Tackling Predestination

[Bengoshi]

Hi Procorus

I came Across this Predestination 3 Months Ago on the web: On Google Videos. Predestination is the only way to Heaven: Jim Brown. I have not studied Calvin Yet.
But i Have studied Augustine So i Know where you are coming from.
My Head at the moment is stuck in this Area.

OK God Has a right to Condemn all of us because we are Evil.
But we are BORN that way it is not our fault that we are born that way
To choose Some and give them them Grace to have the ability to have a will to serve him and go to heaven.
To allow the rest to continue as the are with no Grace and no ability to have no will to serve him and go to hell.

Logically to me this does seem unfair and unjust.

The Ones that are saved can say thank you God for everything you have done for me so i can be saved.

But the ones that are not saved will be saying. we were born this way and was not given
anything to give us the ability to be saved. we had no chance in the first place.

We cannot say that we are born this way, hence it is not our fault. Remember, we inherited the sinful nature from Adam and Eve who did not have that sinful nature when they were created. As our representatives, we also are at fault for having a sinful nature. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23).

 

[benedictus2]

Hi Benedictus

I agree with you that God would have been nasty Just to leave me on my merry path away from him and separated from him. when i was fit and young playing snooker. I could not give it up. The cancer was a wake up call. Nasty was the wrong word. But God can be a bit harsh and severe when he is dealing with us. I am left with a bit of a Infirmity and weakness with it all. God is Right when we are weak he becomes strong in us. God has certainly Got my attention.

I am reminded of St Bernadette. St Bernadette was the little girl to whom Our Lady appeared to at Lourdes.

So many were cured at the springs of Lourdes and yet she would die of bone cancer. In all this time she held fast to her love of God and Our Lady.

Yes, in our infirmity, God shows His strength and makes us aware that we are ever in need of His grace that we may not boast.

When we bear with suffering gladly, God uses this to bring out even more good in this world. Our sufferings borne well can lead to conversion of souls in manners both mysterious and beautiful.

 

[benedictus2]

We cannot say that we are born this way, hence it is not our fault. Remember, we inherited the sinful nature from Adam and Eve who did not have that sinful nature when they were created. As our representatives, we also are at fault for having a sinful nature. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23).

Hmm, it seems that Shaky is better at looking at this logically.

Of course we can say we are born this way if we inherited it from our parents.

Say, let’s suppose that psychopathy is completely hereditary such that the child of a psychopath is guaranteed to become a psychopath. Can the child not say, well, I am a psychopath because I was born this way?

That is exactly what you have just explained above.

If we are are born this way since as you said we inherited the sinfulness from our first parents, then how can it be our fault.? **You say you are a lawyer so you should know that fault/guilt is only imputable where something is freely willed. **That is why even in the human courts of law there is such a thing as reduced accountability due to external circumstances.

The only time it ceases to be our fault is if though born this way, our will remains free and are capable of choosing what is good and right.

And once again you use the Bible erroneously. Have babies sinned?

 

[benedictus2]

Regeneration is a secret act of God in which he imparts new spiritual life to us. This is sometimes called “being born again”.

What does it mean to be “born again”? What is the nature of this new spiritual life?

 

[benedictus2]

Hi benedictus

We have to take in account that God knows the future. we have got the accounts of the prophets with over 300 prophecies coming true. These prophecies where explained in exact detail. Down to names of people, places names of cities, and what is going to happen in exact detail. These prophecies came about 300 400 500 600 700 800 years later. The prophecies of Isaiah: Of Jesus: His crucifixion. his burial. his resurrection is remarkable: The detail of it. I read in the bible that Jesus was predestined.
Also there are prophecies to be fulfilled and also Revelation to be fulfilled.
So he cant be Just Liveing in the Eternal now

You said somewhere that God is not the cause of Evil.

To be the cause of something, one has to actively will it and put it into action.  God does not actively will evil even though He does allow it .

Evil, as St Augustine rightly put it, is nothing more than an absence of good. Evil exists when we are separated from God, the Sum of All Goodness.

