Talking to teens about sex

[RPRPsych]

Ask to your catholic priest.

Firstly, according to the experience, there are* many engaged catholic persons who kisses the face and all corollaries, holds hands, dances together, are on the beach, her in bikini and him a swimsuit, kisses all parts that i have listed without falling into a sin.*

Secondly, those acts are not per wrong, per se because they can be seen and are seen like the natural sign of affection between engaged persons;

Thirdly, no catholic papal document says that they are sinful acts, per se and by nature out of the marriage: the natural signs of affection between male and female who are engaged are not deeply wrong.

…

ETC.

Good idea, but all the priests I know live in India, where such behaviour isn’t too commonplace, and where most couples hold hands for the first time as part of the marriage rite.

But I get what you’re saying in principle. It is an interesting question.

 

[Kamaduck]

PDA??? French kiss, kiss on the lips, hold the hands, hold the shoulders, hold waist, hold thigh??? What is it, i am French???

It stands for Public Display of Affection.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Ask to your catholic priest.

Firstly, according to the experience, there are* many engaged catholic persons who kisses the face and all corollaries, holds hands, dances together, are on the beach, her in bikini and him *in ** swimsuit, kisses all parts that i have listed without falling into a sin.

Secondly, those acts are not per wrong, per se because they can be seen and are seen like the natural sign of affection between engaged persons;

Thirdly, no catholic papal document says that they are sinful acts, per se and by nature out of the marriage: the natural signs of affection between male and female who are engaged are not deeply wrong.

Sorry, i have questions for understanding:

Is it morally wrong, or indecent, or immodest, or imprudent for the wife and the husband of practicing the kiss on the lips ot the french kiss in front of:???

Their own children?
Their own parents?
Their friends?
The catholc priest during dinner?

… ETC

Where the french kiss is morally wrong, immodest, imprudent, immodest???

In the street?
On the beach?
On public?
*
Do you refuse of practicing the french kiss or the kiss on the lips in certain situations or contexts? Which are those situations? *

Catholicism is not a list of prohibitions and of bans, per se. It is not the Old testament and the Koran.

I am catholic, not a christian of the other christian confessions.

I’m sorry, I frankly don’t understand many of your posts. It’s probably a language barrier thing.

To answer (I think) your questions:

On the first four questions, is it morally wrong? Mmmm, probably not. Would it make the viewers (and, for that matter, probably the spouses in question) rather uncomfortable? Probably. It might not be morally wrong, but it’s not courteous to others. Such acts are private in nature. That sort of thing at least verges on foreplay for most couples, and I suspect actually is in most situations.

Such actions in public but not in front of people you may know (ie, on a random beach) *might *become sinful if others saw them for the same reason that marital sex is not at all sinful in private but would be on the beach if they could reasonably assume that someone might see them: it can cause temptations to sinful thoughts in the viewers.

ETA: No papal document can possible list every single possible sin in every single possible context. This is why we have prudential judgment, and are expected to use it. My then-fiancé and I could be in an apartment together and, using the common sense I described, it wouldn’t be a near occasion of sin. For some other couples, it might have been a very bad idea, and they would be expected to use their judgment to avoid such a situation.

 

[fpt]

Good idea, but all the priests I know live in India, where such behaviour isn’t too commonplace, and where most couples hold hands for the first time as part of the marriage rite.

But I get what you’re saying in principle. It is an interesting question.

In India, if you ask to your catholic Indian priests, he should give you an answer in two times:

The universal rule from the catholicity, and then, the practical rule in function of your local situation (social habits, civil law, penal law, administrative law).

A catholic priest has to think in universality, the sens of word catholicism.

A catholic priest must purify the local thought and habit

 

[SusanneT]

The Church teaches that deliberate arousal of the sexual urge outside of marriage is sinful. She doesn’t get into specifics, but common sense should prevail.

My husband and I were each other’s first serious girlfriend/boyfriend. We didn’t kiss until we’d been dating for about three months and were getting serious. Until we got married, we kept physical affection to holding hands, hugging, and a quick kiss. Basically, if we would have blushed or been embarrassed to see our parish priests, our mothers, and our grandmothers see an action, we didn’t do it.

