrong their names should be made public. We can’t just let people get by with things.

When you think about it the really bad criminals and killers are the rich high on the corporate ladders who cause more property loss, white collar and corporate crime, harms, and deaths than street criminals. I think the number is about 10 times more deaths and a vastly huge amount of financial/property harm more than street criminals cause.

If Susan Rice found out some people who were implicated in threats to national security or any other criminal activities, good for her.

I think the whole reason the Trump admin is causing this stir as if Susan Rice were the guilty one is because they know they are guilty and want to create a smokescreen to hide behind.
NO. It’s would be a clear abuse of power by Susan Rice. The SOLE purpose of foreign intel collection is to understand the workings and intentions of foreign powers and their operatives, not US citizens. If the government wants to understand the actions and intentions of American citizens, there are two proper and LEGAL ways to go about doing so, and it’s not through “incidental” foreign intel spying. It’s by (1) conducting a criminal investigation in which the American citizens can be targeted for court-authorized surveillance based on probable cause of a crime, or (2) conduct a FISA investigation in which the American citizens can be targeted for court-authorized surveillance based on probable cause that they are acting as agents of a foreign power. And if neither of those two alternatives is chosen, then American citizens are not supposed to be the subject of the intelligence collection effort, they are supposed to be protected.
 
I wonder how long will it take the spin machine to claim Russians hacked the WH computer logs to make it look like Rice was accessing masked intelligence?
 
I wonder how long will it take the spin machine to claim Russians hacked the WH computer logs to make it look like Rice was accessing masked intelligence?
They are seeing Russians everywhere these days! lol
 
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