Sweden Moves to Ban Homeschooling for Religious or Philosophical Reasons

[Pug]

General parental drunkeness is a topic I don’t choose to discuss.

I think anything that violates a kid’s legal right to an education is significant.

I’m not sure children have a legally recognized right to an education. Most children in the USA are allowed to attend a public school for free, up to a certain age, I do know this. That is not the same thing.

Do they have such a legally enumerated right here in the USA?

 

[Robert_Bay]

GENERAL NOTICE

This thread is wandering off topic. Please return to the topic: Sweden Moves to Ban Homeschooling for Religious or Philosophical Reasons

 

[1catholic]

I’m not sure children have a legally recognized right to an education. Most children in the USA are allowed to attend a public school for free, up to a certain age, I do know this. That is not the same thing.

Do they have such a legally enumerated right here in the USA?

I do think they are required to go until sixteen

 

[Corki]

• “It is not proper for the state to completely prevent homeschooling even if the parent is not going to be a good teacher. And it is not reasonable for the state to force a parent to put a child in the public school system if the parent doesn’t want the child to be there.”*

See. Some folks would sacrifice the kids.

Cute. You left out the first part of the paragraph making this quote look like something entirely differenent than what I said. The entire quote is:

IF (and its a very big IF) the parent is not capable of educating the kids, the state might have an obligation to insist on supplementation or support. It is not proper for the state to completely prevent homeschooling even if the parent is not going to be a good teacher. And it is not reasonable for the state to force a parent to put a child in the public school system if the parent doesn’t want the child to be there.

If the state were to intervene by forcing a child into public school, THAT would be sacrificing the kids. The government has only one tool for education – public school. Parents have many options. If, and again this would be incredibly rare, a child was not making any progress and it happened to be in a state that demanded proof of progress, a reasonable requirement might be to have the parents use a more structured curriculum OR to use a program where an advisor grades and guides OR one of the programs developed with the state (such as William Bennet’s K-12) OR to use a co-op for some courses, etc. Forcing public school would not be looking at what is best for the child and for the family.

In the Sweeden situation, their goal seems to be to make sure that all children are part of the government controlled education system. The NEA, by the way, has the same goal. Germany has a similar law. It is almost always illegal to homeschool there. In Germany, they are quite open about the fact that they do this in order to instill a uniform culture and perspective in children. The OP link did not give enough information to claim that that is the motivation in Sweeden as well.

In the US, although there is a government monopoly on educational dollars, each district develops their own style of delivering the national and state standards-based content. There is enough variety that if you were very unhappy, you could theoretically move to a district with a curriculum that was a better match for your child. You could set up multiple households to meet the needs of your multiple children with different learning needs. OR you can homeschool. In most European countries moving to a different town is not going to change much. So, if this law is passed, in Sweeden there will be one way to edcuate children and only one.

 

[WillieWonka]

Do you also agree that solvents, alcohol, drugs, etc can all have a severe impact upon a child’s education?

God Bless.

Chris.

Yes.

 

[WillieWonka]

What about a parents legal right to be parents?

I get that you don’t “care” as long as the kids get educated. But as the thread was originally on Sweden (not the US) where home schooling might be banned for “religious or philosophical reasons” don’t the parents here have the right to teach there kids (since we are not discussing drunkenness or abuse)

1. I’m not aware of any law that prevents or authorizes anyone from becoming a parent.
2. What happens in Sweden has no legal effect on what happens here.

 

[WillieWonka]

That’s very nice that you wish them the best of luck, unfortunately Sweden won’t wish them luck.

Instead the State will require the parent to prove there are extraordinary circumstances like the article says.

You continue to blur the issue.

I don’t speak for Sweden.

 

[WillieWonka]

I’m not sure children have a legally recognized right to an education. Most children in the USA are allowed to attend a public school for free, up to a certain age, I do know this. That is not the same thing.

Do they have such a legally enumerated right here in the USA?

They are legally mandated to attend school, and enforcement mechanisms are in place to ensure they do. State law says they must attend. If parents resist, kids are taken from the home. Nobody can interfere with the kid’s right to an education. No parent, no religion.

Most states have a variety of ways to fulfill the education requirement. Home schooling is one of them.

 

[WillieWonka]

I just read down to the warning from the moderator and am leaving this dscussion. Sorry for the posts after the time the warning was issued. Thanks for an interesting discussion.

 

[Ghoti]

Good points.

However, if a public school education guarantees nothing, we have no reason to presume parents educated by the public school are competent to teach their kids.

I do support presures that work. I do not support allowing illiterate and incompetent parents to teach. That is not an effective pressure and contributes to the problem.

In my high school, the final exams for graduation from high school were not administered by the school – or even the school board – but the State, in what was known as Public Exams. The upside of this was that teachers could not “teach to the exam”, i.e. basically drill exam answers into the students’ heads.

We had the same(-ish) system in the CF. I did a lot of instruction at my home unit and at the Communications School in Kingston. As an instructor, I drafted all my own lesson plans, based on the course training plan (CTP) developed by the CF Training System and with reference to all the necessary publications and equipment. These lesson plans had to be sent to Standards Cell prior to instruction. The “exams” (called “Performance Objective Checks”) were drafted, held, and issued by Standards Cell for our Squadron – not even the instructors knew what was going to be asked. So we could not teach to the PO Check, so we had to teach to the CTP. As well, Standards monitored each instructor’s classes – especially the newer, less experienced instructors – to ensure that the CTP and the lesson plans were being adhered to.