Teens should be taught not on the philosophy of “how far can we go,” but instead more like “what would I regret on my wedding day if I didn’t marry this person?” If my then-boyfriend and I had broken up after our first kiss (we’d never even gotten that far with someone else), I would have been very sad indeed, but I would not feel any shame about anything I’d done. I’d have known that I had saved that whole mutual-sexual-arousal until my wedding night, where neither of us had any reason to be ashamed.

Someone above mentioned that French kissing isn’t a sin. In and of itself, possibly not. Possibly. But it’s different from regular kissing, in that a quick peck on the lips, while affectionate, is not especially arousing, while what, er, goes on during French kissing is, especially to men, who tend to get aroused faster than women do. At a bare minimum, it’s a really bad idea.

We lived pretty far from our families, and mine, in any case, wasn’t in a position to provide any help with this. We made our own rules. While it would have been impossible not to spend time alone in one another’s apartments (we lived four hours away from each other while dating and engaged) we kept a deliberate physical distance while in an apartment alone. We didn’t sit next to each other on the couch–much less cuddle!–while watch TV. Affection was limited to a hello/goodbye hug and kiss at the open door. We didn’t spend the night at each other’s apartments, even though those hotel bills were both pricey and annoying. We didn’t spend time just sitting in the car if we weren’t driving somewhere. Etc.

Long before we got involved, we also made the conscious decision not to date anyone until we were ready (or would be ready shortly, ie, nearly at the end of college) to get married. We weren’t interested in recreational dating; we wanted to find a spouse, which is the goal of dating for Catholics. Teens should be taught that this is the goal of dating, and a lot of other stuff will fall into place from there.

That having been said, if a couple can’t give each other a quick hug and kiss (with common sense in place–ie, at the afore-mentioned open door) without descending immediately into passion, then they probably shouldn’t be dating in the first place. Anyone with that little self-control is not mature enough to get married. Affection outside of sex is important, and learning how to give it is equally so. What happens when you reach a time in your marriage when you must, for good reason, abstain for a time? Never hugging, kissing, or touching in non-sexual ways will make such a time far more brutal on a marriage than necessary. This is, incidentally, why I’m opposed to some of the stuff I see in courtship-over-dating suggestions: if a couple can’t go out alone for dinner or a cup of coffee without sleeping together, then they are not mature enough to get married.

Really well put !

My parents just tried to scare me off any involvement with boys, I don’t think it the right way to go about it but it did kind of work, in that by the time I had overcome the barriers they had constructed I was old enough to realise that I wanted to wait for marriage and confident enough to say no.

 

[Kamaduck]

My parents just tried to scare me off any involvement with boys, I don’t think it the right way to go about it but it did kind of work, in that by the time I had overcome the barriers they had constructed I was old enough to realise that I wanted to wait for marriage and confident enough to say no.

I think this kind of advice would have just turned me into a housebound hermit if my mom had not straightened me out. I still have not really dated anyone, but it’s good to know that she trusts me enough not to forbid it.

Actually, she basically encouraged me to date people, on the basis that it might keep me from becoming a housebound hermit.

 

[fpt]

fpt;10863086:

I’m sorry, I frankly don’t understand many of your posts. It’s probably a language barrier thing.

May be, my english is not too formal, it is very french in the form and in the construction of phrases and of sentences. My sentences are very long with full of , ; - ? ! …etc.

To answer (I think) your questions:

On the first four questions, is it morally wrong? Mmmm, probably not. * We are on the same line.*

Would it make the viewers (and, for that matter, probably the spouses in question) rather uncomfortable? Probably. WHY?? THE CULTURALISM, THE CLANISM, THE COMMUNAUTARISM, THE PURITANISM, THE VICTORIANISM???

It might not be morally wrong, (I am okay with you??) but it’s not courteous to others. *WHY??? WHICH MENTALITIES?? * Such acts are private in nature. That sort of thing at least verges on foreplay for most couples, and I suspect actually is in most situations.

Such actions in public but not in front of people you may know (ie, on a random beach) *might become sinful if others saw them for the same reason that marital sex is not at all sinful in private but would be on the beach if they could reasonably assume that someone might see them: it can cause temptations to sinful thoughts in the viewers.
*
In France, the moral views are different and the habits are different. Do you refuse to kiss your wife on the beach during a walk in front of the sea during the day?

