Target, Which Cut Workers' Hours and Doubled Workloads, Shows the Folly in

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Theo520 said:
Target raised wages. Then it cut workers’ hours and increased their workload
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Unfortunately people who previously advocated across the board raises in minimum wage are finding out the hard truth that the science of economics is a thing. The only thing that really leads to pay increases is that the employee’s labor becomes more valuable, either due to increased productivity or because there is an increased demand for labor. Businesses can’t arbitrarily raise wages because they will price themselves out of the market. Consequently, they have to cut costs elsewhere in predictable ways. This includes cutting hours, reducing or eliminating raises for workers who are more experienced and likely more productive, eliminating benefits, or automating.
 
Actually, the average car loan is America is approximately $504/month and more than 60 months in duration.

I know several hundred people who make approximately $50k/year.
 
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Bezos is only an example. I don’t care about his wealth or want it. I do believe that once I have one billion dollars that that’s enough. However, others live by: There’s no such thing as too much money. Something I do not live by. I’m sure I can get by with one billion.

When in history? Let’s see. My mother worked to buy our house for cash. My father worked to allow his wife to stay home to raise the kids. That was the 1950s when a middle class without credit cards saved money to buy a necessary appliance or water heater, for example. Luxuries were nice but not pursued. More money was nice, but usually saved for a ‘rainy day.’ Most moms were stay at home moms. That began to change in the 1970s when persons unknown artificially raised housing prices to force mom out into the workforce. This created various negative outcomes for the children like day care, latchkey kids and kids getting too much of their education from the TV.
 
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Many MANY Americans are driving cars they can’t afford; are drowning in credit card debt; and there are now well over 1 trillion $ in student loans extant.

Suffice it to say, “cost of living” really doesn’t hold up as a reason for financial problems when held up to the light of day.

For example, in 1978 a Cadillac was $10,000 and gasoline was about $1/gallon. Now a new Cadillac is $50k and gas is about $2.35/gallon.

Gasoline, adjusted for inflation, is close to its cheapest point in history.

The bugaboo of “cost of living” has been debunked to some extent.
 
gama232 said:
Bezos is only an example. I don’t care about his wealth or want it. I do believe that once I have one billion dollars that that’s enough. However, others live by: There’s no such thing as too much money. Something I do not live by. I’m sure I can get by with one billion.
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Do you even understand how Jeff Bezos made his money? He didn’t take a salary of billions in cash. He founded Amazon by investing his own money and developing a business model that was highly successful. As owner of the company, he held the major stake in it as it grew in value. As his company became a public company, he gave up shares of ownership so others could invest money to help Amazon grow. He received money in compensation for those shares. As Amazon continued to grow, shares became more valuable. The shares Bezos retained have grown in value to reach his $130 Billion in net worth. In the process he created hundreds of thousands of jobs and a platform where millions could sell their products. He never kept money from workers to build his billions. Investors view a share of Amazon stock worth a certain amount and that price determines the value of his share of Amazon. It’s basic finance.
 
gama232 said:
Bezos is only an example. I don’t care about his wealth or want it. I do believe that once I have one billion dollars that that’s enough. However, others live by: There’s no such thing as too much money. Something I do not live by. I’m sure I can get by with one billion.
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People speak about wealth without having any idea what they are talking about. Jeff Bezos may be worth $116 Billion dollars on paper, but you are missing the point on what that means. What it doesn’t mean is that Jeff has a Scrooge McDuck Money Vault that he dives into and goes swimming in everyday. The vast majority of his net worth is the stock that he owns in the companies that he runs. Essentially, it is the net worth of the portion of the company that he runs, and that money isn’t actually realized unless he sells his portion of the company. So essentially, his money is investment capital that keeps a behemoth company like Amazon able to pay the bills of the workers who are employed there, invest in capital equipment to run the business, invest in expansion of the business, etc. In addition, Amazon provides a platform for thousands of businesses to use to sell their goods. My sister for example uses Amazon as a platform to sell textbooks for homeschooling. If Jeff Bezos just pulled his money out of Amazon, the company would fold, tens of thousands of direct labor workers would be out of a job, and the net impact on other businesses which rely on the services his company provides would be incalculable.
 