A similar system could be done on “civvy street” to ensure that homeschooled kids get an education to an acceptable standard – for example, what would constitute an acceptable demonstrated standard of proficiency in physics for a Grade X student? And the state could do like I mentioned above – Public Exams (or their equivalent).

An upshot of homeschooling is that you can get individualized instruction, rather than the conform-or-be-cast-out system that flourishes whenever a particular system seen as being timely, progressive and new (and ultimately one-size-fits-all) is foisted on the schools, only to be replaced by a new and “better” system a few years later.

The fact that “special needs” students’ special needs are not being met should be a warning that the cookie-cutter approach only works for one type of cookie. I remember watching a documentary on a proponent of a particular teaching method, “math drills” I believe. Now while his teaching method seems (by contemporary standards) conservative and strict, it in fact produced good results with a number of students; and he was not a proponent of universal application, but as a tool for use when it worked. Unfortunately, his system got chucked because it apparently did not fit in with the newer, more progressive system that was being adopted by local schools.

As a child with ADHD (undiagnosed until I was 30), I certainly would have benefited greatly from some alternative methods of instruction. I flourished when I had a teacher who was interested in my performance and could devote some time to my problems. I wilted, on the other hand, under my Grade III teacher who regularly phone my mother in a hysteria, telling her I belonged in an institution. And I was later nearly destroyed – mentally, emotionally and physically – in a school whose encouragement of students was limited to those who could continue its 100+ year history of athletic achievement, and all else be damned. (I was saved, later, by going to a Jesuit high school.) My experience with cookie-cutters has left me feeling more like the bits left over.

And I say this as a person who does not have children – nor probably will at my age, Zechariah notwithstanding – so as they say down south, I don’t have a dog in this race. And as a Canadian born east of Calgary, I’m a bit of a leftie by cultural inclination, not a gubmint-phobe. I’m just putting in my 2¢.

 

[Michael_C]

I don’t speak for Sweden.

The topic of the thread is not “WillieWonka wants homeschooling banned because parents are incompetant”. Stay on subject.

 

[Mimi]

I’m not sure children have a legally recognized right to an education. Most children in the USA are allowed to attend a public school for free, up to a certain age, I do know this. That is not the same thing.

Do they have such a legally enumerated right here in the USA?

It varies from state to state. AFAIK, it is up to each state to regulate its own schools including what constitutes a private school, which is what home schools are under in my state.

I think the current administration will do what it can to move toward making being educated a basic human right in order to gain more control in people’s lives, thus it will have to eliminate private schools. Can’t have anyone falling through the cracks, can we (she said somewhat sarcastically).

The state can make no further demands on private schools (or home schoolers) than the requirements for public schools. Thus, in my state, each parent must sign a legal affadavit (sp?) which states 875 hrs of instruction will be given each year in the following six subject areas …

It does NOT say the child(ren) must be EDUCATED to any certain level, just as gov’t schools can only demand the child(ren) be SCHOOLED, i.e., attend school – they will not guarantee the students will be educated to a certain proficiency level.

Frankly, with all the bomb scares (mostly fake), peer pressure, drug availability, disrespect for teachers (and I mean by parents, too), rampant immorality, predator teachers, and just having to deal with a huge crowd of humanity almost every day is quite enough to convince me that home schooling should remain an option. It’s easier if you start early, find what works for you, and connect with others who can help with support.

Frankly, it wasn’t homeschooling that I found difficult, or rather, challenging; it was a joy to watch my kids grow and learn, and to be able to be with them for the best hours of their day. It was the usual “dealing with life” issues that everyone contends with. But that’s me! I suppose I’m more of a natural teacher, though I do have a degree in music ed. I know many other moms who are natural teachers, or who can learn to provide a learning atmosphere for their kids. As I stated before, kids are natural-born learners. Many times all it takes is to give them interesting things to do and materials they can mess around with, and trust that you will be able to help them find the answers to their questions.

Back to the Original Topic:
I am saddened to see that Sweden has made this move to put an extra burden on home schoolers. I pray that people who want to try it will not have to give up any more freedoms than they already have to give their children what they perceive to be the best education.

Mimi
veteran (retired) homeschool parent of 3

 

[Pug]

The state can make no further demands on private schools (or home schoolers) than the requirements for public schools. Thus, in my state, each parent must sign a legal affadavit (sp?) which states 875 hrs of instruction will be given each year in the following six subject areas …

It does NOT say the child(ren) must be EDUCATED to any certain level, just as gov’t schools can only demand the child(ren) be SCHOOLED, i.e., attend school – they will not guarantee the students will be educated to a certain proficiency level.

Mimi,

Thanks for answering me, and the others who answered me. So it is more of a time and bodies in chairs requirement, not an education requirement (the successful/suitable imparting of formation, knowledge, skills, etc.). Sorry to be off-topic!

I suppose a move to ban certain types of education that are actually education, then, is perhaps is a moved based upon philosophy alone on Sweden’s part. I had a friend argue to me once that it was bad to allow school choice because it allowed the advantaged kids to be siphoned away, leaving the environment for the other kids more impoverished, due to the loss of their peers. Maybe Sweden is trying to make it so that everyone gets the same thing, and no child be allowed a different opportunity than other kids.

 

[LutheranDK]

I just read down to the warning from the moderator and am leaving this dscussion. Sorry for the posts after the time the warning was issued. Thanks for an interesting discussion.

Am I the only one who thinks that this sudden decision to leave has something to do with post #204 calling ol’ Willie’s lies?