ETA: No papal document can possible list every single possible sin in every single possible context. This is why we have prudential judgment, and are expected to use it. My then-fiancé and I could be in an apartment together and, using the common sense I described, it wouldn’t be a near occasion of sin. For some other couples, it might have been a very bad idea, and they would be expected to use their judgment to avoid such a situation. I am okay with you, we are on the same line.

 

[Kelfa28]

Well, I’ve been married for almost 15 years and I still wouldn’t perform any PDA in front of my dad or father-in-law… Blech!

Haha! I agree. I don’t think my parents or my FIL have seen hubby and I kiss with only a few exceptions. My parents saw my husband and I kiss goodbye when we were still boyfriend and girlfriend since I had just graduated from basic and was going to be leaving again for tech school for another 3 months. FIL and my parents saw us kiss on our wedding day. Otherwise…ICK! No way would I be cool with my dad seeing my husband and I go further than a quick kiss if necessary.

There is a cute game my 14 month old daughter likes to play. It involves one of us holding her and her pushing us together to see us kiss. Just a simple plant on the lips. She loves it. I figured it’s a good way of teaching her early that mommy’s and daddy’s kiss each other because we are married and love each other and that is a good thing.

I hope to do a better job then what my parents did when it came to teaching me about sex and what is okay and what isn’t.
Basically my mom planted a book in my room that explained sex. That was it. I think she was hoping I would ask questions but I was mortified instead. It totally backfired and no one brought it up after that.
So, yeah…I learned everything about sex from girlfriends and other books I came across. I learned the mechanics and nothing else.

So my view of sex was totally wrong and messed up long before I converted to Catholicism. By then it was too late to go back.

Maybe it’s why I think that waiting to kiss until the wedding day is really sweet and touching. I don’t think it’s weird at all.

 

[thewanderer]

Ok, both me and my fiance are virgins, and we have definitely kissed, and not just a peck on the lips either. So, no, it is not strictly necessary to refrain from kissing until you are married, or even to restrict it to a simple peck. What is super important though is that both people in the relationship see the good of purity and chastity and value it highly. That makes a huge difference. To a large extent they are going to have to work out for themselves where their particular line is. For some people if they engage in more than a quick peck it can be problematic for them whereas for others this isn’t the case. I agree with those who have said that rather than focusing on what the limit of what you can and cannot do is you should tell her to focus on discerning what is a good and pleasing way of behaving.

One good rule of thumb I know of is to teach her to constantly stop and check to make sure that whatever they do is done not for the sake of being sexually stimulating, but for the sake of showing affection to the other. If they are hugging and holding hands for the sake of being aroused then thats wrong, even if they don’t ever kiss. But if they do so just to show affection to each other, then, even if they do end up being a little aroused/stimulated its ok, so long as they do not focus on that. So if they can cuddle together on a couch and keep it so that their aim and intention is focused on showing affection to each other as a person rather than on their sexual attraction to the other then it is a good thing for them to do. However, if they find that when they cuddle on a couch they have a difficult time avoiding focusing on their sexual attraction to each other then that becomes a near occasion of sin and its something they need to avoid.

 

[fpt]

Ok, both me and my fiance are virgins, and we have definitely kissed, and not just a peck on the lips either. So, no, it is not strictly necessary to refrain from kissing until you are married, or even to restrict it to a simple peck. What is super important though is that both people in the relationship see the good of purity and chastity and value it highly. That makes a huge difference. To a large extent they are going to have to work out for themselves where their particular line is. For some people if they engage in more than a quick peck it can be problematic for them whereas for others this isn’t the case. I agree with those who have said that rather than focusing on what the limit of what you can and cannot do is you should tell her to focus on discerning what is a good and pleasing way of behaving.