VonDerTann said:
Many MANY Americans are driving cars they can’t afford; are drowning in credit card debt; and there are now well over 1 trillion $ in student loans extant.

Suffice it to say, “cost of living” really doesn’t hold up as a reason for financial problems when held up to the light of day.

For example, in 1978 a Cadillac was $10,000 and gasoline was about $1/gallon. Now a new Cadillac is $50k and gas is about $2.35/gallon.

Gasoline, adjusted for inflation, is close to its cheapest point in history.

The bugaboo of “cost of living” has been debunked to some extent.
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Not really. See here this excerpt from the Federal Reserve’s annual household survey:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/publ...-in-2018-dealing-with-unexpected-expenses.htm
 
Unfortunately zzyzx you are proving one of my points to some extent; the other is simply not addressed.

First, many Americans are broke. Your link clearly confirms that.

As to the second - that cost of living is not to blame - the link does not address. All it says is basically “people have no money,” without going into the why.

Now, ask yourself: Is Vondertann wrong, when he says Americans have too much student debt? Too much auto debt? Too much credit card debt?

Weren’t we better off when, say,
Car loans and credit cards were less freely available than they are now?
 
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It reminds me of Amazon boasting about raising the starting wage to $15 and then snatched away monthly bonuses and stock options. Corporations are happy to shine the golden virtue lantern on themselves while quietly retaining or increasing their bottom line.
 
Because that’s what corporations are supposed to do - increase their bottom line.

Seriously, has anyone here actually run a business successfully for any length of time?
 
Theo520 said:
In the peasant class of the free market developed world, they have sufficient food and creature comforts that make a middle ages Lord green with envy.
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Defend wealth gaps, promote unbridled capitalism, do whatever you wish. But I beg you, please do not claim we have a free market.
 
Well, it’s certainly moreso than most of the world.

While we’re at it, why does Keen think it’s a myth that people are paid what they’re worth?
 
Gonna have to wait. I’m at work on my break. 🙂

To claim we have a free market is ridiculous. What we have is an oligopolistic system of state capitalism. Please don’t throw dirt on the free market by claiming our rotten system qualifies as one.
 
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Our rotten system?

That same system that has brought bounteous material riches; wonder drugs; and technology indistinguishable from magic to essentially everyone living here, at ridiculously low cost?

Where, EXACTLY would you rather live?

And again, it’s certainly freer than anyplace else you can identify.
 
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Those things are the product of a mixed economy if we’re being historically accurate. You’re praising a Keynesian system.

And please don’t pull the “America, love it or leave it” stuff with me.
 
Yes, I absolutely am going to “pull” that until you give us the benefit of telling where you think has a superior system.

I mean, you said ours was “rotten.”
 
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Very well. I will answer in my own fashion.

My roots are deep. I am a figurative son of Patrick Henry, the anti-Federalists, Daniel Shays. My American heroes are Russell Kirk, Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin, John Taylor, Lysander Spooner. I love my home, Michigan. I do not love the empire, I do not love the state. I love liberty. And I shall not call a rotten apple fresh. God bless.
 
Ah, that’s not an answer. Not really, anyway.

You said our system is rotten.

Rotten? It’s a model for the entire world.

Perfect? Nope.

Rotten? Please. Millions of people in the last hundred years have given their entire lives; risked death; left homes and families; and traveled thousands of miles - sometimes on foot; raft; etc. -
To get here.

Until you see how most of the world lives firsthand, with due respect, you’re in no position to call our system “rotten.” Certainly when you clearly can’t name a single place or system that is superior.

I’m done. Bye.
 
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