The question about putting the TKGE instead of just leaving the TL in the garden is one that has bogged my brother as well.

The TKGE is not of itself the problem, you see. The problem was that there was a Great Prohibition (do not eat this one) along with the Great Permission (you may eat freely of the all the trees). So what this really boils down too is that God has decreed that something must not be done and yet man chooses not to obey in humility. Man in effect refused to be humus (of the earth) and wanted to grasp at diety rather than accept diety as a gift from God.

As someone said (I can’t remember who) Sin is sin because God said so. Eating the fruit of TKGE would not be bad if God had said eat of the TKGE.

Also Good is in the forbidden fruit. If Adam and Eve did not Eat forbidden fruit they would have no Knowledge of either good or evil
It would have been a different thing altogether.

This part of Genesis is one of my favourites because it is so rich.

Chapter 3 opens with “Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the animals that the LORD God had made.” In other translations the word “subtle” is used in place of “cunning”. Either way, it conveys the idea of “stealth”.

What does the devils temptation consist of ? It is a temptation to self deification. It goes: “No, God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad."

Notice here that subtle lie in the words “gods”. Not God but gods, implying that there are other gods when Adam and Eve had only ever met the One True God.

So the temptation is really two fold. The devil proposes a lie. Adam and Eve have been friends with God and yet they readily believe this promise of the devil. God said they will die, the devil says “nope God is lying, you will live, more than that you will be like him.”

So it seems the devil must have tapped into something that is deep within them, the desire to be as gods. But the thing about it, is now they have someone else to blame (Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the devil) should they eat.

This speaks very much about us and how we tend to buck-pass when we’ve done wrong. The first thing we do when we know we have done wrong is how to make up the best excuse so we can get away free and not be blamed.

This also highlights how the devil will always dress his temptations as movements towards the good. Adam and Eve thought how can knowing good and evil be bad. How can becoming like god be bad? We see this in how we rationalize our evil actions. The decision to commit adultery is rationalized as a “love” for the mistress. How can after all “love” be bad? Women kill their very own babies in their womb and rationalize it as “freedom of choice” and because “I would not be able to support them” or “my other children need me”.

The second take is that to know good and evil in this sense is to actually have experiential knowledge of these two. Before the fall, there was no experiential knowledge of evil (they were not fazed by their nakedness), but come the fall and they finally had an encounter with evil, for they have disobeyed and thus turned away from the Sum of All Goodness.

Why would it be Gods Plan before Jesus was Born to have something Evil happen to Jesus like Crucifixion.

The Crucifixion is only Evil seen from our eyes, for we see suffering as an evil in itself. But the Crucifixion is actually the greatest Good for in it we see Man finally obeying God to the point of death. The greatest good is to submit our wills to the will of God for it was wilfullness that got us in this quagmire in the first place.

This is why I cannot believe how some can propose pre-destination to damnation. Why would a God who would go to such lengths as to become human and die on the cross that we might be saved, pre-destine anyone to hell? It just defies reason.

 

[benedictus2]

I hope when we Live in heaven there will No Forbidden fruit about so we can get thrown out and lose our salvation.

Aaah but this is the beauty of Catholic Theology.

I mentioned to you before this Exultet that is sung during the Easter Vigil. St Thomas Aquinas wrote it and part of it goes “ O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer”

While God did allow Adam and Eve to disobey Him, it was only because He had already planned how He will go about our restoration to Grace!!

With Christ’s redemption, we are not merely restored to the state of Adam and Eve before the fall, we are restored to the level above the angels, because through the merits of Christ, we become (drum roll)……… Children of God! That is why this process of theosis is so integral to any talk of salvation.

When we get to heaven, we will not be able to defy God again because we have become incorporated into the Body of Christ, His very own son and the Son will never ever defy the Father because as Jesus said – “the Father and Him are one”.

