Swiss Catholics call for same-sex partnerships, change in teaching on Communion [CWN]

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Louie1983 said:
Divorce is a sin as per the CCC below.

2384** Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law.** It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. :
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I thought that the CCC is correct on this and that divorce is a grave offense.
 
adrift said:
I don’t know what point you are trying to make. As I pointed out, there have been changes before. If you are trying to say that this is a change in moral teaching than you are wrong this is a matter of discipline not moral change. Disciplines have changed. Many confuse these two issues.
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The Swiss Catholics may be calling for further changes in the discipline.
 
I foresee mass-excommunication.

A pity that our brothers and sisters are so fallen away…
 
adrift said:
No they are not just asking for a change of discipline but in a change in morality.
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Do the Swiss Bishops call it that, or do they believe that what they are considering is a development, similar to the development in the practice of whether or not to allow non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion.
Where did the bishops ever say that they are trying to change morality?
 
Tomdstone said:
Do the Swiss Bishops call it that, or do they believe that what they are considering is a development, similar to the development in the practice of whether or not to allow non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion.
Where did the bishops ever say that they are trying to change morality?
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Development of doctrine and discipline are different, The church isn’t changing any doctrine or beliefs. It’s simply choosing to expand it’s message of truth.

The bishops are trying to change morailty when they make statements like:

"The exclusion of remarried divorcees from the sacraments must be ended,”

and “partnerships for gays and lesbians should have a place in the Church,”

The messages they are sending here are in no way in harmony with church teaching or tradition.
 
Louie1983 said:
Development of doctrine and discipline are different, The church isn’t changing any doctrine or beliefs. It’s simply choosing to expand it’s message of truth.

The bishops are trying to change morailty when they make statements like:

"The exclusion of remarried divorcees from the sacraments must be ended,”

and “partnerships for gays and lesbians should have a place in the Church,”

The messages they are sending here are in no way in harmony with church teaching or tradition.
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Sadly this is true.
 
Originally Posted by Louie1983 View Post
Development of doctrine and discipline are different, The church isn’t changing any doctrine or beliefs. It’s simply choosing to expand it’s message of truth.
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The bishops are trying to change morailty when they make statements like:
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"The exclusion of remarried divorcees from the sacraments must be ended,”
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and “partnerships for gays and lesbians should have a place in the Church,”
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The messages they are sending here are in no way in harmony with church teaching or tradition.
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adrift said:
Sadly this is true.
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To be clear, I am sad that the Bishops are promoting statements like this. It won’t be the first time that the Church has faced a crisis probably not the last. As stated this is not in harmony with the Church teaching. The Holy Spirit is with the Church as evidence of the other crisis the Church has been through.
 
LongingSoul said:
Pope Francis invited the Catholics of the world to express their thoughts on these topics. It’s fairly easy to see he wants to know how people are hurting, what they are finding difficulty with and what seeds of wisdom can come from the sensus fidelium. The basis of all this is not an organised attack on doctrine by people uninvited. It’s the Church being the ‘hospital’ listening to ‘symptoms’ in the interests of a ‘diagnosis’ and spiritual/theological ‘treatment’.
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Just so that there is no misunderstanding regarding sensus fidelium, it is not the majority opinion of those who might be unhappy with the church. It is defined as a “spiritual instinct that enables the believer to judge spontaneously whether a particular teaching or practice is, or is not, in conformity with the Gospel and with apostolic faith.” Only those who have conformed their lives to the Church and submitted their hearts to her total teaching may have benefit of this by virtue of the gift of faith.

I’ve suspected that perhaps it is just this “sixth sense” of the faithful that has given rise to the dismay we are witnessing regarding the proposals discussed in the synod and the opposition to it. It is not knowledge per se, (one needs not be a theologian) but rather a spontaneous reaction as to whether or not something conforms to the truth. The sensus fidei has had great import in the history of the Church. No doubt it was beneficial to the faithful during the Arian crisis when they heard many of their own bishops declare that Christ was not divine!