One good rule of thumb I know of is to teach her to constantly stop and check to make sure that whatever they do is done not for the sake of being sexually stimulating, but for the sake of showing affection to the other. If they are hugging and holding hands for the sake of being aroused then thats wrong, even if they don’t ever kiss. But if they do so just to show affection to each other, then, even if they do end up being a littlearoused/stimulated its ok, so long as they do not focus on that. So if they can cuddle together on a couch and keep it so that their aim and intention is focused on showing affection to each other as a person rather than on their sexual attraction to the other then it is a good thing for them to do. However, if they find that when they cuddle on a couch they have a difficult time avoiding focusing on their sexual attraction to each other then that becomes a near occasion of sin and its something they need to avoid.

Good summary. I like your message.

 

[thewanderer]

When the teens at Church asked me that question of “well, how far can we go?”
my answer was: "Imagine your father is sitting on one end of the couch next to you and his father is on the other end and the two of you are in the middle. Exactly how far would you go in front of your parents?

The answers were “not far” and “probably wouldn’t do anything”

So I took the opportunity to remind them that God, their Heavenly Father IS there next to them every time there are with their boyfriend.

I heard that made an impression

To be honest I think this is a really really bad approach. I for one wouldn’t even give my fiance a peck on the lips in front of his parents, yet there is nothing wrong with this, especially between an engaged couple. While this may get some people to not go too far and have sex, at least for a little while, it will give them the wrong reason for doing so, which is hugely problematic. It can easily convince them that signs of affection are wrong, which is so so false, signs of affection are really important in relationships. The other problem it can lead to is people seeing the flaw in it and then assuming that the reasoning for waiting until marriage is flawed, and decide there is no point in waiting. Kids are smart, if you don’t give them good reasons which make sense to them in light of their perception of reality they are going to end up rejecting the system of values you are trying to teach them.

 

[Porter_Disciple]

Don’t we all do that to some extent or another?? “How far CAN I go until X activity that I enjoy becomes sin?”

It’s the wrong approach and the wrong question.

We should be asking, “Does doing X get me closer to Jesus, closer to Heaven, and if not, why am I doing it?”

You might say, “Kissing on the lips is not sinful nor extreme,” but I can ask, “What purpose does it serve?” Does making out with a girlfriend or boyfriend have a purpose other than satisfying lust? Is there more danger of sin, or less, if a couple starts kissing while dating? Kissing on the lips is a physically intimate act. Are teenagers ready to go forward with the commitments that surround physically intimate acts? No, they are not. They will not be ready for such commitments until they are much older and more settled, with a means to create and provide for a family.

Kissing on the lips can lead to physical arousal, which then becomes its own drive to complete other acts of intimacy. Yes, it is the definition of a “slippery slope,” because teens are so rarely fully aware of the power of their own body’s desires and needs.

I would get a copy of Theology of the Body for Teens and have many talks about this, long before the child is under the influence of hormones. But it’s never too late to start. You should talk to your children about this. The lack of (name removed by moderator)ut from parents means that teens have nothing with which to counter the arguments of their developing bodies.

While I respect the user, here, and the ideas discussed, I disagree on this engaging the question of sexuality (especially for teens) enough.

There are two points in this post on which I would like to expand.

Firstly, “Does doing X get me closer to Jesus?” I think the answer to this question is something that not all people can adequately answer. I say this because though they may pray regularly and seek an answer, it may not be given to them in an “ah-hah!” way. Sometimes we can only make choices by means of our God-given, faith-informed reason and graceful intuition. There are times, I think, where young men and women may not have the resources within themselves to answer this question on their own. Hence, they turn to others for guidance.

Secondly, as far as teenagers being able to go ahead with such intimate actions and sincere commitments: what of teenaged martyrs ? or of successful regents (Baldwin IV?) If they are unable, it isn’t a matter that they are incapable, but rather ill-equipped.

To touch on some other things: Any touching does elicit a sense of intimacy. Even with friends! “Are we the touch your shoulder while we laugh” friends? Or “chuckle at a distance?” The “Do we hug”? Question, and all of these even in completely passionate/sexual ways.

Now, being that sexuality is, in fact, ingrained within our nature, it isn’t something we turn on and off. But, when we talk about “sexuality” we specifically are talking about not just “being a sexual being” while we live, but “engaging life through the eyes of the act of sex (not the “eyes of sex” which can be construed for meaning of biological gendering).”

