Take up your cross

[Benadam]

If you are looking for a cross to carry.

What is that unnecessary attraction in your life? The one that will bother you most if/when you aren’t able to have it? Something that tempts/keeps you from giving yourself to others when you ought to perhaps.

 

[Hodos]

Excuse me, but such reasoning is error. It was not taught by Christ. Nowhere does Christ or the scriptures teach that we must pore over the written word attempting to read the mind of the inspire writer. Nowhere.

Hmm, it is unbiblical to freelance the word of God huh? Kinda like Eve when replying to the serpent?

Endless diverging opinions regarding printed words are the reason why the Body of Christ is so tragically fragmented and increasingly seen as irrelevant.

The only reason you have a diverging opinion is because you haven’t made the effort to look up the passages to see what Christ was talking about when he uttered the teaching. That is why you aren’t spouting an exegetical interpretation, but an opinion. You will find that the vast majority of the time when you have diverging opinions it is because the opinions are not coming from the word of God but from some other authority.

 

[po18guy]

Freelance? where did Christ teach that? That leads to inventing your own religion - which is occurring even as we speak.

Well did Peter write that the scriptures are twisted by the ignorant and unstable. To avoid that, we have the teaching of the Apostles to place scripture in context.

 

[po18guy]

I refer you to the forum rules.

 

[Hope1960]

A “cross” is any kind of hardship / suffering that you have in your life.

Whether it be marriage issues, financial issues, fertility issues, same sex attraction, loneliness, disease, having to care for a disabled child or parent, etc.

God Bless

I have OCD. That would be my cross, right?

 

[Hodos]

You would do well sir to review them for yourself. You were the one who diverged from the forum topic. This is not the first time that I have witnessed you picking fights with other users, and failing to demonstrate your ability to deal with “ego” or “intellect” in a charitable manner. Kindly return your attention to the subject matter of the forum thread or open a new thread.

 

[Hodos]

…because you are arguing from the ego?

What is your authority for saying any of this?

I was referring to your response on two other threads to other users. Both of which you resorted to non sequiturs rather than discussing the point of the forum thread, rather than address the intellectual side of things, and then engaged in personal attacks to apparently deal with the ego side of things.

As to the cross we are to bear, I stick hard and fast to the teaching of the Apostles (Luke 7:16) and the authority that Christ gave to His Church. (Matthew 16:18, 18:17-18, John 20:20-23, 1 Timothy 3:15) The Church against which the gates of hell shall not prevail.

You still have not addressed the fact that your answer was completely unrelated to the text being discussed - again not addressing the intellectual matter being discussed.

If you believe Jesus.

And you?

My belief in Jesus has been demonstrated already by my willingness to not misrepresent his word. Apparently you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. Kindly save us the effort of having to answer the fool according to his folly, and allow us to discuss the passage in peace.

 

[po18guy]

Or you could actually go to the text …instead of render personal opinion not derived from the actual passage.

Not so fast! Where does “the text” claim that “the text” is: 1) easily and completely understood (2 Peter 3:16) and: 2) is the entire content of the apostolic teaching?

Doesn’t.

Where did Jesus teach to hand out texts?

He did not.

Which text did Jesus write?

Not a single jot or tittle.

What did Jesus command for the handing on of the faith?

“He who hears you hears Me.” “The Holy Spirit will remind you of all that I have taught you.” “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you”

Not a peep about any “text” or “perspicacity” or “scripture interprets scripture” any of the other European/American inventions.

Why? Man’s ego twists the texts.

Catholics have the 2,000 year old Church, divinely instituted and empowered, and against which the gates of hell shall not prevail. The authority of that Church is why you even have a bible. On the other hand, bible believers (whatever that is) have whatever belief their ego leads them to hold.

No thanks.

 

[Hope1960]

I have OCD. That would be my cross, right?

Again, anybody?

 

[po18guy]

Hope1960:

I have OCD. That would be my cross, right?

Again, anybody?

A major part of it, yes. Even though OCD is treatable, it may be your lifetime cross. If you embrace if as such, your joy in Christ can only increase - despite the difficulties it presents.

 

[Hodos]

Not so fast! Where does “the text” claim that “the text” is 1) easily and completely understood (I remind of 2 Peter 3:16) and 2) is the entire content of the apostolic teaching?

Let me get this straight. Your response when challenged on whether you are misinterpreting a statement made by Christ is to say the scripture documenting his statement is 1) not clear or understandable, 2) we shouldn’t be reading scripture to begin with, 3) the apostles did not accurately reflect Jesus teachings in the gospel accounts, 4) and man twists the texts anyway; THEREFORE we cast them aside for another authority. You sir may have the lowest view of sacred scripture that I may have ever seen.

 

[Hope1960]

A major part of it, yes. Even though OCD is treatable, it may be your lifetime cross. If you embrace if as such, your joy in Christ can only increase - despite the difficulties it presents.

It’s something I’ve prayed about to go away since I was a kid or at least a teenager, and I’ve still got it.

How can my joy in Christ increase by embracing the OCD as my cross to bear?

 

[po18guy]

Nope. I just realize the limitations of scripture - as did Jesus, Peter, John and Paul…

…because He did not found His Church on scripture.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

A “cross” is any kind of hardship / suffering that you have in your life.