Peter Kreeft and Francis Beckwith (the former president of Evangelical Thelogical Society) put it this way - ** Being saved is not just a matter of getting into heaven. More to the point, it is getting heaven into us.**

I think the reason Protestants miss this all important point is because they fail to grasp that grace has the capacity to change nature.

So how does God bring about this process of theosis (deification)? Through the Holy Spirit! But what is the Holy Spirit if not the love between the Father and the Son.

So now this should give you a better idea of what I mean when I wrote that God will not punish us for our sins but rather will LOVE us into goodness. The Holy Spirit (the love between the Father and the Son) is the one that will make us good and transform us into the image of Christ (finally deifcation)!

So really when you look at it, God gives in the end, what Adam and Eve disobeyed Him for – theosis, to become as gods. What they did not understand was that this was their reason for being, that this is what God ultimately created them for in the first place. That is why the desire was in their heart all along but unfortunately was perverted by a lie.

Deification is our heritage just as heaven is our true homeland. But it must be received with gratitude from God, not violently apportioned to oneself by disobedience.

What does this scripture mean. Isaiah. 47:7 I form the Light, and create darkness, I make Peace, and {CREATE EVIL} I the LORD do all these things.

You said the catholic church does not believe that God Creates Evil

God cannot create evil. Since evil is the absence of God, then to create evil would be for God to go against himself.

In Isaiah, what this means is that God permits evil to create a greater good.

I recommend that you get a copy of “Why Does God permit Evil? By Dom Brunno Webb. I have found it most enlightening and has given me a grasp of the over all economy of salvation.

We tend to look at salvation in narrow terms but this book looks at all the aspects of God’s plan for His creation and it is beautiful.

In the words of Christ to Julian of Norwich - All will be well, All manner of things shall be well.

   [

](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6866269)

 

[shaky]

We cannot say that we are born this way, hence it is not our fault. Remember, we inherited the sinful nature from Adam and Eve who did not have that sinful nature when they were created. As our representatives, we also are at fault for having a sinful nature. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23).

Hi Bengoshi

To Inherit: To recieve a characteristic or quality from your parents as a result of it being passed on genetically: How can it be our fault?

 

[benedictus2]

Hi Bengoshi

To Inherit: To recieve a characteristic or quality from your parents as a result of it being passed on genetically: How can it be our fault?

Hmmm, I wait for Bengoshi’s answer too.

 

[shaky]

Irresistible Grace is a phrase that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of sinners. It is represented by the “I” in the acronym TULIP that is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism or the Doctrines of Grace. The doctrine is also known as “Effectual Calling,” “Efficacious Grace,” “Efficacious Call of the Spirit,” and “Transformed by the Holy Spirit.” Each of these terms reveals some aspect of what the Bible teaches about the doctrine of irresistible grace. However what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the nature and purpose of the work of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of sinful, spiritually dead men. No matter which name you use to refer to the doctrine of irresistible grace a through study of the Bible will reveal that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible teaches on this important subject.

The reason this doctrine is called “irresistible” grace is because it always results in the intended outcome, the salvation of the person it is given to. It is important to realize that the act of being regenerated or “born again” cannot be separated from the act of believing the Gospel. Ephesians 2:1-10 makes this clear. There is a clear connection between the act of being made alive by God (Ephesians 2:1,5) and the result of being saved by grace. (Ephesians 2:5,8). This is because everything pertaining to salvation, including the faith to believe, is an act of God’s grace. The reason God’s grace is irresistible and efficacious (always bringing forth the desired result) is because God “has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into” His kingdom (Colossians 1:13). Or as Psalm 3:8 puts it, “Salvation belongs to the Lord.”

To understand the doctrine of “Irresistible grace,” it is important to recognize that this is a special grace given only to those God has chosen for salvation (His elect) and is different from what is known as “common grace” which God bestows on both believer and the unbeliever. While there are many aspects of common grace, including life and all that is necessary to sustain it, common grace is what is often referred to as the “outward call of God.” This is God’s revelation of Himself given to all men through the light of creation and their consciences. It also includes the general call of the Gospel that goes out anytime the Gospel message is preached. This call can be resisted and rejected by those that receive it. (Matthew 22:14; Romans 1:18-32). However, God also gives an “inward call” which always results in salvation. This is the call of God that Jesus spoke of in John 6:37-47. The certainty of this inward call is seen in John 6:37: “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” John 6:44 confirms this: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.”