The virtues of prudence and chastity do not only speak to sexuality in this way, though. It is clear that chastity primarily concerns itself with martial fidelity, continence, celibacy, and other sexual ethics, but it does not end there. Chastity is a virtue of freedom. Sexuality is tied into an economy of giving and taking of a possessive (healthy or unhealthy) love. When we talk about being chaste, we are talking about being “free”.

So when we talk about chastity, we have to talk about Chastity as we relate to other human beings (and this is with or without God, chastity matters in human virtue, for atheists and pagans alike with Christians). Chastity flows from Christian virtue and it also does in humanity, through natural law.

When speaking about it to Christians, we can specifically address the graces of Confirmation, which is a sacrament of battle and spiritual warfare. Here, the grace of the Holy Spirit forcefully grows in the soul and allows the Christian to… “build a castle (a structure and implement of offence against evil, and a bastion against the tides of poison and darkness)” within the soul by Divine Grace.

Here’s my opinion on my previous paragraphs:
Chastity means, reserve yourself, for the sake of yourself. The Gospel says “love your neighbour as yourself,” which means little if you do not love yourself. The original commandment “go forth, be fruitful and multiple” does not just mean “fill the whole earth with people.” It first and foremost talks about be fruitful in production from within: acts of charity, art, sport, philosophy, music, etc. This ALSO include children, but it is no the only fruit. Multiplying is, again, not only in multiplying the number of people. It is about multiplying the virtues in your own person. Moral, intellectual, and physical virtues. And not any one of them for the sake of the other. Are they physically fit, mentally awake, morally straight? Has their virtue grown? If they have Hope, does it actively show itself in a habit of magnanimity or is there a creeping growth of acedia (spiritual sloth, “the scourge which lays waste at noon”)?

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

The Church teaches that deliberate arousal of the sexual urge outside of marriage is sinful. She doesn’t get into specifics, but common sense should prevail.

My husband and I were each other’s first serious girlfriend/boyfriend. We didn’t kiss until we’d been dating for about three months and were getting serious. Until we got married, we kept physical affection to holding hands, hugging, and a quick kiss. Basically, if we would have blushed or been embarrassed to see our parish priests, our mothers, and our grandmothers see an action, we didn’t do it.

Teens should be taught not on the philosophy of “how far can we go,” but instead more like “what would I regret on my wedding day if I didn’t marry this person?” If my then-boyfriend and I had broken up after our first kiss (we’d never even gotten that far with someone else), I would have been very sad indeed, but I would not feel any shame about anything I’d done. I’d have known that I had saved that whole mutual-sexual-arousal until my wedding night, where neither of us had any reason to be ashamed.

Someone above mentioned that French kissing isn’t a sin. In and of itself, possibly not. Possibly. But it’s different from regular kissing, in that a quick peck on the lips, while affectionate, is not especially arousing, while what, er, goes on during French kissing is, especially to men, who tend to get aroused faster than women do. At a bare minimum, it’s a really bad idea.

We lived pretty far from our families, and mine, in any case, wasn’t in a position to provide any help with this. We made our own rules. While it would have been impossible not to spend time alone in one another’s apartments (we lived four hours away from each other while dating and engaged) we kept a deliberate physical distance while in an apartment alone. We didn’t sit next to each other on the couch–much less cuddle!–while watch TV. Affection was limited to a hello/goodbye hug and kiss at the open door. We didn’t spend the night at each other’s apartments, even though those hotel bills were both pricey and annoying. We didn’t spend time just sitting in the car if we weren’t driving somewhere. Etc.

Long before we got involved, we also made the conscious decision not to date anyone until we were ready (or would be ready shortly, ie, nearly at the end of college) to get married. We weren’t interested in recreational dating; we wanted to find a spouse, which is the goal of dating for Catholics. Teens should be taught that this is the goal of dating, and a lot of other stuff will fall into place from there.

That having been said, if a couple can’t give each other a quick hug and kiss (with common sense in place–ie, at the afore-mentioned open door) without descending immediately into passion, then they probably shouldn’t be dating in the first place. Anyone with that little self-control is not mature enough to get married. Affection outside of sex is important, and learning how to give it is equally so. What happens when you reach a time in your marriage when you must, for good reason, abstain for a time? Never hugging, kissing, or touching in non-sexual ways will make such a time far more brutal on a marriage than necessary. This is, incidentally, why I’m opposed to some of the stuff I see in courtship-over-dating suggestions: if a couple can’t go out alone for dinner or a cup of coffee without sleeping together, then they are not mature enough to get married.