Whether it be marriage issues, financial issues, fertility issues, same sex attraction, loneliness, disease, having to care for a disabled child or parent, etc.

God Bless

I have OCD. That would be my cross, right?

Yes, it would be a cross for you.

NOTE: some people may have more than one cross, so it may or may not be your only one.

 

[Hodos]

Nope. I just realize the limitations of scripture - as did Jesus, Peter, John and Paul…

No. The question was a scriptural one, asking what a specific passage in the Bible means. Your answer thus far has been to avoid the scriptural answer to the question in order to try to initiate arguments unrelated to the question. By the way, Jesus consistently referred to scripture when answering questions about scripture, as did Peter, John, and Paul. And Peter, John, and Paul gave us a substantial portions of the scripture for the very purpose of communicating the gospel and answering the types of questions that are being asked here. Clearly, they had a higher view of scripture than you do.

 

[po18guy]

OK, my ever-disagreeing brother. But, if you can open your heart just a bit, realize that your criticism adds blessing to me. For that, I thank you.

Here is an authoritative comment on the taking up of one’s cross, from Matthew. This is not bible alone personal opinion.

Ver. 24. If any man will come. S. Chry. Euthymius, and Theophylactus, shew that free will is confirmed by these words. Do not expect, O Peter, that since
you have confessed me to be the Son of God, you are immediately to be
crowned, as if this were sufficient for salvation, and that the rest
of your days may be spent in idleness and pleasure. For, although by
my power, as Son of God, I could free you from every danger and
trouble, yet this I will not do for your sake, that you may yourself contribute to your glory, and become the more illustrious. S. Chry. hom. lvi.

Ver. 25. Whosoever
will save his life. Lit. his soul. In the style of the
Scriptures, the word soul is sometimes put for the life of the
body, sometimes for the whole man. Wi. — Whosoever acts
against duty and conscience to save the life of his body, shall lose
eternal life; and whoever makes the sacrifice of his life, or the
comforts and conveniences of life for conscience sake, shall be
rewarded with life eternal.

Now, I fully expect you, with your peculiar theology, to dispute this. That is an exercise of your free will. But, it is a good and prudent exercise - to depart from the Church which Christ founded for YOUR salvation? To ignore the pillar and foundation of truth? To ignore the Christ-mandated arbiter of all disputes? To step aside from the Church which has the power of binding and loosing? That’s all in your bible, my friend.

As to the scriptures, we greatly esteem them. They are a crucial part of the deposit of faith. I have many translations on my bookshelf and honor them above all other writings. But know this first: they are “scriptures” solely becuase the early Catholic Church council and Pope declared them to be. This is indisputable. You can proffer the strange argument that God simply chose Pope and council (a la Acts 15) as His means of handing bibles out, but God could have dropped KJVs or NIVs like manna from heaven; He did not!

He sent apostles, they appointed successors and you will not hear them - a misuse of your free will as I see it.

 

[po18guy]

And further, from Matthew 10:

Ver. 38. He that,
&c. There are two kinds of crosses which our Saviour here
commands us to take up: one corporal, and the other spiritual. By
the former, he commands us to restrain the unruly appetites of the
touch, taste, sight, &c. By the other, which is far more worthy
our notice, he teaches us to govern the affections of the mind, and
restrain all its irregular motions, by humility, tranquillity,
modesty, peace, &c. Precious indeed in the sight of God, and
glorious is that cross, which governs and brings under proper rule
the lawless passions of the mind. S. Austin.

Ver. 39. He that
findeth, &c. Behold the great losses that befall such as
love their souls above measure; and on the contrary, the advantages
that follow from hating them as they ought. S. Chrys. hom. xxxvi. —
That is, he that findeth in this life pleasures and comforts, and
places his affections upon them, will certainly soon lose them. For
Isaias says, (C. xl, v. 6,) All flesh is grass, and all the glory
thereof as the flower of the field. The grass is withered, and the
flower is fallen. So man’s glory seems to flourish and appears
great, but falls away and dies before it has come to its full bloom;
for what duration is there in the flesh? and what stability in the
pleasures of this world? To-day you may behold a young man, strong,
beautiful, healthy, admired, and flourishing in virtue; and to-morrow
you will find him quite changed, oppressed with either sin, labour,
want, or sickness. S. Ambrose. — But if he continues
moderately happy as to temporal concerns till death, and places his
affections on them, he hath found life here, but shall lose it in the
next world. But he that shall, for the sake of Christ, deprive
himself of the pleasures of this life, shall receive the reward of a
hundred fold in the next. A.

Argue against this if you will - that is your free choice. Your private take on this cannot - cannot - be lead by the Holy Spirit, as God’s Spirit leads always and everywhere to humble submission and unity.

 

[Hodos]

Um, it was you who started the disagreement which created the disunity. All I did was provide an explanation of the texts where Christ said to deny oneself and carry one’s cross. Clearly you are in submission to something, but it isn’t the Spirit which inspired the scriptures.

 

[po18guy]

You are destroying your own credibility

Please address the thread topic.

 

[Hodos]

Thanks. I apologize for the back and forth. My initial intention was just to take a look at the passages that were being discussed and offer my own insight. Some people will argue just to argue.