A common misconception about the doctrine of irresistible grace is that it implies men are forced to accept Christ and men are dragged kicking and screaming into heaven. Of course neither of these are accurate descriptions of the doctrine of irresistible grace as revealed in the Bible. In fact the heart of irresistible grace is the transforming power of the Holy Spirit whereby He takes a man dead in his trespasses and sins and gives him spiritual life so that he can recognize the unsurpassing value of God’s offer of salvation. Then having been set free from the bondage of sin, that man willingly comes to Christ.

Another misconception concerning this doctrine is that it teaches the Holy Spirit cannot be resisted at all. Yet again that is not what the doctrine teaches because that is not what the Bible teaches. God’s grace can be resisted and the Holy Spirit’s influence can be resisted even by one of the elect. However what the doctrine does correctly recognize is that the Holy Spirit can overcome all such resistance and that He will draw the elect with an irresistible grace that makes them want to come to God and helps them to understand the Gospel so they can and will believe it.

The doctrine of irresistible grace simply recognizes that the Bible teaches God is sovereign and can overcome all resistance when He wills to. What God decrees or determines will come to pass always does. This truth is seen throughout Scripture. In Daniel 4:35 we see that “He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand!” Psalm 115:3 declares, “Our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.” God’s grace in salvation is irresistible because when God sets out to fulfill His sovereign purpose, no person or thing can successfully resist Him.

Hi bengoshi

Every body i seem to Know. Knows about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is what you Call common Grace. But most of them are not Responding to it because of Lack of faith in it. Also Atheist appear to have no faith at all.

Then you have the Ones responding to it with faith. But they are Responding in the wrong way. By being involved in christian cults teaching Heresy.

Then you have the ones who Respond to it in the Right way. who only want the real truth and the Right church. You call this effectual Grace or Irresistible Grace. You say this Grace can be Resisted. But no Person Can successfully Resist God.

You are a Lawyer:

The Ones That have Not been Given this effectual or Irresistble Grace.To Responed In The Right Way.
Why Would It Be Justified: That these People should be Condemned to Eternal Suffering

 

[shaky]

What does it mean to be “born again”? What is the nature of this new spiritual life?

Hi benedictus:

Before you are ‘‘BORN AGAIN’’ you Existed and Functioned in the Outer Man which is Your Body=Your Flesh and your Soul: You Just followed the dictates of Your Soul and Your flesh. Your Actual Spirit your Inner man was Dead. Because you Inherited this From Adam.

With Some People: When a Evil Spirit Enters into the Inner Man: That Person Becomes Possessed. That person Becomes driven by the dictates of the evil spirit as-well as the Soul and Flesh.

With other People Evil Spirits: Just Obsess and Oppress Them. By Latching onto their soul.
As you Go Through Life You Just Degenerate

When Adam Sinned His Spirit Died First. Which Later brought about the death of his Soul and Body.

When You Put True Faith in Jesus Christ. You are Given the Gift of The Holy Spirit. which Enters Your Inner Man. Your Spirit is Now Alive and you are possesed by the holy spirit
Your Soul and Body The outer Man. Start to follow the dictates of the holy Spirit in the Inner Man. As you Go through Life you Just Regenerate.
This happens When you become ‘‘BORN AGAIN’’

 

[benedictus2]

Hi benedictus:

Before you are ‘‘BORN AGAIN’’ you Existed and Functioned in the Outer Man which is Your Body=Your Flesh and your Soul: You Just followed the dictates of Your Soul and Your flesh. Your Actual Spirit your Inner man was Dead. Because you Inherited this From Adam.