Thanks for sharing your personal story - and the specifics of your personal rules for physical affection.

I’m only 18, and just starting out in the relationship world (didn’t date while in high school, starting college this fall) and posts like this are really helpful in helping me lay out what I would like to see in a relationship with a guy.

My mom has done a great job explaining sex and the Catholic Church - we have “special time” one evening a week where we would talk, and read a book together. These ranged from anything like “Care and Keeping of You” by American Girl to “When God Writes Your Love Story” by Eric Ludy, and “Theology of the Body.” It opened up a lot of discussion and I really feel prepared going into the world. I know I haven’t learned it all by any means, but it was helpful to not just be given the basic physical implications of sex and tossed out on my own to figure out the rest. The best part of Mom’s discussions was, like someone has already pointed out, realizing that sex isn’t dirty or something to be ashamed of, but a beautiful gift from God in the right context.

Best of luck and God bless,

Chloe M.

 

[tabycat]

Do not forget that ‘talking to teens about sex’ starts when the teen is born. How the parents act toward each other and toward others of both sexes are telling the child about how to behave in both the sexual and the non-sexual area.

 

[Rachel126]

Thanks for sharing your personal story - and the specifics of your personal rules for physical affection.

I’m only 18, and just starting out in the relationship world (didn’t date while in high school, starting college this fall) and posts like this are really helpful in helping me lay out what I would like to see in a relationship with a guy.

My mom has done a great job explaining sex and the Catholic Church - we have “special time” one evening a week where we would talk, and read a book together. These ranged from anything like “Care and Keeping of You” by American Girl to “When God Writes Your Love Story” by Eric Ludy, and “Theology of the Body.” It opened up a lot of discussion and I really feel prepared going into the world. I know I haven’t learned it all by any means, but it was helpful to not just be given the basic physical implications of sex and tossed out on my own to figure out the rest. The best part of Mom’s discussions was, like someone has already pointed out, realizing that sex isn’t dirty or something to be ashamed of, but a beautiful gift from God in the right context.

Best of luck and God bless,

Chloe M.

I think it’s awesome that your mom did this with you. My parents didn’t talk about sex with me at all. My mom explained the whole menstruation thing to me when I was about eleven, and that included a very basic explanation of how you get pregnant (I already knew, from friends), and that was it. Nothing else was ever stated at home about sex. My parents and i were very close and we talked about virtually everything else, and they were loving, caring and supportive–but i think they were just so uncomfortable discussing it, they just avoided it. Hence, my “abstinence message” involved about two minutes of eighth grade CCD where the teacher told us “sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin and you can go to hell for it. Now, moving on…”

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

JackieMom:

Well, I’ve been married for almost 15 years and I still wouldn’t perform any PDA in front of my dad or father-in-law… Blech!

You didn’t kiss after the wedding, or at any time during the wedding reception?

I don’t see what’s shameful about that at all, unless you are making out and tearing at each other’s clothes…lol

Suslar:

When the teens at Church asked me that question of “well, how far can we go?”
my answer was: "Imagine your father is sitting on one end of the couch next to you and his father is on the other end and the two of you are in the middle. Exactly how far would you go in front of your parents?

The answers were “not far” and “probably wouldn’t do anything”

So I took the opportunity to remind them that God, their Heavenly Father IS there next to them every time there are with their boyfriend.

I heard that made an impression

Won’t “God, their Heavenly Father” be “there next to them every time” they are with their spouse, too?

If you train someone to believe something is per se gross, per se shameful, how do they flip the switch when they’re married? All of the sudden it goes from being disgusting to… whatever is the opposite of disgusting? I think this is part of the reason Catholics have so many hangups about sex, why they have such trouble establishing a happy sex life with their spouse. Read the family life or moral theology subforums for awhile and look at all the trouble we are having with sex inside of marriage.

I think they are better off hearing that intimacy, sex, etc. are wonderful things, but that’s why we must treat them wonderfully - not flippantly or casually.

