Tax cuts for the rich and tax havens are structures of sin

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On another note. Prior to this corona thing, the economy was supposed to be booming right.

We were at 3% or so GDP growth, stock market was at an all time high. Who was benefiting them most? Very low income earners weren’t getting rich with the 401ks going way up, they don’t have retirement accounts.

But the GDP wasn’t really growing at 3.5 %. The federal gov was spending 1 tillion more than it was receiving in revenue, the GDP is about 20 trillion, so if you take the 1 trillion of deficit spending out of the GDP we were really at negative GDP growth, but wealth was still being created as stock prices rose. Artificial wealth but that is what folks like to brag about.

Where is the majority of all this stimulus money going now? Certainly not to the average Joe.
 
JimG said:
I would not say that every ‘tax haven’ is a ‘structure if sin.’ Charitable giving, including giving to the church, is deductible from income and benefits charities and society generally.
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And, to continue that, the “tax haven” might have been enacted to encourage investment in something that serves some social benefit.

For example, a few years ago Congress gave favorable tax treatment to “opportunity funds,” mutual funds that invest in businesses in low-income areas.

So a given “tax haven” might have been created for some positive social goal, not just to make the rich richer.
 
Questions/observations:
  1. Who’s rich? Is it defined by earnings? I know lots of people who make a very nice living but spend every dollar of it on cars, a big house, etc., yet have next to no real wealth. Is it defined by, say, net worth? Statistically most millionaires do not live in huge houses or drive luxury cars (cite is The Millionaire Next Door, a wonderful and eye opening book). It hardly seems “fair” to call them sinners when the profligate waste of the “buy luxury everything on credit”-crowd isn’t addressed.
  2. As Ronald Reagan once said, the best social program is a job. Far more than divisive things like “redistribution” AKA stealing can help the poor, and like it or not “the rich” are often as not rich because they are most often the job creators in society. Doing so entails the most risk of personal financial ruin.
 
Between Federal and State income tax and FICA, the typical middle class worker pays more than a third of his/her income. High income earners pay still more.
 
Math doesn’t add up. I work over 800 returns every year. Income earners between poverty line to close to 1 million bucks. Middle income earners dont pay 1/3.
 
You apparently do not work in NY.

State income tax, property tax, school tax, taxes to cross bridges $10-20 each time, local tax, dont forget hidden taxes and fees as well. NY you have to get your car inspected every year etc.

Depending on deductions it can be well over 1/3 and close to 1/2 or more.
 
Taxes are taxes.

Its like when my wife spends money, it all comes out of the same bank account.
 
the pope addressed “extreme poverty”, please define that term and if you think we have extreme poverty in the USA?
If extreme poverty exists amid riches which are also extreme it is because we have allowed a gap to grow to become the largest in history.’
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We do.

Extreme poverty is one of those things where you know it when you see it.

I’ve known communities where people live without phones. I knew a woman who lived in one such community who when she washed clothing she took the clothes out in the middle of a load and put a new load into the dirty soapy water to save on the cost of soap.

A really eye opening book came out a while back entitled “nickeled and dimed.” It was a journalist trying to survive in really low paying jobs like hotel cleaning lady; waitress; and greeter at Walmart. Very eye opening.

Grinding poverty is just a horrible horrible thing.
 
Your talking about people who don’t need a tax break - will never miss the money - will never skip a beat in their lives over this and have more money that they know what to do with . But ya lets give them a tax break they sure need it unlike the people who struggle daily.
 
BT3241 said:
Your talking about people who don’t need a tax break - will never miss the money - will never skip a beat in their lives over this and have more money that they know what to do with . But ya lets give them a tax break they sure need it unlike the people who struggle daily.
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What classifies a person as “rich?” I ask this question a lot, but nobody ever seems to want to answer it. Also, what is the “fair” tax rate on that person (name an actual %).
 
VonDerTann said:
We do.

Extreme poverty is one of those things where you know it when you see it.

I’ve known communities where people live without phones. I knew a woman who lived in one such community who when she washed clothing she took the clothes out in the middle of a load and put a new load into the dirty soapy water to save on the cost of soap.

A really eye opening book came out a while back entitled “nickeled and dimed.” It was a journalist trying to survive in really low paying jobs like hotel cleaning lady; waitress; and greeter at Walmart. Very eye opening.

Grinding poverty is just a horrible horrible thing.
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A phone is the difference? they can be had for free

 
Why not get out and see the world?

–a world where poeple sometimes live in tunnels and under bridges?

–a world where the demand at food pantries has risen 600% this month?

–a world where similac-brand and other infant formula is sometimes kept under lock and key in grocery stores (suggesting it gets stolen all the time)?

–a world where - like I said - people reuse their wash water?

I am as pro-USA and as pro-hard work as they come - but in light of the literally millions of job losses in the last 2 weeks, I find your post awfully tin-eared and tone-deaf. The fact that you’re quoting a 2-year old article is also noteworthy

Anyone who’s visited, say, parts of the Deep South; Appalachia; or the Adirondack mountains of NY, knows that extreme poverty is sadly not rare in this land of ours.

You don’t know what poverty is till you see someone use krazy glue to hold their teeth in their mouth. I saw that done with my own two eyes.
 
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Honestly, grinding poverty in the United States should be non existent. There is WAY more than enough resources for everyone.
Geography becomes a problem, such as living in places that do not have enough work. Distribution of resources is a problem. Waste.

But the biggest problem contributing to poverty in the US is a lack of virtue.

What are virtues? The practical application or practice of things like creativity, resourcefulness, patience, fortitude, determination, incentive.
Millions of people are stuck in generational vices that do not allow them to make simple progress in education and work. It’s difficult to blame the children who do not know any better, but these are things that can be solved. We are not helpless against virtue deserts.
When people collecting benefits have cable tv and top of the line cell phones, something is terribly wrong with priorities. And before you say this doesn’t happen, I’m going to observe that not only does it happen, it is in fact rampant, that people collecting benefits are also consuming huge amounts of things that ought to be luxuries.

At the same time, we still have the mission to feed people all who are hungry, even if we don’t think they “deserve” it. Hungry is hungry.
We also have a responsibility to be honest in finding the root causes of these problems and solving these problems.
 
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Here is where I come from:
I mentor a young black man who will not make it through school and it will be a minor miracle if he holds down an adult job.

What has gone wrong? It’s very simple.
He has spent almost his entire life in front of a screen passively consuming entertainment of all kinds. His brain and personality are stunted and deprived of initiative, creativity, fortitude, patience, etc…Name a virtue and he is deprived of it.

None of this is his fault. He is a victim of institutionalized sloth. His Mother loves him very much, and she knows how to punish him, but she was not able to instill the ability to get off the couch.
It is heartbreaking and no amount of denial will solve this problem going forward.
 
I don’t see it as a lack of resources. We certainly have plenty of that. Lack of virtue? Hmmm…well, maybe as you define it, but that maybe skates close to the edge of “the poor are poor because they don’t work hard.”

Poverty is complicated. Sometimes it’s lack of opportunities…or role models…or broken homes. Sometimes sadly it is laziness.

Some of the poorest people I’ve ever met have often been the most hardworking and most honest folks I’ve ever met (I’m thinking of the folks who reused wash water).

Obviously i have had way too much opportunity to interact with some really poor people in my life. It is very sad.

Poverty can also be a tremendous motivator. I was poor growing up, so am often sensitive to poverty issues. Having been there, God willing, I am never, EVER going back.
 
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