With Some People: When a Evil Spirit Enters into the Inner Man: That Person Becomes Possessed. That person Becomes driven by the dictates of the evil spirit as-well as the Soul and Flesh.

With other People Evil Spirits: Just Obsess and Oppress Them. By Latching onto their soul.
As you Go Through Life You Just Degenerate

When Adam Sinned His Spirit Died First. Which Later brought about the death of his Soul and Body.

When You Put True Faith in Jesus Christ. You are Given the Gift of The Holy Spirit. which Enters Your Inner Man. Your Spirit is Now Alive and you are possesed by the holy spirit
Your Soul and Body The outer Man. Start to follow the dictates of the holy Spirit in the Inner Man. As you Go through Life you Just Regenerate.
This happens When you become ‘‘BORN AGAIN’’

I see a major problem wit this kind of theology but I will reply in depth later. The problem lie in it’s conception of the nature of created human beings, the fall, and how God effects the restoration. However most of it I think has been addressed in my previous reply to you.

In the meantime I have to do my friend’s financials.

Peace!

Cory

 

[shaky]

I am reminded of St Bernadette. St Bernadette was the little girl to whom Our Lady appeared to at Lourdes.

So many were cured at the springs of Lourdes and yet she would die of bone cancer. In all this time she held fast to her love of God and Our Lady.

Yes, in our infirmity, God shows His strength and makes us aware that we are ever in need of His grace that we may not boast.

When we bear with suffering gladly, God uses this to bring out even more good in this world. Our sufferings borne well can lead to conversion of souls in manners both mysterious and beautiful.

Hi benedictus

I think the Reason why am still Alive by the Grace and Mercy of God. Is Because God has not Finished with me Yet. There is Still more Work to be Done In Me. To Get me where he wants me to be.

{Psalm 118:18} The Lord has disciplined me severly, but he hath not Given me over to death.

{Hebrews 12:8} But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, Then are ye bastards and not Sons.

{Heb 12:11} {Proverbs 3:11 13:24 15:10 22:15} {Job 36:18} All these scriptures talk about
The discipline and chastisement of God.

 

[shaky]

To be the cause of something, one has to actively will it and put it into action. God does not actively will evil even though He does allow it .

Evil, as St Augustine rightly put it, is nothing more than an absence of good. Evil exists when we are separated from God, the Sum of All Goodness.

The question about putting the TKGE instead of just leaving the TL in the garden is one that has bogged my brother as well.

The TKGE is not of itself the problem, you see. The problem was that there was a Great Prohibition (do not eat this one) along with the Great Permission (you may eat freely of the all the trees). So what this really boils down too is that God has decreed that something must not be done and yet man chooses not to obey in humility. Man in effect refused to be humus (of the earth) and wanted to grasp at diety rather than accept diety as a gift from God.

As someone said (I can’t remember who) Sin is sin because God said so. Eating the fruit of TKGE would not be bad if God had said eat of the TKGE.

This part of Genesis is one of my favourites because it is so rich.

Chapter 3 opens with “Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the animals that the LORD God had made.” In other translations the word “subtle” is used in place of “cunning”. Either way, it conveys the idea of “stealth”.

What does the devils temptation consist of ? It is a temptation to self deification. It goes: “No, God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad."

Notice here that subtle lie in the words “gods”. Not God but gods, implying that there are other gods when Adam and Eve had only ever met the One True God.

So the temptation is really two fold. The devil proposes a lie. Adam and Eve have been friends with God and yet they readily believe this promise of the devil. God said they will die, the devil says “nope God is lying, you will live, more than that you will be like him.”

So it seems the devil must have tapped into something that is deep within them, the desire to be as gods. But the thing about it, is now they have someone else to blame (Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the devil) should they eat.

This speaks very much about us and how we tend to buck-pass when we’ve done wrong. The first thing we do when we know we have done wrong is how to make up the best excuse so we can get away free and not be blamed.