 

[fpt]

You didn’t kiss after the wedding, or at any time during the wedding reception?

WHY?? THE CULTURALISM, THE CLANISM, THE COMMUNAUTARISM, THE PURITANISM, THE VICTORIANISM??? WHICH MENTALITIES??

Have you seen your own parents to make a french kiss? Yes or no, and if no, which reason? Why? In my humble opinion, it is a sign of a strange structure of intellectual approach concerning the corporeity, the physical affection in the couple, the superiority of social group on the couple and the family… etc.

In France, in the normal catholic family, in general, the puritanism, the victorianism, the jansenism, the rigorism, the strictism, the shame, the false prudishness, the false culturalism are not. It can be into some special families who had links with the U-K at the beginning of the XX century and are catholic persons who see the sin, everywhere. Those families in France are uptight, very moralist, very odd. In fract they are almost!!! No idea, I want to stay charitable.

I don’t see what’s shameful about that at all, unless you are making out and tearing at each other’s clothes…lol

Won’t “God, their Heavenly Father” be “there next to them every time” they are with their spouse, too?

If you train someone to believe something is per se gross, per se shameful, how do they flip the switch when they’re married? All of the sudden it goes from being disgusting to… whatever is the opposite of disgusting? I think this is part of the reason Catholics have so many hangups about sex, why they have such trouble establishing a happy sex life with their spouse. Read the family life or moral theology subforums for awhile and look at all the trouble we are having with sex inside of marriage.

I think they are better off hearing that intimacy, sex, etc. are wonderful things, but that’s why we must treat them wonderfully - not flippantly or casually.

 

[fpt]

Well, I’ve been married for almost 15 years and I still wouldn’t perform any PDA in front of my dad or father-in-law… Blech!

If you want to kiss your wife or your husband, she or he will say no no because you are in front of friends, of your children, of your parents, of your parents in law, or you are in the street, on the beach, in the cinema, in the car,** in reason of the shame of those contexts.** WHY? WHY? WHY? WHICH REASON? DID YOU DISCUSS OF THAT BEFORE THE WEDDING? HONESTLY, WITH MY FRENCH CULTURE, I HAVE DIFFICULTIES TO UNDERSTAND THE NORMAL LOGIC OF THIS TYPE OF NON PRACTICE OF KISS ON LIPS FOR A COUPLE IN FRONT OF, OR IN PUBLIC?

 

[bben15]

Maybe you should tell them that they shouldn’t do anything that they wouldn’t do in front of their own parents.

And she was right, once you start, you can’t stop. First, it’ll start as an innocent hug. Then, it’ll be a peck on the cheek. Then, it’ll keep going further and further until a bastard is conceived. I would tell them that they should hold off on “interacting” as such until they are intent upon marriage.

Since fornication is a mortal sin, you can go to hell if you’re not truly sorry for it. So, going to hell is a “real” reason.

I remember the sexual education I received while I was in middle school. No sexual education in high school. They showed us pictures of people affected with various STDs. It scared me to death! But then again, I was only 12. The point is, the main idea of the sexual education I received was abstinence.

Also, remind your children that in order to be abstinent, you must abstain from ALL forms of sexual activity.

There is a difference between fornication and sex. Sex is a beautiful thing that occurs between two validly married people. The point of sex is to produce offspring for God.

Fornication on the other hand, is not beautiful. It is a disgusting, ugly act that occurs solely for the pleasure of the act. Any bastard that is procured from this vile act is never wanted.

If I were you, I would focus more on God rather than sexually-transmitted-diseases and unplanned pregnancies. Displeasing God is worse than an STD.

I pray a rosary every day for fornication to end.

God Bless.

 

[JackieMom]

You didn’t kiss after the wedding, or at any time during the wedding reception?

I don’t see what’s shameful about that at all, unless you are making out and tearing at each other’s clothes…lol

.

We kissed at the wedding, yes, but that is customary. I don’t think it’s objectively shameful to kiss my husband in front of my dad, but he would be SO uncomfortable. I wouldn’t do that to him. He doesn’t want to see it, and I don’t want to embarrass him. Plus, it would be so awkward. No, thanks!