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_20140610_sensus-fidei_en.html
 
One of the poisonous fruits of democracy is that it makes people believe that the will of the people can change the teachings of the Church whereas the Church is in actuality a monarchy and one must bend and kiss the ring whatever one believes.
 
Louie1983 said:
Development of doctrine and discipline are different, The church isn’t changing any doctrine or beliefs. It’s simply choosing to expand it’s message of truth.

The bishops are trying to change morailty when they make statements like:

"The exclusion of remarried divorcees from the sacraments must be ended,”

and “partnerships for gays and lesbians should have a place in the Church,”

The messages they are sending here are in no way in harmony with church teaching or tradition.
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It is your opinion that they are trying to change morality. I don;t see where they claim to be doing so.
 
MODERATOR WARNING

The rhetoric on this thread is going beyond the bounds of charitable discussion and some members are accusing clergy of things they have not done.

Remember all posts are to be charitable at all times and do not attack Catholic clergy. If you are about to write something uncharitable, stop. Give the bishops the benefit of the doubt.
 
Tomdstone said:
So there has been a change in teaching on who can receive Holy Communion and what exceptions can be made. The Swiss Catholics are calling for further changes.
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Exceptions not change !! If I’m not mistaken they are not heretics and have valid Sacraments. The Swiss are calling for a change in Doctrine not exceptions. Big difference. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
Exceptions not change !! If I’m not mistaken they are not heretics and have valid Sacraments. The Swiss are calling for a change in Doctrine not exceptions. Big difference. God Bless, Memaw
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I don’t see where they regard this as a change in doctrine.
 
LongingSoul said:
Pope Francis invited the Catholics of the world to express their thoughts on these topics. It’s fairly easy to see he wants to know how people are hurting, what they are finding difficulty with and what seeds of wisdom can come from the sensus fidelium. The basis of all this is not an organised attack on doctrine by people uninvited. It’s the Church being the ‘hospital’ listening to ‘symptoms’ in the interests of a ‘diagnosis’ and spiritual/theological ‘treatment’.
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People in every century are always “hurting”. Usually when we are “hurting” it is because we fail to follow good instruction. Smokers are “hurting” when they see commercials on TV that remind them of the damage smoking does. Should we stop the “hurting” by ending anti-smoking commercials?

My feelings were “hurting” when I went to the doctor and he put a diagnosis on me, “obese”. He said as a result of that diagnosis, I should eat less, and exercise more. “Hurt”! I am tempted to say he should drop the diagnosis and change the weight scale, to match up with me (and other baby boomers) the way most of us are now. But down deep I know this would not benefit me, I need to lose weight. Conversion is the real way to stop the hurting.

Millions of children are “hurting” now because marriage has been ridiculed or cast aside by much of society, and clergy of all denominations are afraid to affirm its indissolubility. The hurting of the children of divorce, not to mention same sex unions or common law unions, is unheard cry in this debate. They pay the price for the liberal theologians.

I suspect Christ was advised by some people to ease up on divorce, and it would help his movement grow. The Church should be faithful to Christ, and not the media.
 
commenter said:
The hurting of the children of divorce, not to mention same sex unions or common law unions, is unheard cry in this debate. They pay the price for the liberal theologians.

I suspect Christ was advised by some people to ease up on divorce, and it would help his movement grow. The Church should be faithful to Christ, and not the media.
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But the Church has eased up on reasons for granting a marriage annulment. In 1929, there were 9 annulments granted per year in the USA, whereas in recent years it has run as high as 50,000 in the USA. Note: whether the couple gets divorced or has its marriage annulled, the result is the same for the children.
 
Tomdstone said:
So there has been a change in teaching on who can receive Holy Communion and what exceptions can be made. The Swiss Catholics are calling for further changes.
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the church teaching hasn’t changed. The status of those receiving has changed.

I remember when the whole Church was calling for lifting the ban on artificial contraception. It didn’t happen. Pope Paul VI did not go with the majority. The Holy Spirit will continue to protect and guide the Church.
 
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