This also highlights how the devil will always dress his temptations as movements towards the good. Adam and Eve thought how can knowing good and evil be bad. How can becoming like god be bad? We see this in how we rationalize our evil actions. The decision to commit adultery is rationalized as a “love” for the mistress. How can after all “love” be bad? Women kill their very own babies in their womb and rationalize it as “freedom of choice” and because “I would not be able to support them” or “my other children need me”.

The second take is that to know good and evil in this sense is to actually have experiential knowledge of these two. Before the fall, there was no experiential knowledge of evil (they were not fazed by their nakedness), but come the fall and they finally had an encounter with evil, for they have disobeyed and thus turned away from the Sum of All Goodness.

The Crucifixion is only Evil seen from our eyes, for we see suffering as an evil in itself. But the Crucifixion is actually the greatest Good for in it we see Man finally obeying God to the point of death. The greatest good is to submit our wills to the will of God for it was wilfullness that got us in this quagmire in the first place.

This is why I cannot believe how some can propose pre-destination to damnation. Why would a God who would go to such lengths as to become human and die on the cross that we might be saved, pre-destine anyone to hell? It just defies reason.

Hi benedictus.

I agree with you: I find it hard myself To believe Predestined to eternal punishment damnation. May be if it was Annihilation Ok. Some churches teach this.
Jim brown who teaches predestination comes up with this Scripture to support what he Believes

{2 Peter 2:12} But these, Like Unreasoning animals… {’‘BORN’’} as creatures of Instinct to be captured and killed, Reviling where they have no knowledge, Will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed.

 

[shaky]

I don’t think this is our bone of contention at all.

I think we all agree that we have to be chosen first. The question is whether God chooses only some and not others.

Basically what is being proposed is that God chooses some and ensures that they will choose Him by giving them the grace to choose Him. God does not choose some, thereby denying them the grace to choose Him to ensure that they are damned.

Hi benedictus.

Unless everybody already has been Given by God a measure of faith and Grace in them already to start with in the first place. And the are able with an element of free will to use this and Choose Salvation. And in doing so they are chosen and their faith and grace Increases to insure there salvation and these are the Ones that are Chosen.
And the Ones that don’t use this measure of faith and grace lose this faith and grace altogether and become hardened.

Doubting is the prelude to truth. You always have to use both doubt and belief to come to the truth.
Even a athiest should have an element of doubt in what he or she believes. That element of doubt would be faith to believe in. ‘‘Jesus Chirst’’

I have a very strong faith in Jesus christ. But there is also a element of doubt.

 

[Bengoshi]

Hmm, it seems that Shaky is better at looking at this logically.

Of course we can say we are born this way if we inherited it from our parents.

Say, let’s suppose that psychopathy is completely hereditary such that the child of a psychopath is guaranteed to become a psychopath. Can the child not say, well, I am a psychopath because I was born this way?

That is exactly what you have just explained above.

If we are are born this way since as you said we inherited the sinfulness from our first parents, then how can it be our fault.? **You say you are a lawyer so you should know that fault/guilt is only imputable where something is freely willed. **That is why even in the human courts of law there is such a thing as reduced accountability due to external circumstances.

The only time it ceases to be our fault is if though born this way, our will remains free and are capable of choosing what is good and right.

And once again you use the Bible erroneously. Have babies sinned?

Read this chapter at the-highway.com/fall_Sproul.html so that you can understand what I mean. It’s entitled “Adam’s Fall and Mine” from CHOSEN BY GOD by R.C. Sproul.

Take special notice of the Federal or Representative View of the Fall.

 

[Bengoshi]

What does it mean to be “born again”? What is the nature of this new spiritual life?

What does it mean to be a born again Christian? The classic passage from the Bible that answers this question is John 3:1-21. The Lord Jesus Christ is talking to Nicodemus, a prominent Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin (a ruler of the Jews). Nicodemus had come to Jesus at night. Nicodemus had questions to ask Jesus.

As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “’I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again’” (John 3:3-7).

The phrase “born again” literally means “born from above.” Nicodemus had a real need. He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12,13 indicates that “born again” also carries the idea “to become children of God” through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.

The question logically comes, “Why does a person need to be born again?” The Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:1 says, “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins…” (NKJV). To the Romans in Romans 3:23, the Apostle wrote, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” So, a person needs to be born again in order to have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.

How does that come to be? Ephesians 2:8-9 states, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” When one is “saved,” he/she has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of new birth. Trusting in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is what it means to be “born again” spiritually. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, will you consider the prompting of the Holy Spirit as He speaks to your heart? You need to be born again. Will you pray the prayer of repentance and become a new creation in Christ today? “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God” (John 1:12-13).

If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and be born again, here is a sample prayer. Remember, saying this prayer or any other prayer will not save you. It is only trusting in Christ that can save you from sin. This prayer is simply a way to express to God your faith in Him and thank Him for providing for your salvation. “God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment. But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven. I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness—the gift of eternal life! Amen!”

 

[Bengoshi]

Hi Bengoshi

To Inherit: To recieve a characteristic or quality from your parents as a result of it being passed on genetically: How can it be our fault?

Please read the Chapter “Adam’s Fall and Mine” from the book CHOSEN BY GOD by R.C. Sproul at the-highway.com/fall_Sproul.html

 

[Bengoshi]

Hi bengoshi

Every body i seem to Know. Knows about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is what you Call common Grace. But most of them are not Responding to it because of Lack of faith in it. Also Atheist appear to have no faith at all.

Then you have the Ones responding to it with faith. But they are Responding in the wrong way. By being involved in christian cults teaching Heresy.

Then you have the ones who Respond to it in the Right way. who only want the real truth and the Right church. You call this effectual Grace or Irresistible Grace. You say this Grace can be Resisted. But no Person Can successfully Resist God.

You are a Lawyer:

The Ones That have Not been Given this effectual or Irresistble Grace.To Responed In The Right Way.
Why Would It Be Justified: That these People should be Condemned to Eternal Suffering

The article was quoted from GQ.

There seems to be a confusion about common grace. Common grace is not the Gospel. Common grace is God sustaining everything in spite of the evil of man.

The ones who respond in faith to the cults did not respond at all to God. They responded and accepted the lies of Satan just like Adam and Eve. Does that mean that Adam and Eve should not have been punished?

 

[paul_c]

By the way, how do you explain away Eph. 2:8-9 (For it is by grace we are saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works , so that no one can boast.)?

There is no reason to explain it away. you can’t work your way into heaven. There’s no debate about that. You need to cooperate with God’s grace and do the works he set out for you. Why did you stop at verse 9. read the whole sentence:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10 For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

It clearly says that our works do not save us, it is by grace. In another verse, it says that “who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began” (2 Tim. 1:9).

Sure, he predestined some to heaven, there is no debate about that. But your argument isn’t that. Your argument is that he predestined some to hell. You have yet to prove that point.

Our good works is the result of our salvation by grace. That grace is claimed by faith and good works are the evidence of our faith in Christ. Salvation is monergistic, meaning, an act of God alone. His common grace enables men, even unbelievers to do good works (albeit the intention or motive may still be selfish and sinful), but it is only with His effectual saving grace that our good works become pure and godly.

Sure, but where does it say anywhere that he denies effectual saving grace from anyone? And where does it say that we don’t have to cooperate with God’s grace to be saved? Does it not say in Romans 2 :

5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,
6 who will repay everyone according to his works:
7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
9 Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek.
10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek.

 

[paul_c]

Hi paul

You say God lives out of time and space and God knows who will Choose.

According to Augustine on this: {Even if God knows before hand who will Choose}. This still leaves Sovereignty to man over his salvation.

If it is up to Man to Choose first then we will be Chosen: Sovereignty Goes to man

We have to be Chosen first. Then we have the ability to Choose salvation.
This way the Sovereignty goes to God.

God needs to choose us and then we need to choose to cooperate…But Catholic theology is clear that God gives everyone the opportunity to be saved. Augustine is consistent with that view.